Urine Trouble

[BotanyBay]

Even I would be concerned about twelve years of custody of his samples. And I'm sure his legal team will be all over that.

 

[TexPat]

They have developed a test for Chimay?

My career is over

No test needed. That stuff just oozes out of every pore. Damn, I'm suddenly very thirsty.

 

[Race Radio]

Even I would be concerned about twelve years of custody of his samples. And I'm sure his legal team will be all over that.

Good thing they were stored to code in a WADA certified lab

 

[this_is_edie]

Even I would be concerned about twelve years of custody of his samples. And I'm sure his legal team will be all over that.

Yep, 12 years is a long time to keep samples 'safe'.

oh and still chuckling on the title

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Some people are forgetting this case is not about doping. But testing some ancient samples will have little credibility in any case. The 99 samples were already judged not to have been kept in accounted for conditions and will not be admissable in court - no scientist will come to any firm conclusions on them. And the platizicer test is still very new and uncertain. It could just as easily be effected by the plastic water bottles or even plastic bags they hold the blood samples within. That the feds are still looking for evidence and going to this extraordinary and unprecedented lengths suggests they may not have as much as some would like us to believe. Nobody has talked from within the team so they are searching for hard evidence.

No.

99 can be reviewed, since this is, as you say, not a "doping" case. This simply corroborates eye-witness testimonies. If Lance was liberally using Androl patches, his CIR will light up light a roman candle.

I'd like to hear your deep thoughts and insight about the DEHP test. Seems we have a lot to learn. Illuminate us.

Regarding riders talking, what do you think prompted them to take this step, given the legal approach you only go after things you fully know the answer to? The teammates apparently talked. Sang like canaries, goes the "word" amongst some better informed people who are in touch with people who know.

 

[TexPat]

Good thing they were stored to code in a WADA certified lab

You mean they weren't kept in Julien's wine cellar with all of the 250 dollar tubulars?!

 

[hfer07]

This is it-there is no escape for Mr LA this time around.
The circumstantial evidence already gathered will be just solidified/confirmed/matched by the results of the Urine samples & BTW I think the Feds already have obtained the samples prior to this announcement & hopefully they included the team's members as well-this is just the pressure game put on the ones who are still refusing to cooperate...
turning the screws big time!!!

 

[Granville57]

Even I would be concerned about twelve years of custody of his samples. And I'm sure his legal team will be all over that.

Agreed.

This could also be part of a larger plan to apply pressure to others that may not have come forward yet. The more nervous people get, the more likely they are to make mistakes. And one can only guess as to who's communications are being "monitored" with the release of this latest info.

Edit: OK, this thread is moving too fast to keep up...

 

[Colm.Murphy]

No such judgement was made, BPC. Those samples are valid. The 2000 samples which were held up in a French police investigation will be even more valid.

The sun is going down in Lanceville, and the sunset will be spectacular.

The 2001 samples will be even more perilous.

No EPO test in place at that time (anecdotal rampant usage). Assume the storage standard are proper and chain of custody is intact.

CIR and EPO test.... Nails in the coffin.

 

[Ferminal]

no scientist will come to any firm conclusions on them.

Ummm, ok...

MA: There is no doubt in my mind these samples contain synthetic EPO, they belong to Lance Armstrong, and there's no conceivable way that I can see that a lab could've spiked them in a way that the data has presented itself. So there is no doubt in my mind he took EPO during the '99 Tour.

 

[Hugh Januss]

No such judgement was made, BPC. Those samples are valid. The 2000 samples which were held up in a French police investigation will be even more valid.

The sun is going down in Lanceville, and the sunset will be spectacular.

Nail on head.

 

[L29205]

Simple they test for DNA to prove it is LA's pee, then the test for EPO. Not for the PED effect but for a controlled drug in his system without a valid prescription. Just another small piece of the larger puzzle.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

I doubt any samples that old will be admissable in a US court. And if it was, you know that the Lance people will find their own scientists to cast doubt on the certainty of their conclusions. It seems like a long shot. This could signal the investigation is running out of steam. It's a point of view.

Why do you "doubt" it.

Very, very old evidence is admitted EVERY DAY in US courts. To convict AND to acquit. Cold cases being solved, wrongfully convicted being set free on an ongoing basis. It cuts both ways. Should we not free a man who's been potentially wrongfully convicted because the physical evidence is "old", even if it exonerates the person? New and better forensic tests are being developed all the time. Should an advance in science NOT be applied because something is "old"? Seems a trifle moronic to me to think this way.

Don't insult the intelligence of those who have applied logic and reason to this situation.

Running out of steam, not losing any sleep, waste of taxpayer money, done so much good for so many people, won't be part of any witch hunting, blah blah blah blah blah....

It is my opinion that your opinion is ****e.

 

[BroDeal]

People with an agenda spreading rumors on the internet that they talked does not equal talked. Until I see a shred of evidence that anybody talked I will remain sceptical. This is the lesson that Vaughters was saying in his article this week. Always be wary of the rumor mongers.

BPC is determined to go down with the ship.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Now that the FDA has submitted some letters rogatory to the AFLD to obtain "Lance" urine...

Yes, finally there is hope...

 

[Preemo]

Why would they only ask for the '99 samples?

 

[BroDeal]

So who will volunteer to send, "hey lance urine trouble," to Armstrong?

 

[this_is_edie]

BPC is determined to go down with the ship.

not really a surprise after all the energy expanded here.

 

[Ferminal]

And the platizicer test is still very new and uncertain. It could just as easily be effected by the plastic water bottles or even plastic bags they hold the blood samples within.

Which Journal Article did you get this new information from?

 

[Elagabalus]

People with an agenda spreading rumors on the internet that they talked does not equal talked. Until I see a shred of evidence that anybody talked I will remain sceptical. This is the lesson that Vaughters was saying in his article this week. Always be wary of the rumor mongers.

Ssssh! Don't say anything but I hear LA is having his private jet fitted with Sidewinder racks. All he needs now is the airport and departure time of the urine samples! This thing ain't over til' it's over ...

 

[ElChingon]

Why would they only ask for the '99 samples?

Right, why not the '03 and '04 years if not all the US Postal/Disco years? They'd have the right dates from Floyd so getting the right sample to re-test would narrow it down quite a bit.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

People with an agenda spreading rumors on the internet that they talked does not equal talked. Until I see a shred of evidence that anybody talked I will remain sceptical. This is the lesson that Vaughters was saying in his article this week. Always be wary of the rumor mongers.

If the "agenda" is supporting the search for the truth, then color me with that brush.

I don't see anyone sitting in a jail cell, with a contempt charge, on Lance's behalf. I also have sincere doubts that those who probably have the most information on Lance would risk a perjury or obstruction charge for Lance. It is ignorant to think that anyone who went in front of the GJ gave anything but exactly the truth.

Monsieur Ascot just wants to be your friend, too. Can't we all just be friends? Connecting the dots on this one is a point A to point B exercise. Not a real stretch of logic or leap of faith. I trust the US Feds would not fiddle with this unless they're exactly where they want to be.

 

[Road Hazard]

Right, why not the '03 and '04 years if not all the US Postal/Disco years? They'd have the right dates from Floyd so getting the right sample to re-test would narrow it down quite a bit.

My question as well. From what I've heard, getting international Letters Rogatory is a pain in the derriere. Why not grab all relevant samples at once.? If there is a problem with the custody of the 1999 samples, you've got other years, where the chain might be stronger, to test also.

 

[Dallas_]

Vrijman Joke

The 99 samples were already judged not to have been kept in accounted for conditions and will not be admissable in court - no scientist will come to any firm conclusions on them.

You are clutching at straws with the Vrijman report. I cannot even measure the straws, they are that short.

From WADA http://www.wada-ama.org/en/News-Cen...Statement-on-Inaccuracies-of-Vrijman-Report1/

"WADA’s detailed response, initially published on June 19, 2006, highlights a number of the unprofessional, inaccurate, unfair and misleading elements of the report."

A bit of homework for you in the following link with the complete report:

http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/News_Center/News/wada_official_statement_vrijman_report.pdf

Enjoy


lots of cheers to Novitzky

 

[Polish]

Same Pee, Different Day.

SPDD

That said, this thread has SERIOUS potential to become a CN Clinic Classic!


So, can we make it STICKY?
Sticky Urine Trouble

It only hurts when I laugh.
Stings.