USADA - Armstrong

[Polish]

Why would the Euro guys named by the USADA even bother to respond. I would guess they have not/will not. They will "do a Floyd". IE: that "hacking case".

Also, the USADA has said publicly that all the info they have is already in the Public Domain. Joe Public Domain. Nothing new. SSDD.

Lance can have a "closed hearing", but Joe Public has heard it all before time and time again. So not really "closed".

Or maybe Lance can just blow off the witch hunt SSDD hearing and hope the ASO would act rationally and ignore any witch hunt USADA sanctions. Why would the ASO tarnish the TdF by taking Lance off the Roll of Honor. Dumb. The ASO does NOT have to abide by the USADA. Oh no, the USADA will be mad at the ASO. The USADA will boycott the TdF. Who cares? Joe Public? The ASO would not care. Lance does not care.

 

[Oldman]

Why would the Euro guys named by the USADA even bother to respond. I would guess they have not/will not. They will "do a Floyd". IE: that "hacking case".

Also, the USADA has said publicly that all the info they have is already in the Public Domain. Joe Public Domain. Nothing new. SSDD.

Lance can have a "closed hearing", but Joe Public has heard it all before time and time again. So not really "closed".

Or maybe Lance can just blow off the witch hunt SSDD hearing and hope the ASO would act rationally and ignore any witch hunt USADA sanctions. Why would the ASO tarnish the TdF by taking Lance off the Roll of Honor. Dumb. The ASO does NOT have to abide by the USADA. Oh no, the USADA will be mad at the ASO. The USADA will boycott the TdF. Who cares? Joe Public? The ASO would not care. Lance does not care.

Your logic bubble is beginning to float away from reality a little too much.

 

[peterst6906]

Why would the ASO tarnish the TdF by taking Lance off the Roll of Honor.

If Lance is sanctioned for doping offences, why would ASO tarnish the TdF by keeping him on the Roll of Honor?

It still all has to play out, but if the evidence sticks and it is proven that LA doped (not just in the public domain, but in terms of official processes), then ASO would be harming the TdF by not removing his wins.

 

[college]

The next step for usada now that the review board have ruled to move forward will be what? Since the review board has made their ruling is it now time for some type of response from Lance?
These private investigators are probably busy looking into these cyclists who are the witnesses. My guess is that Lance and his legal team already know who the witnesses are playing up the fact that usada have not released evidence.
Does Floyd have any problems when the cross exam comes from Lance’s legal eagles? What about all those twitter posts? That might be information that would represent him as being unstable?

 

[red_flanders]

Also, the USADA has said publicly that all the info they have is already in the Public Domain.

That surprises me. Do you have a link to this statement or a report of it? I'd like to hear more about that.

 

[red_flanders]

TMy guess is that Lance and his legal team already know who the witnesses are playing up the fact that usada have not released evidence.

How would they know who the witnesses are other than a subset of anyone on the team during those years, riders or support? Pretty large group they/you have there.

The only way to narrow that down I'd think would be to take the subset of that group who were involved in the doping and were eyewitnesses. But that pretty much means that there was doping and there were eyewitnesses.

What other way would there be to narrow it down?

 

[henryg]

These private investigators are probably busy looking into these cyclists who are the witnesses. My guess is that Lance and his legal team already know who the witnesses are playing up the fact that usada have not released evidence.

So you think Lance is looking for dirt on Hincapie and the rest? He doesn't really need to have the USADA tell him who his team mates were. Maybe he is as big a ****** as you are making him out to be.

The USADA is following the rules. Lance's team can spin the PR any way they want that won't change the outcome. If Lance get's sanctioned all the PR and spin will get blown away by the tidal wave of media attention on the doping and lying and cheating. Then they will start looking at the intimidation, bullying, private behavior and everything else. This will be bigger then Lindsey Lohan, Barry bonds and John Edwards all rolled into one.

He won't be bullying or intimidating anyone once the spotlight is shining on the whole sordid, creepy mess.

 

[college]

How would they know who the witnesses are other than a subset of anyone on the team during those years, riders or support? Pretty large group they/you have there.

The only way to narrow that down I'd think would be to take the subset of that group who were involved in the doping and were eyewitnesses. But that pretty much means that there was doping and there were eyewitnesses.

What other way would there be to narrow it down?

I would think that a group of legal eagles who have a team of private investigators out and about will be able to come up with a list. We are all just posting on a forum where there are opinions about what is going to happen so on and so forth.
All of the suspected witnesses have been named on this thread in some post or another. There are probably private investigators in France checking into a few of the cyclist now.
Since you asked directly about what other way would there be to narrow it down. I will answer your question.
One way would be to know who went in to speak with the previous federal investigations grand jury. The other is to find out who the bald headed warrior Novitski interrogated in Europe. The usada’s tiegarts was there to observe. That would not be that difficult considering they made every move public, which was to intimidate Lance and his former teammates. Poposnitch is probably on the list because he would have been intimidated by the federal government during his interrogation.

 

[college]

So you think Lance is looking for dirt on Hincapie and the rest? He doesn't really need to have the USADA tell him who his team mates were. Maybe he is as big a ****** as you are making him out to be.

The USADA is following the rules. Lance's team can spin the PR any way they want that won't change the outcome. If Lance get's sanctioned all the PR and spin will get blown away by the tidal wave of media attention on the doping and lying and cheating. Then they will start looking at the intimidation, bullying, private behavior and everything else. This will be bigger then Lindsey Lohan, Barry bonds and John Edwards all rolled into one.

He won't be bullying or intimidating anyone once the spotlight is shining on the whole sordid, creepy mess.

If you think that the united states citizen who does not follow cycling is going to give two cents about this then you must be living somewhere besides the united states. Sure in Europe where cycling is followed much more closely than in the united states it will be as you have pointed out to me. I disagree with you that it will be bigger than John Edwards, Barry Bonds and Lindsey.

 

[MarkvW]

That surprises me. Do you have a link to this statement or a report of it? I'd like to hear more about that.

I think that the statement is false. In the USADA's letter, they said that they are not disclosing witnesses because of concerns that the witnesses will be tampered with. In Luskin's responses, he is complaining about the hidden evidence. Nobody other than Polish, AFAIK has ever made this assertion.

 

[Polish]

That surprises me. Do you have a link to this statement or a report of it? I'd like to hear more about that.

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/06/28/459...#storylink=cpy

Travis Tygart, USADA's chief executive officer, said in a statement his agency was complying with the wishes of the review board.

The board "has expressed concern about the potential for intimidation and retaliation against USADA's witnesses and as part of their review, has asked USADA to only provide additional evidence of doping that is already in the public domain.

"USADA will continue to follow the established procedures that are compliant with federal law and were approved by athletes, the U.S. Olympic Committee, and all Olympic sports organizations."

I found this "advice" from the 3 person review board NOT to use any insider info that they DO have. Only to use Joe Public Domain info.

Why aren't they using this other info? Maybe because they want to be "compliant with Federal Laws". To me that means the USADA has info they legally should not have oops. "Reveiw" Board says "better not use that info - stick to Joe Public Domain stuff. Lets not take a chance. Lance will file a Motion. Oh, but lets use the "Lance Intimidation" excuse.

But the USADA has now given Lance an Open Invitation for a Closed Hearing. Lance can truthfully say - 'Why should I let the USADA parade out all this old SSDD info that Joe Public already has? Just be another Witch Hunt.

"Joe Public is tired of hearing all these Witch Hunt stories. Joe Public KNOWS I have been tested 500 times without a fail. Joe Public KNOWS I was cleared by the Feds". ETC ETC ETC.

Also, the info that the USADA will not use - does it incriminate other riders? And will they be getting their sweet deals anyway. Probably a Star Chamber Secret.

 

[red_flanders]

I would think that a group of legal eagles who have a team of private investigators out and about will be able to come up with a list. We are all just posting on a forum where there are opinions about what is going to happen so on and so forth.
All of the suspected witnesses have been named on this thread in some post or another. There are probably private investigators in France checking into a few of the cyclist now.
Since you asked directly about what other way would there be to narrow it down. I will answer your question.
One way would be to know who went in to speak with the previous federal investigations grand jury. The other is to find out who the bald headed warrior Novitski interrogated in Europe. The usada’s tiegarts was there to observe. That would not be that difficult considering they made every move public, which was to intimidate Lance and his former teammates. Poposnitch is probably on the list because he would have been intimidated by the federal government during his interrogation.

That's a pretty different statement than:

My guess is that Lance and his legal team already know who the witnesses are playing up the fact that usada have not released evidence.

So you think that regardless of whether they know for sure who testified or having any idea what they said, (they're just guessing based the list of people they think Novitsky talk to), that Armstrong and his team are going to hound these people with private investigators? That's unbelievably slimy IMO.

 

[Polish]

I think that the statement is false. In the USADA's letter, they said that they are not disclosing witnesses because of concerns that the witnesses will be tampered with. In Luskin's responses, he is complaining about the hidden evidence. Nobody other than Polish, AFAIK has ever made this assertion.

Are you saying the USADA WILL present info that is NOT part of Public Domain. Seems to me they said they won't. If they do - isn't that lying?

 

[red_flanders]

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/06/28/459...#storylink=cpy



I found this "advice" from the 3 person review board NOT to use any insider info that they DO have. Only to use Joe Public Domain info.

Why aren't they using this other info? Maybe because they want to be "compliant with Federal Laws". To me that means the USADA has info they legally should not have oops. "Reveiw" Board says "better not use that info - stick to Joe Public Domain stuff. Lets not take a chance. Lance will file a Motion. Oh, but lets use the "Lance Intimidation" excuse.

But the USADA has now given Lance an Open Invitation for a Closed Hearing. Lance can truthfully say - 'Why should I let the USADA parade out all this old SSDD info that Joe Public already has? Just be another Witch Hunt.

"Joe Public is tired of hearing all these Witch Hunt stories. Joe Public KNOWS I have been tested 500 times without a fail. Joe Public KNOWS I was cleared by the Feds". ETC ETC ETC.

Also, the info that the USADA will not use - does it incriminate other riders? And will they be getting their sweet deals anyway. Probably a Star Chamber Secret.

The link goes to a 404 page, would be great if you could shorten (bit.ly) and post.

I think you misunderstand what's written. What the board says is not to reveal anything they have beyond what's in the public domain, not that there is no evidence or that they will not use evidence not in the public domain in the arbitration hearing. I think that's pretty clear, don't you? Do you agree?

 

[mewmewmew13]

The next step for usada now that the review board have ruled to move forward will be what? Since the review board has made their ruling is it now time for some type of response from Lance?
These private investigators are probably busy looking into these cyclists who are the witnesses. My guess is that Lance and his legal team already know who the witnesses are playing up the fact that usada have not released evidence.
Does Floyd have any problems when the cross exam comes from Lance’s legal eagles? What about all those twitter posts? That might be information that would represent him as being unstable?

The old 'unstable' ploy.
All 10+ witnesses unstable and bitter?

I'll bet Floyd didn't even twit most of those posts himself.

 

[Polish]

The link goes to a 404 page, would be great if you could shorten (bit.ly) and post.

I think you misunderstand what's written. What the board says is not to reveal anything they have beyond what's in the public domain, not that there is no evidence or that they will not use evidence not in the public domain in the arbitration hearing. I think that's pretty clear, don't you? Do you agree?

Sorry about the 404. The Hog posted this story upthread correctly, and it was discussed upthread too.

I think I can see where we disconnect though....

I read it as saying the USADA will not reveal any non-public domain stuff to the Arbitration Guys.

You seem to read it as the USADA will keep it secret from the Lance Gang but will reveal the inside info to the Arbitration Guys. That seems sneaky to me. Perverting justice. Lame excuse too...Lance intimidation. Lance should keep the hearing secret or blow it off imo. Serve the USADA right.

 

[131313]

Also, the USADA has said publicly that all the info they have is already in the Public Domain. Joe Public Domain. Nothing new. SSDD.

please stop lying

 

[thehog]

Good to see College threatening the PI's again.

As stated law enforcement authorities have been informed. Any form of witnesses intimidation direct or indirect will result in arrests.

 

[henryg]

If you think that the united states citizen who does not follow cycling is going to give two cents about this then you must be living somewhere besides the united states. Sure in Europe where cycling is followed much more closely than in the united states it will be as you have pointed out to me. I disagree with you that it will be bigger than John Edwards, Barry Bonds and Lindsey.

Actually although cycling is a minor blip on the radar in the USA, Armstrong is anything but. He is one of the most recognized athletes in the USA. The comeback from cancer to 7 tour wins, the Livestrong foundation, discovering the whole story was a fraud!!!- doping, international money laundering, strippers and coke, famous girl friends -it's tabloid scandal heaven. Be great for cycling in the USA.

I'm hoping after the whole thing goes to hell for LA that he sells a tell all book for millions to some publisher -naming names and providing every detail of the whole dirty rotten system. He could even start a new foundation to keep young athletes off dope. Of course there would be a .com profit making business side to it as well

 

[Race Radio]

If you think that the united states citizen who does not follow cycling is going to give two cents about this then you must be living somewhere besides the united states. Sure in Europe where cycling is followed much more closely than in the united states it will be as you have pointed out to me. I disagree with you that it will be bigger than John Edwards, Barry Bonds and Lindsey.

Yup, that is how all sanctions should be handled, as a popularity contest. They should be based on ratings....like television.

 

[TubularBills]

The consensus here is that LA would likely want to keep things private, but what of the others who are under investigation? Suppose Pepe Marti, for instance, who presumably has a much smaller role in the alleged conspiracy than do the others, decides he's had enough of this nonsense. What if he wants an open hearing, even if the others do not?.

Brilliant first post! Welcome aboard.

Others may have thought it (probably not), you make an excellent point and the first to broach a compelling option... ???

Well done.

Turns the tables doesn't it. Open forum.

edit.

Anyone have some opinions on why a guilty party might want a member of his cohort, i.e. the most guilty, to air his dirty laundry in public?

 

[Race Radio]

Are you saying the USADA WILL present info that is NOT part of Public Domain. Seems to me they said they won't. If they do - isn't that lying?

Yes, you are lying

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...es-against-Armstrong-Bruyneel-and-others.aspx

USADA issued a statement saying that there was a reason why more evidence wasn’t communicated at this point in time.

“The ADRB has expressed concern about the potential for intimidation and retaliation against USADA’s witnesses and as part of their review, has asked USADA to only provide additional evidence of doping that is already in the public domain.”

It meant that further evidence would be brought forward at a later point in time, once the charges were approved.

USADA’s case is known to include witness testimony from at least ten cyclists. Landis and Hamilton are almost certainly amongst those, and both already have failed doping tests. However it is thought that many of the others don't have such questions over their past.

 

[Polish]

please stop lying

C'mon 13131313, no reason to call me a liar. Call me wrong or ignoramus or mistaken, but liar is a bit off base.

Seriously, I would have passed a lie detector test on my understanding until Red Flanders offered me another interpretation. Now I think I may be mistaken? Not sure truthfully .And when/if USADA unveils some info outside of all the reams of Public Domain stuff - you can say "see I told you so". Although the USADA secret info will be wrong most likely. Hey, my George Castanza approved lie detector did NOT go off.

 

[Polish]

Yes, you are lying

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...es-against-Armstrong-Bruyneel-and-others.aspx

Sorry to disappoint you RR, but you are wrong. I was not lying.

BTW, is the myth that "Lance flushed Floyd's Blood out of spite" still part of the public domain. And the $500,000 bribe myth? Bogus Public Domain stuff.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

The link goes to a 404 page, would be great if you could shorten (bit.ly) and post.

CBS Sport June 28, 2012 8:57 PM ET
http://www.cbssports.com/general/st...h-part-of-usada-doping-case-against-armstrong
has that quote