Usain Bolt/Carl Lewis

[darwin553]

Ban the entire nation if they keep this crap up.

Competition when doped isn't fair. That is just a joke. Accident? Coincidence? Hell no! Deliberate and planned. Of course in the preceding 3 months before the Olympics, Jamaica had no people in key roles needed for testing! BS sonny boy!

Troll some more for us Jamaica. Troll some more.

That is just utterly ridiculous. One of the worst posts I have ever seen

I will concede that, at one level, it does matter that doping controls are at an appropriate standard at the nation level, but even if it isn't, it shouldn't preclude an athlete from competing or training to one day compete if the doping controls at a world level will provide that necessary disincentive to dope initially because they will eventually be caught down the line.

 

[thrawn]

That is just utterly ridiculous. One of the worst posts I have ever seen

I will concede that, at one level, it does matter that doping controls are at an appropriate standard at the nation level, but even if it isn't, it shouldn't preclude an athlete from competing or training to one day compete if the doping controls at a world level will provide that necessary disincentive to dope initially because they will eventually be caught down the line.

How is it ridiculous? Clearly it was designed to make sure none of their stars tested positive before the Olympics. The fact that quite a few of the athletes have since tested positive makes it highly probable that they are running a nation-wide, and association sanctioned doping program.

 

[taiwan]

That is just utterly ridiculous. One of the worst posts I have ever seen

I will concede that, at one level, it does matter that doping controls are at an appropriate standard at the nation level, but even if it isn't, it shouldn't preclude an athlete from competing or training to one day compete if the doping controls at a world level will provide that necessary disincentive to dope initially because they will eventually be caught down the line.

How are they going to be caught down the line if their OOC tests continue to be the responsibility of the Jamaican ADA?

 

[darwin553]

How is it ridiculous? Clearly it was designed to make sure none of their stars tested positive before the Olympics. The fact that quite a few of the athletes have since tested positive makes it highly probable that they are running a nation-wide, and association sanctioned doping program.

And what about the clean Jamaican athletes? Should they just be punished for the minority of the athletes' ill-advised ways or the improper controls of the nation's athletic sporting bodies? Of course not

 

[thrawn]

And what about the clean Jamaican athletes? Should they just be punished for the minority of the athletes' ill-advised ways or the improper controls of the nation's athletic sporting bodies? Of course not

Which ones? Their whole sprint team is on the program.

 

[darwin553]

Which ones? Their whole sprint team is on the program.

It is? Ban them, ban them all I say...

 

[Race Radio]

That is just utterly ridiculous. One of the worst posts I have ever seen

I will concede that, at one level, it does matter that doping controls are at an appropriate standard at the nation level, but even if it isn't, it shouldn't preclude an athlete from competing or training to one day compete if the doping controls at a world level will provide that necessary disincentive to dope initially because they will eventually be caught down the line.

It is not ridiculous, it is an option for the IOC. They have discussed it on the specific level and on the Fed level. There was even a movement several years ago within the IOC to drop the UCI.

While Jamaica is the most obvious target today Turkey or Russia would likely be ahead of them in the race to get decertified.

 

[darwin553]

It is not ridiculous, it is an option for the IOC. They have discussed it on the specific level and on the Fed level. There was even a movement several years ago within the IOC to drop the UCI.

While Jamaica is the most obvious target today Turkey or Russia would likely be ahead of them in the race to get decertified.

What about Britain with all the hoo-haa around here?

 

[martinvickers]

It is not ridiculous, it is an option for the IOC. They have discussed it on the specific level and on the Fed level. There was even a movement several years ago within the IOC to drop the UCI.

While Jamaica is the most obvious target today Turkey or Russia would likely be ahead of them in the race to get decertified.

Turks and Russians have other issues than Jamaica, and other results. RUSADA are announcing quite stunning numbers of positives - 28 yesterday I think, and several World class athletes in last few months. Are they coming through Moscow lab or Koln?

On the one hand, the sheer numbers are disheartinging - there are clearly, at best, pockets of significant and deliberate abuse (certain training groups, coaches rotten to the core)...on the other, the sheer number is encouraging - quite a lot of people are getting caught, and not all of them are nobodies - well, the might be nobodies to anglocentrics, but on a world scale, no.

Jamaica's non-existant anti-doping program is another matter entirely. Significant numbers of positives, mostly coming through IAAF rather than Jamaica, and no proper testing routines. All disheartening, nothing encouraging.

WADA is in a bind, in a sense; it relies on National feds and ADO's. Some have a decent rep and seem to care. (Germany, maybe France and UK). Some, its hard to say (USA), some just don't seem to give a damn - (JAM). THere's always room for 'homerism' - be it just doing nothing (Jam) accepting bullsh!t excuses as the US and UK have been known to do, to just plain corruption as in Moscow Lab.

I wonder whether we need a 'double lab', 'double fed' system - were tests are run by national ADO's in conjunction with other ADO's, so JAM can't hide, for example, and all tests are split between two labs, so say Moscow lab can't hid positives?

We certainly need more funding

 

[Galic Ho]

That is just utterly ridiculous. One of the worst posts I have ever seen

I will concede that, at one level, it does matter that doping controls are at an appropriate standard at the nation level, but even if it isn't, it shouldn't preclude an athlete from competing or training to one day compete if the doping controls at a world level will provide that necessary disincentive to dope initially because they will eventually be caught down the line.

RUN THE NUMBERS FOR ME!

The link says 1 out of competition test. The only other tests were at the national trials.

Now take a guess how many the USA, who we all know doesn't do enough did?

Or try and tell us how a nation of roughly 3 million people, manages to collectively whip EVERY other nation on the planet in a select sport?

Lemme guess...your answer is genetics? Maybe 1 guy might be the best. Even less likely one guy and one woman from the same country. But no, even with Blake, Powell, Fraser-Pryce and countless others out, Jamaica still cleaned up the sprinting. Virtual wash over. The men won FOUR out of 6 medals in the 100m and 200m.

Run those numbers by me champ one more time. Statistically IMPOSSIBLE if you're clean. DOPING. Not just a little, but SO MUCH that NOBODY else stands a chance. Oh and in case you haven't realised, it isn't accidental. It's deliberate. Planned. They're not even making an effort to test. So until they do, they should be banned. Let the Jamaican's race themselves if this is the crap they want to pull. Heck make that EVERY nation. Not just them.

Russia is catching dopers ATM. Turkey is. Italy is. Oh but they ACTUALLY test. Sure there are bad eggs and corruption but they CATCH people. Jamaica darwin556...they do not even TEST. Wake up man and get with the program!!! This is even worse than what Armstrong or Sky have done. At least they were bloody TESTED! Jamaica? Nope.

And to think my post is bad! Whatever man...I thought you were learning. Maybe not at the rate I hoped. But do understand, I don't hate Jamaica, but a playing field this uneven! I don't care who...BAN THE ENTIRE NATION. They'll start pulling their act together. It's not about wanting to spend money. It is about wanting to make MORE MONEY and to do that, they have to test as little as possible. Why? Because it's just a doping haven in the Caribbean right now.

 

[Galic Ho]

And what about the clean Jamaican athletes? Should they just be punished for the minority of the athletes' ill-advised ways or the improper controls of the nation's athletic sporting bodies? Of course not

Do not drink the bong water whilst posting in the Clinic!

As thrawn said...what clean athletes?

Do you have any idea how far outside the norm the Jamaican's B grade athletes times are? You know, the ones YOU might try and say are clean, but comparative to lets say the Aussie champs, still flog them. These B grade Jamaicans cannot make the team because the A graders are SO UBER DOPED it isn't funny.

So if you take the A crop out, what happens? Oh that's right, they put the B crop on the juice and they're still too fast. Any clean Jamaican athlete ain't running below 10.1 in the mens 100m and 11.2 in the womens 100m. Wanna know why? Because that is the clean limit for practically EVERYONE regardless of genetics.

Go take a look at how fast the Aussie womens 100m champ runs. She is HALF A second off medalling in the finals on her seasons PB. Then take a look at Carmelita Jeter...the American darling who hit the big time when she roided up. Look at her pre 2005 photos next to AFTER. Big difference. Also look at her times. She use to run a PB of 11.48 I think...now she is 0.7 faster. The Aussie champs PB is 11.28. Clean versus doped.

To find a CLEAN Jamaican, assuming one could find themselves in a situation where they could qualify for the Worlds or Olympics, one thing can be assured. They're not gonna be any faster than the other clean athletes and yes, that means Caucasians would and could beat them.

I agree RR has a point about Turkey and Russia. But isn't what they're doing now, busting big numbers, an act of appeasement? Throw enough into the pit to redeem the whole country? Russia after all have a winter Olympics in 170 odd days and I remember reading about large numbers of their athletes being put in the hurt locker for dodgy samples 2 years back. I know Russia is being picked on...but they are catching people.

As I see it, if you can't demonstrate even a **** poor effort at implementing a testing program, then you should be black listed till you do. If they need money...then ASK. I haven't heard anyone say the IOC should be giving countries money for drug testing. IMO they should, along with independent sporting bodies. We all know they make a killing on tv royalties.

 

[Galic Ho]

What about Britain with all the hoo-haa around here?

They hosted the Olympics. They setup the main lab for Olympic testing. One does not hold an Olympics and simply NOT test their own athletes. Try and keep up dude.

What they do however do is find ways to GET AROUND the tests. Dope but pass. I don't think this concept should be foreign to you anymore; you have been in the Clinic long enough now to GET IT.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Jamaica's non-existant anti-doping program is another matter entirely. Significant numbers of positives, mostly coming through IAAF rather than Jamaica, and no proper testing routines. All disheartening, nothing encouraging.

The message from WADA has been that the national federations are hiding positives. It has been for a while. The recent positives amount to national doping programs. That should surprise no one. The beauty of it is like Jamaica's system, a dope-enabler can distract people by showing them the rules and pretend-infrastructure and keep up appearances for very little money. It's just like a movie set.

WADA is in a bind, in a sense; it relies on National feds and ADO's.

That is by design. It fits into the IOC's strategy of controlling doping controversy, not doping. WADA is a weak agency and has been since inception. Fix the problem by allowing WADA to open cases through NADOs.

 

[DirtyWorks]

They hosted the Olympics. They setup the main lab for Olympic testing. One does not hold an Olympics and simply NOT test their own athletes. Try and keep up dude.

What they do however do is find ways to GET AROUND the tests. Dope but pass. I don't think this concept should be foreign to you anymore; you have been in the Clinic long enough now to GET IT.

This reply isn't a crticism, just a reminder: The ancient story about Hein Verbruggen demanding France relax it's doping rules in order for Paris' Summer Games bid is any indicator, having a WADA-certified lab in-country is theater.

A country can both host the Olympics and enable doping. The national sports federation can not open a case, notify the athlete they need to "rest" a bit before the games. It is well known that athletes that arrive later to games do so to pass tests. Alternatively, test athletes but use the easiest to defeat tests.

Never tested positive has never been so easy!

 

[uspostal]

Bolt/Lewis

Just a quick question, how did this country just pop up on the track scene in the last 10 yrs? Before 2000, Jamaica's track athletes were best know for pushing a bob sled during the winter olympics. Just my .02 worth

 

[sniper]

It is not ridiculous, it is an option for the IOC. They have discussed it on the specific level and on the Fed level. There was even a movement several years ago within the IOC to drop the UCI.

While Jamaica is the most obvious target today Turkey or Russia would likely be ahead of them in the race to get decertified.

I read somewhere about 4000 ooc tests over 2012(?) in the US, vs. 100 in Jamaica. If you take the number of athletes per country, that sort of looks pretty equal to me. Equally poor, that is.
Of course, the picture is different (and worse for Jamaica) if we look only at olympic athletes.
Still, though, the US didn't look particularly well in those ooc charts.

 

[martinvickers]

I read somewhere about 4000 ooc tests over 2012(?) in the US, vs. 100 in Jamaica. If you take the number of athletes per country, that sort of looks pretty equal to me. Equally poor, that is.
Of course, the picture is different (and worse for Jamaica) if we look only at olympic athletes.
Still, though, the US didn't look particularly well in those ooc charts.

USA had 545 OOC tests on T & F Athletes alone in the three months before the 2012 Games. GB had 87 OOC tests on T & F Athletes alone in that period, slightly down on the 'standard' just over a hundred because of preperations to host the games. Canada, for example, had 54.

Jamaica had 1. Not 1 Hundred. 1 test. In BY FAR their most important sport, medal wise.

It doesn't mean Jamaicans dope per se. But it is unacceptable.

 

[mikeoneill]

Just a quick question, how did this country just pop up on the track scene in the last 10 yrs? Before 2000, Jamaica's track athletes were best know for pushing a bob sled during the winter olympics. Just my .02 worth

not quite

they had quite a few expats and jamaican descendants successful

donovan bailey

linford christie

ben johnson

colin jackson

merlene ottey

don quarrie

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Pretty much all of the high profile Jamaican's have already tested positive (Bolt being the exception) so there's not really much to debate is there?

 

[mikeoneill]

the women won a bunch of medals in sprints and relays sydney 2000

VCB gold womens 200 2004

they're faster now alright and winning a lot more with the new drugs and the lax ooc testing

but they've been here before



i think it was around 2008 they really stepped up with peds and performances......

 

[martinvickers]

Just a quick question, how did this country just pop up on the track scene in the last 10 yrs? Before 2000, Jamaica's track athletes were best know for pushing a bob sled during the winter olympics. Just my .02 worth

Not a great 2c, to be honest.

Jamaica, between 1948 and 1996, got 5g, 14s and 8 bronze medals in sprint (1-400m), or sprint relay events at the Olympics - 27 medals in thirteeen games.

Pre 2000, jamaican's also tended to pop up in other countries teams - Christie, Ben Johnson, Donavon Bailey, Richards-Ross, Charmaine crookes.

Or maybe you've never heard of Don Quarrie or Herb McKenley...

 

[roundabout]

Pretty much all of the high profile Jamaican's have already tested positive (Bolt being the exception) so there's not really much to debate is there?

Fraser-Pryce is still kicking. I mean running.

 

[roundabout]

Not a great 2c, to be honest.

Jamaica, between 1948 and 1996, got 5g, 14s and 8 bronze medals in sprint (1-400m), or sprint relay events at the Olympics - 27 medals in thirteeen games.

Pre 2000, jamaican's also tended to pop up in other countries teams - Christie, Ben Johnson, Donavon Bailey, Richards-Ross, Charmaine crookes.

Or maybe you've never heard of Don Quarrie or Herb McKenley...

They also won something like 23 medals in the last 2 Olympics so he kinda has a point.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Fraser-Pryce is still kicking. I mean running.

Yes, she's back from her ban. Can anyone remember such a short athlete dominating at 200m?

 

[roundabout]

Heh. I forgot that she was caught already. Pretty ballsy of her to do the triple with a prior ban.