US prosecutors drop case against Armstrong/USPS

[KingsMountain]

Negative publicity was not the only qualifying event. 5 years is just a figure thrown in and has no statute support. SOL runs from time event is made known to USPS.

Edit Clarification

IMO Tailwind did not breach the negative publicity sub-clause during the period of the contract. But the team, in hindsight, allegedly breached the misrepresentation sub-clause (i) in claiming to be clean before and throughout the contract period and inducing USPS into new no doping contract. And sub-clause (iv) was breached, in hindsight, when the team entered into a doping program and Tailwind, in paradox, failed to take preventative action as required by the contract.

I "threw out" the 5 year figure because Landis' allegations came a little more than 5 years after the expiration of the contract, and not in consideration of any law.

Sub-clause (i) is not breached because no representation regarding doping was made in the contract. Notice the word "herein." I imagine this was a point of negotiation.
(iv) "Immediate action" is non-specific and could be anything from a stern talking-to upto a dismissal. We (at least I) don't know what was contained in the morals and doping clause in each rider's contract and what might constitute an offense. However, Tailwind would have to know about an offense before it could possibly take whatever action. The non-specificity and the difficulty of showing that Tailwind knew makes this a very difficult clause to enforce retroactively.

Incidentally, I find it interesting that the contract speaks of "management, namely Thomas Weisel" and goes on to mention Mark Gorski and Dan Osipow.

 

[MarkvW]

You should not rely on some other poster who has just blown in as a superior reference to avoid the application of your own expertise.

There are five events defined that give rise to a default in the Tailwind/USPS contract for 2001-2004.

The negative publicity clause (sub-clause (v)) relating to misconduct, criminal behavior and listed drug related offenses is but one of those five events.

On two of the other events Tailwind was in default on one event and allegedly in default on the other on the contract.

Negative publicity was not the only qualifying event. 5 years is just a figure thrown in and has no statute support. SOL runs from time event is made known to USPS.

Edit Clarification

IMO Tailwind did not breach the negative publicity sub-clause during the period of the contract. But the team, in hindsight, allegedly breached the misrepresentation sub-clause (i) in claiming to be clean before and throughout the contract period and inducing USPS into new no doping contract. And sub-clause (iv) was breached, in hindsight, when the team entered into a doping program and Tailwind, in paradox, failed to take preventative action as required by the contract.

You just make stuff up! There's no point in discussing with you.

 

[Velodude]

I "threw out" the 5 year figure because Landis' allegations came a little more than 5 years after the expiration of the contract, and not in consideration of any law.

So you used your "estimated" SOL-out-of-time figure to suit your arguments that in all aspects the Feds case was weak.

Sub-clause (i) is not breached because no representation regarding doping was made in the contract. Notice the word "herein." I imagine this was a point of negotiation.

"herein" refers exclusively to the warranties contained in the contract.

Misrepresentation is a material false statement of fact.

In relation to pre contractual misrepresentation I refer you to Dr Maserati's excellent post that Tailwind principals falsely represented to USPS in answer to the sponsor's concerns about team doping.

It is a concept of contract law that a contract can be voided if one party (Tailwind) makes false statements of fact to induce the other party (USPS) into contract.

USPS obviously concerned about the media allegations of team doping in up to 2000 included a misrepresentation clause to reinforce the principles of a binding contract.

(iv) "Immediate action" is non-specific and could be anything from a stern talking-to upto a dismissal. We (at least I) don't know what was contained in the morals and doping clause in each rider's contract and what might constitute an offense. However, Tailwind would have to know about an offense before it could possibly take whatever action. The non-specificity and the difficulty of showing that Tailwind knew makes this a very difficult clause to enforce retroactively.

But it is action comparable to no action. Tailwind knew about all the alleged offenses because it used its assets to fund the doping program (sale of bikes), laundered that money for purchases and distributed the drugs to team riders. That was the Feds case which Armstrong worked on higher level decision makers to prevent the case from seeing the light of day.

Incidentally, I find it interesting that the contract speaks of "management, namely Thomas Weisel" and goes on to mention Mark Gorski and Dan Osipow.

If they were the management at the time of the parties entering into contract, a change or addition does not void the contract.

 

[KingsMountain]

So you used your "estimated" SOL-out-of-time figure to suit your arguments that in all aspects the Feds case was weak.

No, not at all Here's what I actually said (in response to Race Radio) in post 1234

Acts of doping (and other stuff) are only prejudicial to the team if negative publicity results. And negative publicity 5 years after expiration of the contract doesn't count.

I don't see why you would think that implies an estimate of the length of a SOL. Perhaps it didn't occur to you that Landis spoke out 5 years after the expiration.

 

[Velodude]

No, not at all Here's what I actually said (in response to Race Radio) in post 1234
I don't see why you would think that implies an estimate of the length of a SOL. Perhaps it didn't occur to you that Landis spoke out 5 years after the expiration.

Sorry, I took your response literally, not your original post, that the Landis exposure was too late.

 

[Microchip]

Well i have NO DOUBT, since 7 positives plus hemassist plus affidavits plus dubious blood readings plus Ferrari plus the donations (speak bribes) plus a rider who finished in mountain stages 28 mins down with the likes of Zabel and then "wins" 7 tours in a row? Well, i think the evidence is overhelming that Armstrong is covered up and a über doper. In the end the truth will come out, even if it takes 50 years like the injections for the german soccer team in 1954.

And all those things didn´t came from the forum, but indepentend investigators. Thanks to Damien Rossiot, Walsh etc.

+1!

Including dropping out of his first Tour; placing 97th overall in another Tour, then winning by the biggest margin in history, and repeating the victory 6 more times.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Velodude, there is no RICO, no laundering, no tampering.
Investigation has been dropped. Case is closed. February 3rd.
Insufficient Evidence.

Geez, you are like the Black Knight.
And I mean that as a compliment. Grrrrr.

But please step aside and let us fanboys pass. Please.
If you want to call it a "draw" - fine. Whatever.

BTW, or you typing with your nose or just banging your head against the keyboard?

Insufficient Evidence.
And a lot of it.
Where has all the evidence gone ?

I think, after someone mentioned Baghdad Bob earlier, the Black Knight is another brilliant imagination to describe the feeling when you read those few hundred pages produced by our favourite posters over last few days.
Really !
But you are sure that the dude is really a worthy adversary ?
Have my doubts, but if he is capable of one thing, then it is to look intelligent and important.

Was also looking for an imagination of the feeling caused when reading up pages.
Since I am German, I thought of those last days in the Führerbunker.
Having some last party, with artillery subwoofer and Катюша orchestra in the back, and someone on the hoi polloi-radio still declaring the win that is just around the corner.
"Some have not realized the bang yet."

 

[BotanyBay]

Originally Posted by BotanyBay

If you believe that, then ask for a full review of this travesty of justice. An innocent man has been wronged and he spent millions defending himself before even one charge was leveled.

This is a good point and one worth pondering.

And, as such, I'm sure you'll have no trouble laying EVERYTHING out on the table so that we can all get to the bottom of why this happened, right?

Moderators: You forgot to leave a note after you went in and deleted my photo. -Bb

 

[thehog]

Originally Posted by BotanyBay




And, as such, I'm sure you'll have no trouble laying EVERYTHING out on the table so that we can all get to the bottom of why this happened, right?

Because I’ve now come to terms that this is the end. What would really top this off would be Armstrong to take action against the government for character assassin and win. That would be awesome.

 

[Benotti69]

Because I’ve now come to terms that this is the end. What would really top this off would be Armstrong to take action against the government for character assassin and win. That would be awesome.

Considering they just gave him a get out of jail free card, how would that work?

They would just open the investigation and he just spent millions getting closed.

 

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by BotanyBay




And, as such, I'm sure you'll have no trouble laying EVERYTHING out on the table so that we can all get to the bottom of why this happened, right?

And, as such, I'm sure you'll have no trouble laying EVERYTHING out on the table so that we can all get to the bottom of why this happened, right?

Can't have that. Any truth devastates Armstrong on every level.

I can't imagine going through life that way.

 

[Anonymous]

Considering they just gave him a get out of jail free card, how would that work?

They would just open the investigation and he just spent millions getting closed.

It would not work for the same reason LA does not go after Landis, Hamilton, et. al.

He pushes it then the Feds will have to march out that "lack" of evidence... Depositions.... Cross examination.... It would be ugly.

Nope, LA hides for a while to let the dust settle and hopes his political connections clog the toilet so that WADA/USADA get nothing and any further proceedings go nowhere.

I will say this, there's not enough hot water in the world to get Birotte clean. Sad, sad situation.

 

[Race Radio]

It would not work for the same reason LA does not go after Landis, Hamilton, et. al.

He pushes it then the Feds will have to march out that "lack" of evidence... Depositions.... Cross examination.... It would be ugly.

Nope, LA hides for a while to let the dust settle and hopes his political connections clog the toilet so that WADA/USADA get nothing and any further proceedings go nowhere.

I will say this, there's not enough hot water in the world to get Birotte clean. Sad, sad situation.

Oh my, that is a good line.

 

[Hmmmmm]

Originally Posted by BotanyBay

And, as such, I'm sure you'll have no trouble laying EVERYTHING out on the table so that we can all get to the bottom of why this happened, right?

I find your thoughts and humor amusing at times. I actually agree with you on many points. My comment earlier in regards to your comment "An innocent man has been wronged and he spent millions defending himself before even one charge was leveled" was one in which I actually do not think he is innocent and enjoyed the irony.

I get it. Just because I voice an opinion and don't have 100 percent absolute conviction in all the things I post is fine with me. I'm human. I don't know everything and certainly don't claim to.

Good Socrates quote...

“Well I am certainly wiser than this man. It is only too likely that neither of us has any knowledge to boast of; but he thinks that he knows something which he does not know, whereas I am quite conscious of my ignorance. At any rate it seems that I am wiser than he is to this small extent, that I do not think that I know what I do not know.”

I'm sure someone will slam me again. Seems to be the norm around here.

 

[thehog]

It would not work for the same reason LA does not go after Landis, Hamilton, et. al.

He pushes it then the Feds will have to march out that "lack" of evidence... Depositions.... Cross examination.... It would be ugly.

Nope, LA hides for a while to let the dust settle and hopes his political connections clog the toilet so that WADA/USADA get nothing and any further proceedings go nowhere.

I will say this, there's not enough hot water in the world to get Birotte clean. Sad, sad situation.

I’m just playing. But it would be funny.

Maybe Floyd & Tyler can sue Armstrong.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

It would not work for the same reason LA does not go after Landis, Hamilton, et. al.

He pushes it then the Feds will have to march out that "lack" of evidence... Depositions.... Cross examination.... It would be ugly.

Nope, LA hides for a while to let the dust settle and hopes his political connections clog the toilet so that WADA/USADA get nothing and any further proceedings go nowhere.

I will say this, there's not enough hot water in the world to get Birotte clean. Sad, sad situation.

Scott, I was taken with your remark about the GOP doing anything to get rid of Boxer. Maybe if some of us emailed our corruption/influence peddling concerns to a great American like Rush Limbaugh? Would he bite?

 

[Stingray34]

When's Lance gonna tweet: "Well, well, hasn't this week turned out alright?!"

 

[Anonymous]

Scott, I was taken with your remark about the GOP doing anything to get rid of Boxer. Maybe if some of us emailed our corruption/influence peddling concerns to a great American like Rush Limbaugh? Would he bite?

He might... But my guess is his angle would be more towards trying to connect dots to a corrupt DOJ via Holder and Obama. I doubt he'd get his dander up to go after the second dumbest woman in national politics.

The other thing is Boxer is in Cali. So she is very safe. We love idiot politicians in this State.

 

[BotanyBay]

I find your thoughts and humor amusing at times. I actually agree with you on many points. My comment earlier in regards to your comment "An innocent man has been wronged and he spent millions defending himself before even one charge was leveled" was one in which I actually do not think he is innocent and enjoyed the irony.

I get it. Just because I voice an opinion and don't have 100 percent absolute conviction in all the things I post is fine with me. I'm human. I don't know everything and certainly don't claim to.

Good Socrates quote...

“Well I am certainly wiser than this man. It is only too likely that neither of us has any knowledge to boast of; but he thinks that he knows something which he does not know, whereas I am quite conscious of my ignorance. At any rate it seems that I am wiser than he is to this small extent, that I do not think that I know what I do not know.”

I'm sure someone will slam me again. Seems to be the norm around here.

I'll take this opportunity to apologize. I have not been a regular commenter for the past several months, and as I sometimes do, I made an ***umption without really being familiar with your past posts. So, my apologies to you.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

He might... But my guess is his angle would be more towards trying to connect dots to a corrupt DOJ via Holder and Obama. I doubt he'd get his dander up to go after the second dumbest woman in national politics.

The other thing is Boxer is in Cali. So she is very safe. We love idiot politicians in this State.

Well, I fed him and Joyce Kaufmann (a big Allen West backer) the Fabiani,Lehane, Breuer, Boxer, Birotte connections.

Hopefully he'll use his further imagination to make the Holder/Obama link. Love him or hate him, Limbaugh scares the bejesus out of all of these wimps in Washington.

Hopefully they'll fulfill their patriotic duties as great Americans and look into these matters!

 

[Race Radio]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colu...mstrong-case-rolls-on-as-it-should/53016026/1

"From the information I have, the data and evidence that has been gathered will reveal a lot of information that indicates doping offenses," Howman said. "Because of the considerable amount (of evidence), and because it has the same importance not only to the United States but also to the world as the information found during the BALCO investigation, anybody who committed an offense should be properly brought to justice."

 

[Anonymous]

Well, I fed him and Joyce Kaufmann (a big Allen West backer) the Fabiani,Lehane, Breuer, Boxer, Birotte connections.

Hopefully he'll use his further imagination to make the Holder/Obama link. Love him or hate him, Limbaugh scares the bejesus out of all of these wimps in Washington.

Hopefully they'll fulfill their patriotic duties as great Americans and look into these matters!

Send what you have to Breitbart. Dude loves high profile expose's.

 

[LarryBudMelman]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colu...mstrong-case-rolls-on-as-it-should/53016026/1

I preferred this gem.

In January 2011, Sports Illustrated published a story containing allegations that Armstrong used performance-enhancing drugs. Knowing that USADA announced it was investigating him and his sport the previous May, he took to Twitter:

"Great to hear that USADA is investigating some of SI's claims. I look forward to being vindicated."

If Armstrong is so vigorously supportive of USADA's work, we should be, too.

 

[Stingray34]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colu...mstrong-case-rolls-on-as-it-should/53016026/1

I like this Christine Brennan, no shrill bandwagoner or a hater:

It's natural for some to wonder if we aren't approaching Armstrong steroid fatigue, if at this point we might just be piling on a man who has become an icon to millions of cancer victims and survivors and their families and friends. I have always believed, however, that we should go to the greatest lengths possible to find out the truth about whether athletes, especially high-profile role models like Armstrong, have cheated to earn their trophies and make their millions.

But don't take my word for it. Take Armstrong's.

In January 2011, Sports Illustrated published a story containing allegations that Armstrong used performance-enhancing drugs. Knowing that USADA announced it was investigating him and his sport the previous May, he took to Twitter:

"Great to hear that USADA is investigating some of SI's claims. I look forward to being vindicated."

If Armstrong is so vigorously supportive of USADA's work, we should be, too.

Thanks RR

 

[LarryBudMelman]

Send what you have to Breitbart. Dude love high profile exposes.

Yup! Done.