Uno-X Pro Cycling Team

[BlueRoads]

First of all, I don't get why you assume it would be "mediocre" riders?

As stated, this project ONLY works, because the quality is there in the Norwegian/Danish rider base.

I agree there are differences to Basque teams, in terms of the cultural significance, but we do actually have our own culture up here in the North too, Norway and Denmark has a shared history - and culture - of over a 1,000 years.

It's not a contentious culture, sure, but it doesn't have to be, to be worth while supporting it.

Look at it this way:

Ineos is investing heavily in British sports, because Ratcliffe loves Britain and wants to support British sports, so I don't see why the Reitan family doing the same in Scandinavia is any different.

Mediocre might sound harsher than I meant it. None of these riders is mediocre, but mediocre in terms of professional riders.
Maybe you expect all the best Danish and Norwegian riders to go there - but since their policy seems to be to have comparatively cheap riders I don't think they will get all the best Scandinavians from all the other teams, but add some riders from these countries. If you simply took the best riders you wouldn't restrict yourself to certain nationalities.

I doubt Ratcliffe supports Ineos because he loves Britain so much, otherwise he would at least pay his taxes there, but that's really a completely different topic.
In general Ineos pick some very good riders no matter where they are from, but yes, they as well prefer to have a British Tour winner - which I don't like either. Did you get the impression I'm an Ineos fan?

Really, I have called this nationalism annoying quite often in these forums, so I don't think you get an impression I think it's good in other cases. We will see how Uno act in the future. If they restrict themselves to riders from these two countries I dislike that very much, but maybe they will change their policy.

About the cultural thing, did you even try to understand what I was trying to say in that regard?

 

[RedheadDane]

Really, I have called this nationalism annoying quite often in these forums, so I don't think you get an impression I think it's good in other cases.

What was it? Danes are supposed to cheer for Slovenians?

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Mediocre might sound harsher than I meant it. None of these riders is mediocre, but mediocre in terms of professional riders.
Maybe you expect all the best Danish and Norwegian riders to go there - but since their policy seems to be to have comparatively cheap riders I don't think they will get all the best Scandinavians from all the other teams, but add some riders from these countries. If you simply took the best riders you wouldn't restrict yourself to certain nationalities.

I doubt Ratcliffe supports Ineos because he loves Britain so much, otherwise he would at least pay his taxes there, but that's really a completely different topic.
In general Ineos pick some very good riders no matter where they are from, but yes, they as well prefer to have a British Tour winner - which I don't like either. Did you get the impression I'm an Ineos fan?

Really, I have called this nationalism annoying quite often in these forums, so I don't think you get an impression I think it's good in other cases. We will see how Uno act in the future. If they restrict themselves to riders from these two countries I dislike that very much, but maybe they will change their policy.

About the cultural thing, did you even try to understand what I was trying to say in that regard?

Not talking about Ineos in a narrow cycling sense, they are in all kinds of British sports.

I know Ratcliffe has the tax issues, but nonetheless, all the heavy investments Ineos are making into British sports, are not at all justified by dividends for the Ineos businesses.

Sports sponsoring (with a few exceptions like F1 and tennis) is mainly a worthwhile proposition for companies, that have a significant BTC market to care for, and that is not Ineos..... at least not to a degree that would justify the very heavy investments into sports.

Whether it's "for the love of British sports" - or possibly "I'm rich and this builds up my ego", I obviously can't say, having never spoken to Ratcliffe, but the large sponsorships are definitely not "good business".

As for your last question, the answer is "yes".

 

[RedheadDane]

Actually, something I've just been wondering; just like Euskaltel is "Basque riders, or riders with some sort of Basque connection" (to the point where they have a Belarusian rider), could it actually end up being something similar here? Norwegian/Danish riders, or riders with some sort of Norwegian/Danish connection.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Actually, something I've just been wondering; just like Euskaltel is "Basque riders, or riders with some sort of Basque connection" (to the point where they have a Belarusian rider), could it actually end up being something similar here? Norwegian/Danish riders, or riders with some sort of Norwegian/Danish connection.

Swedish and Finnish riders are a natural fit, but there are only 3-4 around that might be good enough.

However, as soon as it is a rider that doesn't speak "Scandinavian", it changes a lot.

Suddenly all team communication - both written and verbal - has to be in a universal language like English, and it suddenly becomes important that all the team staff can communicate well in English.

It's not a choice you make for the sake of signing 1-2 riders - it's an overall strategy change, that completely changes how the team works on a day to day basis.

 

[RedheadDane]

Suddenly all team communication - both written and verbal - has to be in a universal language like English, and it suddenly becomes important that all the team staff can communicate well in English.

Or... they could just teach those "outsiders" Norwegian. I'm pretty sure every rider on FDJ has to speak a little bit of French, if Valter could go from barely speaking French during UAE Tour to - I assume - speak enough French to somehow, in a way, ride as their back-up GC rider (with the communication with the team that requires) during the Giro, so can for example a Spanish rider learn Norwegian!

 

[Armchair cyclist]

Justice is not relevant here, no laws are broken.

So justice is only about laws? You will have no problem with the laws of Bahrain or the UAE then, and will consider them just.

Employment law in Norway is not the same as in the EU, as stated in a reply to OlavEH. Norway is not bound to the freedom of movement regulations of the EU - they only have such regulations in place, for citizens of the other 4 Nordic countries.

I'm not sure that you are right there: The free movement of persons is one of the core rights guaranteed in the European Economic Area (EEA), the extended Internal Market which unites all the EU Member States and three EEA EFTA States – Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. It ... gives citizens of the 30 EEA countries the opportunity to live, work, establish business and study in any of these countries. The legislation ... aims at eliminating ... any discrimination on the basis of nationality.

The rest is just you maintaining, that you ONLY want to apply moral judgement to this narrow issue, but not to anything else in cycling -

No, the rest is about me maintaining that I have no interest in discussing Bahrain, Israel, UAE or any other regime in a thread about a Norwegian team. I repeat, I have not attempted to justify anything about those entities here. I think I have, and probably will again, discuss them elsewhere.

But as you continue to ignore the substance of anything I say, and appear unwilling to respond to my suggestions that your argument is inconsistent, I have nothing more to say on it to you for now. If you wish to have a discussion off thread, PM me.

 

[ciranda]

Ok objectively at the moment this team is about Bingoal level. Think the praise for getting people in early breaks in E3 and Scheldeprijs is a little overboard. All the danish guys have sucked incredibly, there's been no results in hilly races except Turkey and Giro Baby. Hoelgaard is quality for sure, there's a couple of ok sprinters and then it's like fifteen plus guys that make up numbers. Good signs, ok, but there's some way to even Wanty/Qhubeka level and you can't get there with the stated policy.

 

[RedheadDane]

Hoelgaard is quality for sure

Which one?

 

[ciranda]

Which one?

The one with the good results.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Good signs, ok, but there's some way to even Wanty/Qhubeka level and you can't get there with the stated policy.

If they sign Kristoff and Bystrøm they are already better than Wanty in my eyes.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

So justice is only about laws? You will have no problem with the laws of Bahrain or the UAE then, and will consider them just.
I'm not sure that you are right there: The free movement of persons is one of the core rights guaranteed in the European Economic Area (EEA), the extended Internal Market which unites all the EU Member States and three EEA EFTA States – Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. It ... gives citizens of the 30 EEA countries the opportunity to live, work, establish business and study in any of these countries. The legislation ... aims at eliminating ... any discrimination on the basis of nationality.


No, the rest is about me maintaining that I have no interest in discussing Bahrain, Israel, UAE or any other regime in a thread about a Norwegian team. I repeat, I have not attempted to justify anything about those entities here. I think I have, and probably will again, discuss them elsewhere.

But as you continue to ignore the substance of anything I say, and appear unwilling to respond to my suggestions that your argument is inconsistent, I have nothing more to say on it to you for now. If you wish to have a discussion off thread, PM me.

Dude, you were the one talking laws, so in THIS context, obviously "justice is only about laws".

If you want a larger philosophical debate on the concept of justice, as it pertains to humanity as a whole, feel free to write me a PM.

As for the Norwegian laws, I am 100 % positive, that for EEA citizens outside the 5 Nordic countries, the rules are different. - For instance you are required to register with the police inside 3 months.
You are ALLOWED residency, but you do not have the same rights as you do in a EU country, and that extends to Norwegian companies not being bound by EU employment law, and not being obligated to hire EU citizens.

As for you having nothing more to say to me:

THANKS

 

[Broccolidwarf]

If they sign Kristoff and Bystrøm they are already better than Wanty in my eyes.

Yeah, Kristoff is a shoe in for the team.

However they need more stage race riders in the squad as well.

 

[Roku]

No, not at all. It's a complete outsider's view. Feel free to correct me.

Just a different point of view. I'm not a local either, but from another region in Spain. I don't particularly regard the Basque Country as kind of historically "oppresed", but it's an outsider's view as well. Of course, you have the dictatorship in the 20th Century but I don't feel, from the outside, they were especially oppresed compared to other regions.

I read some days ago a piece of news stating Basque population desire for independence was historically low.

It's true what you mention about the perils of globalization, but that doesn't affect only the Basque Country.

 

[Norbea]

If you grow up in Tromsø, such as Leknessund, the closest thing to a cycling team would be some guys having a midlife crisis and meeting up after work hours for a ride.

People growing up in Central Europe have a shorter way to be recruited and have more options. Norwegians needs to get pretty good results before any French, Belgian or Spanish team would ever look their way. It took a Hushovd to fight his way with French directors to even be considered to captain a team. Uno-X is giving a great opportunity to riders who otherwise would have a hard time finding a place in a team on the European continent. I can fully understand why Uno-X would focus more on nationalities in recruitment than other teams. The whole purpose of Uno-X in the first place was to give talented young Scandinavian men and women that wasn't picked up by the big teams in Europe a chance to make a living as a pro biker.

 

[Norbea]

However, as soon as it is a rider that doesn't speak "Scandinavian", it changes a lot.

It might be hard enough already for Norwegians and Danes to communicate and as most of them are used to compete internationally it wouldn't be a problem to speak English.

As Uno-X moves up the choices in quality riders will narrow and they most likely have to look outside Scandinavia. Much like HiTech had to when they had a Norwegian woman's WT-team. There are more talent to chose from in Norway and Denmark on the mens side, but if they are to pick up points they probably can't limit themselves for to long.

 

[Norbea]

Which one?

There is actually 3 of the brothers competing at high international level. One of them (Stian) is a long distance xc-skiier and has several podiums in the ski classics races.

 

[RedheadDane]

There is actually 3 of the brothers competing at high international level. One of them (Stian) is a long distance xc-skiier and has several podiums in the ski classics races.

I don't suppose he's had that many cycling results.

 

[Norbea]

I don't suppose he's had that many cycling results.

I am sure he is pretty good on a bike too, but I'd give it a second thought before signing him to a WT-team

 

[RedheadDane]

I am sure he is pretty good on a bike too, but I'd give it a second thought before signing him to a WT-team

Apparently coming from some random sport is a good way to become a good pro cyclist these days...

 

[OlavEH]

Yeah, Kristoff is a shoe in for the team.

However they need more stage race riders in the squad as well.

If they gradually increase their commitment each year towards 2023 and 2024, and at least mainly prefer Scandinavian riders, a team mainly bullt for the classics would be the most natural evolvement the next 2-3 years. Signing Kristoff and Bystrøm and keeping Hoelgaard and Tiller would give them at pretty good team in the classics. And in 2023 it could be possible to sign at least one of Pedersen and Kragh Andersen.

In a longer perspective more attention could be paid to the stage races. Foss and Leknessund have contracts until 2023, and won't be available until 2024. In addition you have the Johannessen twins who performed well in the Baby Giro now, but are still young.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

In a longer perspective more attention could be paid to the stage races. Foss and Leknessund have contracts until 2023, and won't be available until 2024. In addition you have the Johannessen twins who performed well in the Baby Giro now, but are still young.

I think also Charmig (born 98) and Idar Andersen (born 99) are interesting riders for races like this, that could very well turn into solid WT-riders in one week stage races, but yes there are no doubt that some quality needs to be brought in to be competitive in mountains and harder hilly terrain.

 

[RedheadDane]

And in 2023 it could be possible to sign at least one of Pedersen and Kragh Andersen.

They might even sign one of each.
Or find another Pedersen somewhere... I'm sure there are a bunch of Pedersens hiding around in Denmark.

 

[OlavEH]

I think also Charmig (born 98) and Idar Andersen (born 99) are interesting riders for races like this, that could very well turn into solid WT-riders in one week stage races, but yes there are no doubt that some quality needs to be brought in to be competitive in mountains and harder hilly terrain.

Yep, that's true. Strange, for the 20 years I've followed cycling, we (Norway) mainly have had one day riders and sprinters. And the classic riders have almost solely been best in the cobbled classics. First Arvesen, then Hushovd, Boasson Hagen and Kristoff. And there have been close to none GC riders of quality. Then suddenly now, there are many climbing and GC talents. Foss, Leknessund, 2xHalland Johannessen and Andersen. At least two or three of these could be a natural core in a Norwegian WT-team in the middle of the 2020s.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

If they gradually increase their commitment each year towards 2023 and 2024, and at least mainly prefer Scandinavian riders, a team mainly bullt for the classics would be the most natural evolvement the next 2-3 years. Signing Kristoff and Bystrøm and keeping Hoelgaard and Tiller would give them at pretty good team in the classics. And in 2023 it could be possible to sign at least one of Pedersen and Kragh Andersen.

In a longer perspective more attention could be paid to the stage races. Foss and Leknessund have contracts until 2023, and won't be available until 2024. In addition you have the Johannessen twins who performed well in the Baby Giro now, but are still young.

Agreed, though there are some riders they could pick up for 2022.

Fuglsang is the obvious choice, but he will be quite expensive, and would probably need to be sure the team is going to the Tour in 2022 - so will probably take a co-sponsor coming in.

But there are other, cheaper options about, for instance they should sign Hellemose, who got 5th at the baby Giro (Johannessens got 2nd and 8th), they should also move up Charmig to the main squad.

for 2023, young guns like Kron and Skjelmose may still be possible financially, despite both currently being on a steep upward trajectory. Vingegaard is probably out of reach, as he is on track to becoming a GC captain for Jumbo in future.