US prosecutors drop case against Armstrong/USPS

[MarkvW]

If this was all over 9 months ago why did Lance fly to Aspen to harass Tyler? Why did he tell Tyler his lawyers would make his life hell and they tear him apart on the witness stand? What witness stand is he referring to if the case was already over?

If there was no case why did Armstrong's lawyers contact Tyler's lawyer and propose a joint defense agreement? Why did they ditch Levi as soon as he talked? ......and where is Johan? Why did he not show up for Utah, Colorado, and California? Are those races not important for Radioshack? Trek? SRAM? If there was no case what was he scared of?
. . .

You have consistently maintained that the investigation was secret and that there have been no leaks. This means that you have consistently maintained that there have been no leaks to anyone--including Lance Armstrong.

Why does Lance's behavior indicate the relative health of the federal investigation at any point in time? Are you now suggesting that secret information was leaked to Lance that prompted Lance's behavior?

 

[mewmewmew13]

Ummmwut? What overwhelming evidence?

Oh, you mean, Floyd, Tyler, Frankie and that national treasure of a wife Betsy?

Yes, those star witnesses, all except Betsy, are known liars and cheats and rode dirty while profiting from such.

Yes, fantastic evidence indeed!



Oh wait, there is more! Here are few insightful tidbits in and email exchange with VN and Betsy recently regarding the dropped case. Enjoy her psychotic ramblings. I find it amazing how she is quick to make scathing "corrections and assumptions" regarding questions asked, then proceeds to use articles/quotes and speculations about alleged samples being tested as positive, inuendos etc she makes over and over again. With her high moral standards, I have no idea after reading this how Betsy still remains married to a guy that admittedly doped for years as a cyclist, yet continues her personal vendetta against Lance in the same sentences. She is indeed a nut job.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/02/news/opinion-betsys-word-on-lance_206336

Oh wait, Betsy claims she never testified before the Grand Jury. Hmmm...geee, wonder why the case was dropped, since the Grand Jury never heard a word one of the "star" witnesses said first hand. Maybe they read what she said in a report by some "federal agent". Some case they had to start with.

Zig, you are trying really hard to discredit Betsy and paint her as an off-balance woman. Nice manly try.

I'm not sure why so many feel so threatened by a female that doesn't back down and stands up to intimidation and sleazy tactics (aka bullying).

One line of defense when people feel threatened is to paint the accuser as having 'issues'. You seem to be following this pattern. Someone else named Armstrong does the same thing.

The bolded----doping does not make you a 'bad person'.
People make bad choices and/or may be pressured into making bad choices--- I'm guessing that you may have too.
Threatening people and using power to destroy people's lives are not the actions of a 'good person' .

whatever...blah blah wasted breath...

 

[Cloxxki]

Race Radio, what sources are there for GH testifying? I got the vague 60min reference, but after...? True leak or rumor?
If I understood correctly, only a called GJ witness can make public to have testified, and what to have said themselves. No-one else can, right? If GH required immunity to talk openly, he'll like sit on his own words for a while longer, as the sport facilitates his lifestyle?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The petition is obviously an attempt at pressuring the US Attorney. Asking the US Attorney to explain the failure to seek an indictment despite overwhelming evidence and the appearance of collusion is not merely asking for an explanation. It is pressure.

This is topical news. And it will be over by March 8.

"Obviously"?

Actually the petition is quite clear on what they seek, and it has nothing to do with the US Attorney.

...
We seek no action. Only commentary from the White House explaining the rational, moral, and legal justification for the lack of prosecution in this case.

 

[Race Radio]

You have consistently maintained that the investigation was secret and that there have been no leaks. This means that you have consistently maintained that there have been no leaks to anyone--including Lance Armstrong.

Why does Lance's behavior indicate the relative health of the federal investigation at any point in time? Are you now suggesting that secret information was leaked to Lance that prompted Lance's behavior?

I suggest you ask Goober this question. He is claiming that Armstrong knew the case was over 9 months ago and Lance has been tranquilo ever since

 

[Race Radio]

Race Radio, what sources are there for GH testifying? I got the vague 60min reference, but after...? True leak or rumor?
If I understood correctly, only a called GJ witness can make public to have testified, and what to have said themselves. No-one else can, right? If GH required immunity to talk openly, he'll like sit on his own words for a while longer, as the sport facilitates his lifestyle?

George did not talk to the GJ, he volunteered to talk to investigators.

Funny, the Armstrong leak complaint said George spoke to the GJ.....but then Fabiani said they knew all along that George only talked to investigators. It appears he is having troubling keeping his lies straight

 

[MacRoadie]

With her high moral standards, I have no idea after reading this how Betsy still remains married to a guy that admittedly doped for years as a cyclist, yet continues her personal vendetta against Lance in the same sentences.

Facts don't mean much to you do they? Talk about nut jobs and smear campaigns. Where the f@#k is Polish?

Coming Clean

"For the great majority of my career I was able to race clean," Andreu later told Bicycling.com. "I did take EPO building up to the 1999 Tour, but stopped before the race. It was wrong."

2 Ex-Teammates of Cycling Star Admit Drug Use

In an interview at his home in Dearborn, Mich., Andreu said that he took EPO for only a few races and that he was acknowledging his use now because he thought doping was damaging his sport.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I share what I can. Yes I know lots of things you don't. I sporadically correct people - usually people who are way off. I was wrong when I said Lance was going to have a good thanksgiving - I was shocked they did not close the case that Wednesday. You started spewing things about the FBI "looked into it" as if it was looked into and nothing was found - I was telling you that you have no idea - NO IDEA. The media says people 'close' to the investigation were shocked to learn the case was abruptly being closed - possibly but not people involved in the investigation - maybe the investigators wives? Maybe the company situated next door?. Don't be a media puppet - it is hard I know - I fall into the trap from time to time.

You do know lots of things - it doesn't mean of course that you are correct.

From last August:

Oh no.... Lance is the least of this... So many have it soooo wrong...

And then some more in October:

Remember the name Mr Ball when shiet happens. I am getting tired of saying it for the past 6 months...

So is Ball still in big trouble?

 

[mewmewmew13]

I think there is a Race Radio look-alike contest going on here.

 

[Anonymous]

Ummmwut? What overwhelming evidence?

Oh, you mean, Floyd, Tyler, Frankie and that national treasure of a wife Betsy?

Yes, those star witnesses, all except Betsy, are known liars and cheats and rode dirty while profiting from such.

Yes, fantastic evidence indeed!



Oh wait, there is more! Here are few insightful tidbits in and email exchange with VN and Betsy recently regarding the dropped case. Enjoy her psychotic ramblings. I find it amazing how she is quick to make scathing "corrections and assumptions" regarding questions asked, then proceeds to use articles/quotes and speculations about alleged samples being tested as positive, inuendos etc she makes over and over again. With her high moral standards, I have no idea after reading this how Betsy still remains married to a guy that admittedly doped for years as a cyclist, yet continues her personal vendetta against Lance in the same sentences. She is indeed a nut job.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/02/news/opinion-betsys-word-on-lance_206336

Oh wait, Betsy claims she never testified before the Grand Jury. Hmmm...geee, wonder why the case was dropped, since the Grand Jury never heard a word one of the "star" witnesses said first hand. Maybe they read what she said in a report by some "federal agent". Some case they had to start with.

How the F would you know what kind of case they had/have?

Oh wait, you probably had access to GJ testimony... You and Anthony Tan

 

[BotanyBay]

So is Ball still in big trouble?

Not with the US Government / Birotte, as he threw the entire case away.

I also saw that Kohls is now carrying Rock & Republic jeans, so either that was part of the bankruptcy or part of a very lucrative deal for him. I'd say he's doing well. But then again, look at his 'roid-driven body. He's just a hair off of looking like Arnie and Stallone.

 

[BotanyBay]

Oh wait, Betsy claims she never testified before the Grand Jury. Hmmm...geee, wonder why the case was dropped, since the Grand Jury never heard a word one of the "star" witnesses said first hand. Maybe they read what she said in a report by some "federal agent". Some case they had to start with.

The reason they didn't bother hauling Betsy and Frankie Andreu before a grand jury is because they didn't feel the need to put them under oath to get truthful testimony. In other words, they trusted their credibility as witnesses.

Grand jury sessions are used in cases like this to get otherwise "reluctant" witnesses to offer truthful information under potential penalty of perjury.

If Betsy, Frankie and Georgie didn't go to the Grand Jury, but instead were merely interviewed by investigators, it meant that the feds believed them. And it is my opinion that if Georgie was not a GJ witness, then it had to have been his own idea. Don't get me wrong. They would have wanted to talk to George anyway, but I feel that George wanted to get aboard the steamroller, and not be part of the road. Smart guy.

Remember, Tyler only went public AFTER sitting in the grand jury chamber. His going on 60 Minutes was a really BAD thing for the case.

Stephanie McIlvane emerged from the GJ session stating that "She testified never heard the things that Betsy and Frankie say THEY heard". But she was under no obligation to be truthful to the media. Remember, she was/is still employed by Oakley. No way she's going to flip on Lance (in public) until she actually has to.

 

[MarkvW]

Zig, you are trying really hard to discredit Betsy and paint her as an off-balance woman. Nice manly try.

I'm not sure why so many feel so threatened by a female that doesn't back down and stands up to intimidation and sleazy tactics (aka bullying).

One line of defense when people feel threatened is to paint the accuser as having 'issues'. You seem to be following this pattern. Someone else named Armstrong does the same thing.

The bolded----doping does not make you a 'bad person'.
People make bad choices and/or may be pressured into making bad choices--- I'm guessing that you may have too.
Threatening people and using power to destroy people's lives are not the actions of a 'good person' .

whatever...blah blah wasted breath...

There is going to come a time when people will take treatments or therapies that will dramatically improve the quality and duration of their life. Those treatments and therapies my have a side effect of dramatically improving the subject's sporting performance. No sane person would refuse such a treatment. Are we going to bar a person who receives such a treatment or therapy from sport? Are we going to sanction their behavior? Call it "wrong?" I make these points only in support of this position: Doping is wrong from a sporting point of view only insofar as it is cheating. From the sporting point of view it is no more or less wrong than vinokouroving a race.

Bike racing is complicated. On the one hand, there are the written rules of the sport. In my moral universe (as a fan), the inquiry ends there. But there are other rules in the sport--the 'unwritten law' of the peloton and the business of pro cycling as it is (questionably) practiced by the UCI. Anybody who wants to cycle as a pro has to balance all three 'laws'--definitely if they want any success, and often even if they want to participate at all.

I view European pro bike racing as a filthy circus, where the results mean nothing and the only value is the momentary pleasure of the race and the fun of watching all the antidoping drama. If the UCI imploded tomorrow, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Some new cycling circus would replace it . . ..

But if (unlike me) you really care about pro cycling, you have to be sympathetic to the plight of the riders. You are supporting a doped up filthy circus! I don't mean to criticize that support at all--I just mean that it is hypocritical and cruel to focus hate on riders (and spouses) who have to contend with both the written and unwittten rules of a sport that you so ardently support and care for. If it weren't for the support of the fans, would-be pro bike racers wouldn't ever be in a position to make the ethical choices compelled by the written and unwritten rules of pro cycling. With very rare exceptions, the racers are mere pawns--and not very highly paid pawns, at that.

Attacking Ms. Andreu for her choice of spouse is particularly vicious. Such a gutter attack is disgusting. But she has left herself wide open to legitimate challenge.

 

[MacRoadie]

Not with the US Government / Birotte, as he threw the entire case away.

I also saw that Kohls is now carrying Rock & Republic jeans, so either that was part of the bankruptcy or part of a very lucrative deal for him. I'd say he's doing well. But then again, look at his 'roid-driven body. He's just a hair off of looking like Arnie and Stallone.

Yeah, but $55.00 at Kohls is a long way from $350.00 at Bloomingdale's and Neiman Marcus...

 

[Race Radio]

Since Goober claims to be a personal friend of Lance and George maybe he could tell us who this guy is?

Seen often at Disco team hotels at the 2005 Tour. Strange as he does not appear on any staff rosters. Of course that cooler is likely filled with soda, we know Lance likes a cold Coke after the stage.

Also, does he know the Latino guy they used here in the U.S.? Hope nobody finds out about him.

 

[Microchip]

As indicated in the statement by Thom Mrozek, they will comply with the US legislative requirements.

The only thing is, the Convention is Supreme law in the US, but there may be another US law that has higher precedence, requiring Birotte's office to not comply with the Convention under certain circumstances.

In doing their job, Birotte's office might comply completely with US national legislation, but that doesn't necessarily mean any evidence will be provided to USADA.

Enron showed the way...

 

[KingsMountain]

[In response to Dr. M's question if Ball was still in trouble]

Not with the US Government / Birotte, as he threw the entire case away.

So far as I know, Birotte's only released statement was

United States Attorney André Birotte Jr. today announced that his office is closing an investigation into allegations of federal criminal conduct by members and associates of a professional bicycle racing team owned in part by Lance Armstrong.

From that, it isn't clear how the DOJ is treating Ball or others.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

There is going to come a time when people will take treatments or therapies that will dramatically improve the quality and duration of their life. Those treatments and therapies my have a side effect of dramatically improving the subject's sporting performance. No sane person would refuse such a treatment. Are we going to bar a person who receives such a treatment or therapy from sport? Are we going to sanction their behavior? Call it "wrong?" I make these points only in support of this position: Doping is wrong from a sporting point of view only insofar as it is cheating. From the sporting point of view it is no more or less wrong than vinokouroving a race.

Bike racing is complicated. On the one hand, there are the written rules of the sport. In my moral universe (as a fan), the inquiry ends there. But there are other rules in the sport--the 'unwritten law' of the peloton and the business of pro cycling as it is (questionably) practiced by the UCI. Anybody who wants to cycle as a pro has to balance all three 'laws'--definitely if they want any success, and often even if they want to participate at all.

I view European pro bike racing as a filthy circus, where the results mean nothing and the only value is the momentary pleasure of the race and the fun of watching all the antidoping drama. If the UCI imploded tomorrow, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Some new cycling circus would replace it . . ..

But if (unlike me) you really care about pro cycling, you have to be sympathetic to the plight of the riders. You are supporting a doped up filthy circus! I don't mean to criticize that support at all--I just mean that it is hypocritical and cruel to focus hate on riders (and spouses) who have to contend with both the written and unwittten rules of a sport that you so ardently support and care for. If it weren't for the support of the fans, would-be pro bike racers wouldn't ever be in a position to make the ethical choices compelled by the written and unwritten rules of pro cycling. With very rare exceptions, the racers are mere pawns--and not very highly paid pawns, at that.

Attacking Ms. Andreu for her choice of spouse is particularly vicious. Such a gutter attack is disgusting. But she has left herself wide open to legitimate challenge.

Good that you think personal attacks on Ms. Andreu are disgusting.

Pity you did not have that viewpoint before you posted this about Ms.Andreu:

But Betsy (in the Velonews interview) said that Birotte's office said that they were going to turn over all the stuff, except the GJ stuff, to WADA.

While Betsy is a shrieking harpy, I'm convinced she's a honest shrieking harpy.

 

[BotanyBay]

Attacking Ms. Andreu for her choice of spouse is particularly vicious. Such a gutter attack is disgusting. But she has left herself wide open to legitimate challenge.

Agreed on the first part.

Betsy has her line drawn in the sand and lives her life that way. I'm sure there have been more than a few fights at 'Casa Andreu' over this matter, and that is THEIR business as a couple. Couples that have been through just 10% of what they've been through have gotten divorced, so I applaud the strength of their relationship.

But Lance's conduct (with Frankie and other former teammates) has hit a lot of families in the bank account (literally). Betsy and Frankie have seen a LOT of funny business go down since that SCA trial. Frankie has wanted to remain employed in cycling, but as we all know, he does not manage Betsy's mind. I think Betsy is a woman of integrity. Does she take the situation very personally? How can she not at this point? Is it healthy? Perhaps not. But it is not our place to lecture her on how she should feel and react.

 

[BotanyBay]

[In response to Dr. M's question if Ball was still in trouble]
So far as I know, Birotte's only released statement was
From that, it isn't clear how the DOJ is treating Ball or others.

I think we all know that you can't just dismiss part of this case. There are too many degrees of Kevin Bacon going on. You can't pursue Ball and the Rock Racing relationships without making the connection between Tyler, Floyd and Lance. And so, if you want to let lance off the hook, you've gotta throw the whole bucket-o-fish back.

 

[thehog]

Since Goober claims to be a personal friend of Lance and George maybe he could tell us who this guy is?

Seen often at Disco team hotels at the 2005 Tour. Strange as he does not appear on any staff rosters. Of course that cooler is likely filled with soda, we know Lance likes a cold Coke after the stage.

Also, does he know the Latino guy they used here in the U.S.? Hope nobody finds out about him.

Who is that guy???!!!!! Nice suit by the way so can’t be Duffy.

 

[MacRoadie]

Attacking Ms. Andreu for her choice of spouse is particularly vicious. Such a gutter attack is disgusting. But she has left herself wide open to legitimate challenge.

How so?

The only true source for Frankie's doping is his own admission. There has never been any corroboration, nor any claim by others that he doped for a longer period than he has stated publicly. He wasn't "outed" by anyone, but volunteered the information.

Betsy has also been on the record from day one as being vehemently opposed to Frankie's EPO use, to the point of giving him an "it or me" ultimatum.

I suggest you listen to this before you suggest that any question about Betsy's views on Frankie and doping are a "legitimate challenge"...

 

[BotanyBay]

Since Goober claims to be a personal friend of Lance and George maybe he could tell us who this guy is?

Seen often at Disco team hotels at the 2005 Tour. Strange as he does not appear on any staff rosters. Of course that cooler is likely filled with soda, we know Lance likes a cold Coke after the stage.

Also, does he know the Latino guy they used here in the U.S.? Hope nobody finds out about him.

Wow.

 

[MarkvW]

How so?

The only true source for Frankie's doping is his own admission. There has never been any corroboration, nor any claim by others that he doped for a longer period than he has stated publicly. He wasn't "outed" by anyone, but volunteered the information.

Betsy has also been on the record from day one as being vehemently opposed to Frankie's EPO use, to the point of giving him an "it or me" ultimatum.

I suggest you listen to this before you before you suggest that any question about Betsy's views on Frankie and doping are a "legitimate challenge"...

Pardon me, I only meant to suggest that her Monday false statement has left her open to legitimate challenge. I should have been more clear. There is really no justification for her statement that Birotte's Office said something it did not say. We have her correction, and that mitigates it a lot, but she did leave herself open to legitimate criticism. That reality can't be ignored.

 

[BotanyBay]

Pardon me, I only meant to suggest that her Monday false statement has left her open to legitimate challenge. I should have been more clear. There is really no justification for her statement that Birotte's Office said something it did not say. We have her correction, and that mitigates it a lot, but she did leave herself open to legitimate criticism. That reality can't be ignored.

One thing is for sure, it is really hard to keep-up with all of the words being traded.