Up to 31 athletes could be banned after Beijing retests

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/36373805

Yeah, I'll bet the she's totally shocked that she was caught.

Russia was once a leading power in the field of doping innovation.
That was long ago though.
Seems like they're lagging far behind these days.

That was the Soviet Union, not just Russia. It's interesting that they skipped London testing, and went back to Beijing, 8 years ago. Wouldn't it make more sense to re-test more recent events? Or are they going back that far on purpose, to prove a point? When is Paula Radcliffe getting her comeuppance? Did Mo Farah ever get tested? What about the Americans? Who won the most medals in 2008 and 2012? Why weren't Gatlin and Gay banned for life? Gatlin was caught more than Di Luca and he gets to race in Rio and will probably get a couple medals, if form holds true. Why didn't the USOC get banned from prior Olympics, after it was revealed there was a massive coverup during the 90's? Perhaps it went back further, with Carl Lewis failing tests but having those tests swept under the rug and he consequently ended up competing in Seoul and winning a gold (after Johnson was used as a scapegoat and DQ'd). The double standards and the hypocrisy is quite nauseating.

BTW, this isn't meant for you, this is just a general response to this ongoing 'investigation.' It looks more like a, well if I get to throw enough mud at the guy, he won't be able to stand up and throw mud back, so I'll keep throwing it.

good post. I agree.
This whole thing has the word "agenda" written all over it.

The anti-Russia sentiments of course go way back.
From what I can tell, USOC was flooded with anti-USSR sentiments in the 60s, 70s, 80s, but were making friends with East and especially West Germany.
Also, and I'm no doubt oversimplifying here, but I think USOC has always had a strong lobby within the IOC.
I wouldn't be surprised if IOC is still populated with some old guys (maybe some old USOC folks) from back in the days who think they still have some scores to settle.

To clarify the post you replied to, what I meant to say is: it just seems like Russia currently have one of the poorest doping programs around, completely unable to let their athletes fly below the radar, which shouldn't be too difficult. Drug testing is still just an IQ test.
I think countries like Britain, USA and Germany are far ahead in that department. Better organized. And of course more protected, too.

Britain always had a strong track program, particularly in running, but to my amateur eyes, i was shocked as to what a drastic improvement they made in the events they weren't really picked to do as well as they did in London. Americans doing well is never a surprise. China made huge gains in 2004 and 2008 (home games). Britain in 2012 (home games). Russia in 2014 (home games). Is it a coincidence?

You are right about the US, Britain and German having better programs and more protection (more money as well, despite Russian oil, IMO) but to me it seems like Germany has underperformed a bit at recent Olympics. It seems like they had more success as East and West Germany than a unified Germany. Perhaps they dialed back on their 'programs,' and perhaps football really blossoming in the past few years with Germany developing this endless line of talent has taken a hit on sports like track and field so who knows. Perhaps this is why Seppelt went after the Russians. He refuses to answer some of my tweets though about doping in the Bundesliga and some articles that came out of the BBC and NYT in 2013 about West Germany having a similar state run doping program that the East had in the 60's 70's and 80's. Of course, nobody is obligated to answer to anyone, particularly strangers on social media, but i'd love to see and hear his take on that.

 

[luckyboy]

Only the Russian names leaked? That is some shock

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re:

Only the Russian names leaked? That is some shock

Not leaked, are they? Who are they?

ROC announced 14 without naming them and according to the Russian Olympic Committee, the athletes in question will be named when ‘B’ samples are also tested and disciplinary proceedings have begun.

Here's a report on that http://www.the42.ie/14-russian-athletes-fail-beijing-re-tests-2787336-May2016/

 

[luckyboy]

Where did those 14 names come from? I have read either they are leaked or the ROC announced the names but don't know which is true..

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Only the Russian names leaked? That is some shock

Not leaked, are they? Who are they?

ROC announced 14 without naming them and according to the Russian Olympic Committee, the athletes in question will be named when ‘B’ samples are also tested and disciplinary proceedings have begun.

Here's a report on that http://www.the42.ie/14-russian-athletes-fail-beijing-re-tests-2787336-May2016/

All 14 have been named already. Among them is Chicherova, the London 2012 Olympic champion.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Only the Russian names leaked? That is some shock

Not leaked, are they? Who are they?

ROC announced 14 without naming them and according to the Russian Olympic Committee, the athletes in question will be named when ‘B’ samples are also tested and disciplinary proceedings have begun.

Here's a report on that http://www.the42.ie/14-russian-athletes-fail-beijing-re-tests-2787336-May2016/

All 14 have been named already. Among them is Chicherova, the London 2012 Olympic champion.

More to the point; how were the samples selected for re-test? by name? by event or random?

At guess it was "pre-selected":

Re-tests were conducted following work between the IOC and the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA), with the focus on athletes who could compete at the 2016 Games, which begin on 5 August.

 

[sniper]

well *** me.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re: Re:

That was the Soviet Union, not just Russia.

At the end of the day, the Soviet Union was Russia with a few vassal states added.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re:

Where did those 14 names come from? I have read either they are leaked or the ROC announced the names but don't know which is true..

I now see that Tass named them, or so it says here. http://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/summer/beijing-retests-outed-russian-champ-1.3597389

It was a Russian inside job to release the names at this stage in defiance of ROC.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Where did those 14 names come from? I have read either they are leaked or the ROC announced the names but don't know which is true..

I now see that Tass named them, or so it says here. http://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/summer/beijing-retests-outed-russian-champ-1.3597389

It was a Russian inside job to release the names at this stage in defiance of ROC.

They won't be at Rio, so not sure how it's defiance. It would have been one thing if they had a Rodchenkov-like person that outed the USOC, for example.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

Where did those 14 names come from? I have read either they are leaked or the ROC announced the names but don't know which is true..

I now see that Tass named them, or so it says here. http://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/summer/beijing-retests-outed-russian-champ-1.3597389

It was a Russian inside job to release the names at this stage in defiance of ROC.

They won't be at Rio, so not sure how it's defiance. It would have been one thing if they had a Rodchenkov-like person that outed the USOC, for example.

The only point I make is that ROC said it would release the names after the B tests, but Tass has gone ahead anyway. I don't know where their information came from, but presumably they thought it appropriate to release them even though ROC said it would not do so at present. There's no other implication in my remark.

 

[wansteadimp]

Re: Re:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/36373805

Yeah, I'll bet the she's totally shocked that she was caught.

Russia was once a leading power in the field of doping innovation.
That was long ago though.
Seems like they're lagging far behind these days.

That was the Soviet Union, not just Russia. It's interesting that they skipped London testing, and went back to Beijing, 8 years ago. Wouldn't it make more sense to re-test more recent events? Or are they going back that far on purpose, to prove a point? When is Paula Radcliffe getting her comeuppance? Did Mo Farah ever get tested? What about the Americans? Who won the most medals in 2008 and 2012? Why weren't Gatlin and Gay banned for life? Gatlin was caught more than Di Luca and he gets to race in Rio and will probably get a couple medals, if form holds true. Why didn't the USOC get banned from prior Olympics, after it was revealed there was a massive coverup during the 90's? Perhaps it went back further, with Carl Lewis failing tests but having those tests swept under the rug and he consequently ended up competing in Seoul and winning a gold (after Johnson was used as a scapegoat and DQ'd). The double standards and the hypocrisy is quite nauseating.

BTW, this isn't meant for you, this is just a general response to this ongoing 'investigation.' It looks more like a, well if I get to throw enough mud at the guy, he won't be able to stand up and throw mud back, so I'll keep throwing it.

Re Why not London, I think that the Statute of Limitations is 8 years so they leave it as near as possible to that date so that the latest advances in detection can be used. So the retesting for London should be done in 4 years time.

 

[kielbasa]

Re: Re:

Where did those 14 names come from? I have read either they are leaked or the ROC announced the names but don't know which is true..

I now see that Tass named them, or so it says here. http://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/summer/beijing-retests-outed-russian-champ-1.3597389

It was a Russian inside job to release the names at this stage in defiance of ROC.

They won't be at Rio, so not sure how it's defiance. It would have been one thing if they had a Rodchenkov-like person that outed the USOC, for example.

The only point I make is that ROC said it would release the names after the B tests, but Tass has gone ahead anyway. I don't know where their information came from, but presumably they thought it appropriate to release them even though ROC said it would not do so at present. There's no other implication in my remark.

So now that ROC won't be getting paid, do they have to produce positive B samples?

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/36373805

Yeah, I'll bet the she's totally shocked that she was caught.

Russia was once a leading power in the field of doping innovation.
That was long ago though.
Seems like they're lagging far behind these days.

That was the Soviet Union, not just Russia. It's interesting that they skipped London testing, and went back to Beijing, 8 years ago. Wouldn't it make more sense to re-test more recent events? Or are they going back that far on purpose, to prove a point? When is Paula Radcliffe getting her comeuppance? Did Mo Farah ever get tested? What about the Americans? Who won the most medals in 2008 and 2012? Why weren't Gatlin and Gay banned for life? Gatlin was caught more than Di Luca and he gets to race in Rio and will probably get a couple medals, if form holds true. Why didn't the USOC get banned from prior Olympics, after it was revealed there was a massive coverup during the 90's? Perhaps it went back further, with Carl Lewis failing tests but having those tests swept under the rug and he consequently ended up competing in Seoul and winning a gold (after Johnson was used as a scapegoat and DQ'd). The double standards and the hypocrisy is quite nauseating.

BTW, this isn't meant for you, this is just a general response to this ongoing 'investigation.' It looks more like a, well if I get to throw enough mud at the guy, he won't be able to stand up and throw mud back, so I'll keep throwing it.

Re Why not London, I think that the Statute of Limitations is 8 years so they leave it as near as possible to that date so that the latest advances in detection can be used. So the retesting for London should be done in 4 years time.

They did not skip London.

From the CBC report above

The IOC also retested 250 samples from the London Olympics and is still awaiting those results.

The retests targeted athletes who competed in Beijing or London and were hoping to participate in Rio in August.

The IOC stores Olympic doping samples for 10 years to reanalyze them when newer methods become available.

 

[PremierAndrew]

23 out of those 250 retested samples, which were previously 'clean', are now positive. Almost 10%...

 

[WillemS]

Re:

23 out of those 250 retested samples, which were previously 'clean', are now positive. Almost 10%...

The percentage is probably that high because those retests were targeted, not random. However, I would still stay that 10% warrants the retesting of a lot of other samples as well.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

23 out of those 250 retested samples, which were previously 'clean', are now positive. Almost 10%...

The percentage is probably that high because those retests were targeted, not random. However, I would still stay that 10% warrants the retesting of a lot of other samples as well.

Testimonies from the late 60s and 70s are really instructive.
Multiple olympic athletes, coaches and physiologists from different countries and different disciplines from that era are on the record stating that you cannot compete clean, because (nearly) everybody around them is doping.
Then you ask yourself: since the 70s, what indications are there that the IOC have actually policed the sport in any kind of serious way? The answer is none.
My guess is there has not been a single clean podium at any of the Games in the last 40 or 50 years or so.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

23 out of those 250 retested samples, which were previously 'clean', are now positive. Almost 10%...

10% is still a very, very low number.

 

[JetSet]

8 of the 23 are Russians, from 3 different sports BBC are reporting this morning.

Pete

 

[Benotti69]

It would be amusing if Vino was one of the positives

 

[BullsFan22]

Of course, all the headlines want to make sure that it's the Russians are mentioned first and foremost. The previous list of 2008 positives only focused on the Russians and to my knowledge, only Russian names were made public. Do we know the individuals from other countries on that list?

 

[wrinklyvet]

Of course, all the headlines want to make sure that it's the Russians are mentioned first and foremost. The previous list of 2008 positives only focused on the Russians and to my knowledge, only Russian names were made public. Do we know the individuals from other countries on that list?

The only reason the first Russian names were released was that Tass, the official state news agency, released them. Russian state TV also released some information. It was not an anti-Russian move.

Proof of this includes

The Russian news agency Tass said that 14 of the 31 positive tests came from its country’s athletes. Among the names it mentioned were Mariya Abakumova, the javelin silver medallist, and Denis Alekseyev, who anchored Russia’s 4x400m team to bronze.

This is from http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/27/olympics-23-athletes-caught-out-london-2012-drug-retest

The name of a Spaniard has been released, but it is inevitable that interest will focus on Russia in view of the previous controversy.

Spanish hurdler Josephine Onyia has been identified in Spain as being one of the athletes whose samples from Beijing was positive. http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2016/05/27/london-olympic-doping-retests-positives-athletes/

 

[yaco]

The more pressing issue is that Olympic Sports continue to embarrass themselves by reordering medals - A positive is found and then the silver medallist goes up to Gold, then a few years later the new gold medallist strikes a positive after re-testing - And so it continues - Medals should never be reordered after an athlete tests positive.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

23 out of those 250 retested samples, which were previously 'clean', are now positive. Almost 10%...

The percentage is probably that high because those retests were targeted, not random. However, I would still stay that 10% warrants the retesting of a lot of other samples as well.

Know athletes who have competed at the State and National level in Australia who have always maintained its a minimum of 80% of elite athletes dope.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

23 out of those 250 retested samples, which were previously 'clean', are now positive. Almost 10%...

The percentage is probably that high because those retests were targeted, not random. However, I would still stay that 10% warrants the retesting of a lot of other samples as well.

Know athletes who have competed at the State and National level in Australia who have always maintained its a minimum of 80% of elite athletes dope.

Why aren't we getting that high amount of people caught? Money? Power? Protection? Testing not being good enough? Other???