US prosecutors drop case against Armstrong/USPS

[Velodude]

Yes, but GJ testimony has a way of going different places. FWIW, I think the WADA should have to do their own work but if Justice wants to share, that's their business.

Have you been a Federal Grand Jury juror and also had unique access to the investigators' files as authority for your opinion?

I would expect any Armstrong supporter would hope to see WADA/USADA being prevented from accessing information in the investigators' files relating to enquiries into US Postal Service cycling team and Armstrong's behavior with banned drugs and banned performance enhancing methods. That access would be totally unfair and unAmerican.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Do they teach reading where you're from, or were you not paying attention that day? I said, "Mods: don't you dare clean up this anti-American clap-trap." (Not "America bashing".) And thanks for the enlightenment on European tradition - that would be the same tradition in which tyranny, torture, corruption, cronyism, and bully behavior play such a prominent role, that it was necessary to found a new country, this one, dedicated to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Perhaps you can understand, then, why some Americans have been isolationists.

I like our credibility. And i don´t care if you take word for word and start insulting. Just shows your lack of arguments.

I could laugh if it wouldn´t be so sad to see the arrogance of the not so bright americans like you. Well done with your new country: Starting with the erasement of the native in the name of "freedom" and "democracy". Sounds familar with all the wars your country started or were involved. Disgusting: Only 3 presidents withstood this terrible acts.... Ahh, i have to stop here before vomiting on my keyboard.

 

[patricknd]

I thought it couldn't get any worst but the thread is getting ridculous.

i think their's some pretty funny **** here, although i noticed they edited my reference to foxxy's "traditions." oh well, it's par for the course

 

[webbie146]

O yea haha go LANCE!!

 

[Zam_Olyas]

David Howman Interview: WADA’s director general speaks about Armstrong/USPS investiga

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...speaks-about-ArmstrongUSPS-investigation.aspx

 

[Maxiton]

I like our credibility. And i don´t care if you take word for word and start insulting. Just shows your lack of arguments.

I could laugh if it wouldn´t be so sad to see the arrogance of the not so bright americans like you. Well done with your new country: Starting with the erasement of the native in the name of "freedom" and "democracy". Sounds familar with all the wars your country started or were involved. Disgusting: Only 3 presidents withstood this terrible acts.... Ahh, i have to stop here before vomiting on my keyboard.

My friend, those are not insults, but merely facts of history that you find insulting. "Not so bright americans like you" is of course an insult, but one directed at me. There is much in American history to be ashamed of, that's for sure, but you must admit that if it weren't for the USA, you'd be goosestepping in a straightjacket, or else singing about the brilliance of Leonid Brezhnev.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

The insult was your doubt if i can read... Well, i speak three languages.

Edit: Go trough all my 1.300 posts. I never started the fire. But when somebody got personal, i felt/feel free to hit back and hurt as much i can. My nature of true freedom.

 

[Escarabajo]

From about 1990 to 2010, a period of twenty years, virtually every GC rider in professional road racing was blood doping, one way or another. I don't think anyone can seriously dispute that. I feel it is bordering on the intellectually dishonest to label anyone from this era a cheat and while I'm 100% convinced Armstrong took drugs, I can't get myself worked up into a fury knowing that he did.

The federal investigation was interesting because we never knew what they were looking for. I think people who imagined it was about establishing whether Armstrong doped were deluding themselves. Perhaps they did think they could make a case that by doping, USPS was being defrauded but given that rule breaking and doping is a feature of pretty much any sport, that would be opening a real can of worms. I thought it was perhaps more to do with illegal drug trafficking, or money laundering. But I don't feel the need to evoke conspiracy theories now it has transpired they powers that be don't think they can make a case.

But reading this and other threads, I feel that like it or not, it is time to move on. Betsy Andreu's gem of evidence is 15 years old. Tyler Hamilton left US Postal in 2001. Floyd left them in 2004. What can the USADA usefully do? I submit nothing very much. Like it or not, the horse has bolted.

It is time to move on.

Welcome newcomer. But please speak for yourself. I am sure that many of the forumites in here do not agree with this view. Probably you need to review your words again.

If you are American remember that two wrongs don't make a right.

Again, I am happy that the Federals dropped this case. Now USADA have an easier task to proof with a lot less evidence, which probably compensate for the Federal investigation which had something hard to proof with a lot more evidence.

 

[Cloxxki]

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...speaks-about-ArmstrongUSPS-investigation.aspx

Ah, the national federations have been active as usual.

 

[doolols]

but you must admit that if it weren't for the USA, you'd be goosestepping in a straightjacket, or else singing about the brilliance of Leonid Brezhnev.

I'm all in favour of free speech, and find the tit-for-tat nonsense on here amusing. But this? This, as well as some other stuff, goes too far. I won't take you to task over this, because that's not what this forum is about.

We are, more than ever, internationalists. We have national identities, of which we're justifiably proud. The USA, as Britain, have welcomed people from other countries, which enriched our lives.

So, let's just cut the America / Europe crap, eh? Some of us don't like Armstrong not because he's American, but because he cheated his way to 7 wins in the Blue Riband of cycle races. And he doesn't accept those wins humbly - he parades them as badges of honour. He himself promulgated the idea of USA vs Europe, saying that the French were out to get him because he won 'their' race. Nonsense.

Anyway, moving on ...

There was a link to this earlier: http://news.yahoo.com/mayor-bloomberg-livestrong-latest-fund-abortion-182600506.html

Anyone notice that:

Visiting the LiveStrong website, it is obvious the charity looks favorably upon abortion. The site displays several sponsored links such as for the morning after pill and even more postings touting vacuum aspiration abortion and using the very unreliable rhythm method to avoid pregnancy.

Any guess which Livestrong site they visited? A classic mistake. And one that many people make, I'm sure. They associate the commercial 'health' site livestrong.com with the cancer charity livestrong.org. Sickening.

 

[Race Radio]

Ah, the national federations have been active as usual.

The Belgium Fed said they would open an investigation. Johan even said he would co-operate....and then nothing.

The good thing is the precedent is already set for what can, and cannot, be shared between the Feds and USADA. They worked closely together during the BALCO case and we should expect the same level of information exchange here.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I wonder if Livestrong has also been "cleared" from upstairs.

This $100,000 donation by quote, "Lance Armstrong's Livestrong", unquote, to a politician's favorite charity in an election year has the blurred lines of a verboten political donation particularly as that charity is not into cancer "awareness".

Like to have been a fly on the wall to be witness to the governance of Livestrong to approve that contribution.

One of the problems of eye witness evidence relating to doping concerns the identity of the drug in the hypodermic syringe. Armstrong's counsel would zero in to create doubt if the witness could not prove the contents were a banned substance or just a simple vitamin.

However, USADA/WADA are fortunate that period was after the change to blood doping after the French EPO urine test was introduced in 2001.

The administering equipment is identifiably different and the team riders' autologous blood bags are required to be refrigerated and identified to each rider.

And it appears through Landis' emails the top ups were carried out en masse in full view of the team.

I hear you, dude, I hear you. Its all a conspiracy.

Any news from your friends ?
What is the actual status of Lance's passport and travel restrictions ?
Did you finally find the USS Armstrong ?
Where did all that contaminated Astana trans-, in-, and confusion-equipment go ?
Has the 99er-Lance pee arrived in the USA ?
What is the current status of the investigation ?
Is the USADA aware of your friends ?

One of the main problems of virtual friends is that they do not exist.
Of course this only becomes a problem when you notice it.

 

[thehog]

I suggest that if Armstrong had the pull to get a Federal investigation against him dropped, the USADA will not stand a chance.

I hold absolutely no hope that his antics will ever see the light of day in full detail.

And Dr. Ferrari walks away again, free as a bird.

I agree. It he can beat the Feds then no one will touch him. I don't think the USADA investigation will go anywhere.

Meanwhile back in the cycling things are returning to normal:

_

Laurenzo Lapage, the Greenedge cycling sporting director who worked with Armstrong on the U.S. Postal Service and Discovery Channel teams from 2003 to '07, said the decision reaffirmed what most colleagues of Armstrong had long believed: He isn't a doper - "Everyone who knows Lance and was racing and working with him knew this before," Lapage said as his team prepared for the first stage of the Tour of Qatar.

"It was not a surprise for anyone. It's a good feeling that the truth is out now," Lapage said. "The guy had a lot of success and a lot of people were jealous. ... People tried to break him down with lies and it is really good thing everything (is) over for him now. He did a lot of great things for cycling. It is his moment to live in peace."

Johnny Weltz, the sporting director of the American team Garmin-Barracuda who rode with Armstrong on the Motorola team in 1995, said Armstrong was an easy target.
"The people who (made) these charges, they wanted to be Lance and didn't manage it," Weltz said. "So OK you can hit him in another way. These aren't the right people to judge. For us and cycling, it was best that it was a federal investigation. They had no knowledge up front and no past in the sport. I think most justice happens that way."

"You can always bring questions up for everything. We are used to that in our world. You suspect someone if they do well," Weltz said.
"You can't go further when you have a federal investigation for two years and they don't nail him. You have to let the guy go," he said. "He was acting properly in (the) same environment as everyone else. He won his victories in a credible way."

Lapage said he never saw any evidence of doping during his time with Armstrong, insisting his success came down to a strong work ethic and natural talent.

"When you work for these people, you see the way they work, the way they train," Lapage said. "It's easy when you are against them to find something you think, 'Ah, it's not normal.' But if you see the big champions and normal champions, they are healthy and strong and also from nature they have something extra and they work with it."

 

[Race Radio]

I agree. It he can beat the Feds then no one will touch him. I don't think the USADA investigation will go anywhere.

Meanwhile back in the cycling things are returning to normal:

_

Laurenzo Lapage, the Greenedge cycling sporting director who worked with Armstrong on the U.S. Postal Service and Discovery Channel teams from 2003 to '07, said the decision reaffirmed what most colleagues of Armstrong had long believed: He isn't a doper - "Everyone who knows Lance and was racing and working with him knew this before," Lapage said as his team prepared for the first stage of the Tour of Qatar.

"It was not a surprise for anyone. It's a good feeling that the truth is out now," Lapage said. "The guy had a lot of success and a lot of people were jealous. ... People tried to break him down with lies and it is really good thing everything (is) over for him now. He did a lot of great things for cycling. It is his moment to live in peace."

Johnny Weltz, the sporting director of the American team Garmin-Barracuda who rode with Armstrong on the Motorola team in 1995, said Armstrong was an easy target.
"The people who (made) these charges, they wanted to be Lance and didn't manage it," Weltz said. "So OK you can hit him in another way. These aren't the right people to judge. For us and cycling, it was best that it was a federal investigation. They had no knowledge up front and no past in the sport. I think most justice happens that way."

"You can always bring questions up for everything. We are used to that in our world. You suspect someone if they do well," Weltz said.
"You can't go further when you have a federal investigation for two years and they don't nail him. You have to let the guy go," he said. "He was acting properly in (the) same environment as everyone else. He won his victories in a credible way."

Lapage said he never saw any evidence of doping during his time with Armstrong, insisting his success came down to a strong work ethic and natural talent.

"When you work for these people, you see the way they work, the way they train," Lapage said. "It's easy when you are against them to find something you think, 'Ah, it's not normal.' But if you see the big champions and normal champions, they are healthy and strong and also from nature they have something extra and they work with it."

Lorenzo then saddled up his unicorn and flew home....

 

[Maxiton]

I'm all in favour of free speech, and find the tit-for-tat nonsense on here amusing. But this? This, as well as some other stuff, goes too far. I won't take you to task over this, because that's not what this forum is about.

We are, more than ever, internationalists. We have national identities, of which we're justifiably proud. The USA, as Britain, have welcomed people from other countries, which enriched our lives.

So, let's just cut the America / Europe crap, eh? Some of us don't like Armstrong not because he's American, but because he cheated his way to 7 wins in the Blue Riband of cycle races. And he doesn't accept those wins humbly - he parades them as badges of honour. He himself promulgated the idea of USA vs Europe, saying that the French were out to get him because he won 'their' race. Nonsense.

Anyway, moving on ...

There was a link to this earlier: http://news.yahoo.com/mayor-bloomberg-livestrong-latest-fund-abortion-182600506.html

Anyone notice that:


Any guess which Livestrong site they visited? A classic mistake. And one that many people make, I'm sure. They associate the commercial 'health' site livestrong.com with the cancer charity livestrong.org. Sickening.

When you can make some sense, get back to me.

I agree. It he can beat the Feds then no one will touch him. I don't think the USADA investigation will go anywhere.

Meanwhile back in the cycling things are returning to normal:

_

Laurenzo Lapage, the Greenedge cycling sporting director who worked with Armstrong on the U.S. Postal Service and Discovery Channel teams from 2003 to '07, said the decision reaffirmed what most colleagues of Armstrong had long believed: He isn't a doper - "Everyone who knows Lance and was racing and working with him knew this before," Lapage said as his team prepared for the first stage of the Tour of Qatar.

"It was not a surprise for anyone. It's a good feeling that the truth is out now," Lapage said. "The guy had a lot of success and a lot of people were jealous. ... People tried to break him down with lies and it is really good thing everything (is) over for him now. He did a lot of great things for cycling. It is his moment to live in peace."

Johnny Weltz, the sporting director of the American team Garmin-Barracuda who rode with Armstrong on the Motorola team in 1995, said Armstrong was an easy target.
"The people who (made) these charges, they wanted to be Lance and didn't manage it," Weltz said. "So OK you can hit him in another way. These aren't the right people to judge. For us and cycling, it was best that it was a federal investigation. They had no knowledge up front and no past in the sport. I think most justice happens that way."

"You can always bring questions up for everything. We are used to that in our world. You suspect someone if they do well," Weltz said.
"You can't go further when you have a federal investigation for two years and they don't nail him. You have to let the guy go," he said. "He was acting properly in (the) same environment as everyone else. He won his victories in a credible way."

Lapage said he never saw any evidence of doping during his time with Armstrong, insisting his success came down to a strong work ethic and natural talent.

"When you work for these people, you see the way they work, the way they train," Lapage said. "It's easy when you are against them to find something you think, 'Ah, it's not normal.' But if you see the big champions and normal champions, they are healthy and strong and also from nature they have something extra and they work with it."

Just as I predicted. Not that it took a genius. Pretty depressing.

 

[Velodude]

I hear you, dude, I hear you. Its all a conspiracy.

Any news from your friends ?
What is the actual status of Lance's passport and travel restrictions ?
Did you finally find the USS Armstrong ?
Where did all that contaminated Astana trans-, in-, and confusion-equipment go ?
Has the 99er-Lance pee arrived in the USA ?
What is the current status of the investigation ?
Is the USADA aware of your friends ?

One of the main problems of virtual friends is that they do not exist.
Of course this only becomes a problem when you notice it.

You must be one of the very few whose euphoria continues beyond the first 24 hours until the latter realisation the euphoria was a result of misjudgments and a big picture misconception.

 

[Polish]

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...speaks-about-ArmstrongUSPS-investigation.aspx

Mr Howman is so biased it is scary.
"If you are not a witch, Lance, why don't you let US investigate" he says with a pitchfork in one hand and a torch in the other.

And there is NO WAY the Feds would give him access to GJ testimony.
Heck, the main reason the Investigation was shut down was because it was a clusterfart of a leak-filled witch hunt smearjob.

It was obvious in the pre-motion media frenzy.
It became even more obvious in the post-motion media crickets chirp chirp.
Then onfirmed in the verbage of the rare press release by the Feds that the investigation was over. Mr Novitsky not told.

The Feds dodged a bullet by not bringing this to trial.
They would have been roasted.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CYC_DOPING_ARMSTRONG?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
.
.
.

 

[Velodude]

Mr Howman is so biased it is scary.
"If you are not a witch, Lance, why don't you let US investigate" he says with a pitchfork in one hand and a torch in the other.

And there is NO WAY the Feds would give him access to GJ testimony.
Heck, the main reason the Investigation was shut down was because it was a clusterfart of a leak-filled witch hunt smearjob.

It was obvious in the pre-motion media frenzy.
It became even more obvious in the post-motion media crickets chirp chirp.
Then onfirmed in the verbage of the rare press release by the Feds that the investigation was over. Mr Novitsky not told.

The Feds dodged a bullet by not bringing this to trial.
They would have been roasted.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CYC_DOPING_ARMSTRONG?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
.
.
.

The article you link is a comment made on Saturday.

The comment proved to be premature when the faeces later hit the fan after it was leaked it was a personal unsubstantiated decision of political origin and unrelated to the sufficiency and quality of the evidence obtained to gain a conviction.

It would be interesting if leaks occurred that this decision was made months ago but held back for political motivations. Then there would be genuine justification of misuse of taxpayers' funds.

 

[SirLes]

If WADA get their hands on the information from the investigation and decide to start their own investigation. Who do they go after first?

If evidence suggests a team wide doping program at USPS/Discovery that implicates an awful lot of people, many of whom are still active in the sport today. If evidence also relates to the 2009 TdF even more.

Do they go after the current riders/ management/Drs etc first or the biggest names or the people that would be easiest to secure a conviction against?

Which would have the biggest impact in terms of cleaning up the sport?

 

[Polish]

The article you link is a comment made on Saturday.

The comment proved to be premature when the faeces later hit the fan after it was leaked it was a personal unsubstantiated decision of political origin and unrelated to the sufficiency and quality of the evidence obtained to gain a conviction.

It would be interesting if leaks occurred that this decision was made months ago but held back for political motivations. Then there would be genuine justification of misuse of taxpayers' funds.

Yes, the article is from yesterday.

What "leak" "hit the fan" in the last 12 hours that proved it to be a "personal unsubstantiated decision"?

 

[doolols]

When you can make some sense, get back to me.

Would. You. Like. Me. To. Type. More. Slowly?

Which particular bit made no sense to you?

 

[hfer07]

http://news.yahoo.com/mayor-bloomberg-livestrong-latest-fund-abortion-182600506.html

so the "Political reimburse" has begun.....this is just another proof on how the investigation was K I L L E D by high powers within the government-after all there are a lot of "good causes" for Livestrong to "participate" in.......

extremely saddened by this charade.....

 

[Cal_Joe]

The article you link is a comment made on Saturday.

The comment proved to be premature when the faeces later hit the fan after it was leaked it was a personal unsubstantiated decision of political origin and unrelated to the sufficiency and quality of the evidence obtained to gain a conviction.

It would be interesting if leaks occurred that this decision was made months ago but held back for political motivations. Then there would be genuine justification of misuse of taxpayers' funds.

Regarding the bolded part - I missed that article. Could you provide a link? Thanks.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

dnlbenson Daniel Benson
Tygart: "USADA will leave no stone unturned to obtain the evidence to reveal the truth whatever that truth may be"

 

[Velodude]

If WADA get their hands on the information from the investigation and decide to start their own investigation. Who do they go after first?

If evidence suggests a team wide doping program at USPS/Discovery that implicates an awful lot of people, many of whom are still active in the sport today. If evidence also relates to the 2009 TdF even more.

Do they go after the current riders/ management/Drs etc first or the biggest names or the people that would be easiest to secure a conviction against?

Which would have the biggest impact in terms of cleaning up the sport?

It would be USADA who will be prosecuting and it would be limited to athletes that doped not the infrastructure behind the doping.

You can expect rider athletes to be given immunization against prosecution, for what it is worth, in return for their evidence.

I would think that GH is the only rider of that era who still competes. Others do not compete through retirement or serving suspensions.

The only rider in the 1999-2005 and 2009-2010 eras who has anything tangible to lose in the way of prestige, silverware, money and yellow jerseys is Lance Armstrong.