Usain Bolt/Carl Lewis

[ChewbaccaD]

I heavily snipped you post, since it was filled with unsupported counters to my supported claims, and thus completely useless to furthering the conversation.

Yes, they have studied why people with West African heritage perform better in explosive events like sprinting. Yes they have found physiological differences that give them advantage. Muscle type, bone length ratios, even angle of pelvis. A good, popular book that sums up a lot of this is "Taboo: why black athletes dominate sports, and why we're afraid to talk about it". Interesting science worth learning more about once you are done saying I am "full of ****" for mentioning those facts.

And you missed my point about the 1948-1952 olympic 400m. Jamaica won gold and silver in 1948, thus had the two top long-sprinters in the world. In 1952 they went 1-2-5 in the same race, and the winner was not part of the 1-2 in 1948. That's THREE different top long sprinters in the world, from a nation of less than 1.5 million people (at the time). We can't know for sure, but based on track and cycling history we expect there was no advanced doping anywhere back then, and Jamaica was so poor it is very, very unlikely that they would have been ahead or even equal to the doping done in any other country.

Funny, I don't see a reference to any "support" for your points regarding the supposed superior genetic development of inhabitants of the island of Jamaica... other than your insistence that you have a point. You don't. Like I said, keep searching, you're bound to run into something sometime. Even a blind squirrel gets a nut sooner or later...But please, stop with the lazy references to "they" and actually cite the source of this mythical cadre of scientists who have determined this genetic superiority of which you speak.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I heavily snipped you post, since it was filled with unsupported counters to my supported claims, and thus completely useless to furthering the conversation.

Yes, they have studied why people with West African heritage perform better in explosive events like sprinting. Yes they have found physiological differences that give them advantage. Muscle type, bone length ratios, even angle of pelvis. A good, popular book that sums up a lot of this is "Taboo: why black athletes dominate sports, and why we're afraid to talk about it". Interesting science worth learning more about once you are done saying I am "full of ****" for mentioning those facts.

And you missed my point about the 1948-1952 olympic 400m. Jamaica won gold and silver in 1948, thus had the two top long-sprinters in the world. In 1952 they went 1-2-5 in the same race, and the winner was not part of the 1-2 in 1948. That's THREE different top long sprinters in the world, from a nation of less than 1.5 million people (at the time). We can't know for sure, but based on track and cycling history we expect there was no advanced doping anywhere back then, and Jamaica was so poor it is very, very unlikely that they would have been ahead or even equal to the doping done in any other country.

That book Taboo doesn't provide support for your point. It is a book (by a journalist) that absolutely and positively DOES NOT indicate that there is some genetic mutation taking place on the island of Jamaica that enables their athletes to run superior times to other people of West African descent who live in other nations. Try again. Your thesis is that there has been a genetic mutation on the island of Jamaica that allows their runners to win, not that West Africans have superior genetics when it comes to athletics...though I see you are trying to morph your argument from your original point, the intertubes never forgets, so lets get back to you providing references for your original point on the superiority of sprinters from Jamaica, mmmkay?

EDIT: Please note too that the book you cite has its critics...a lot of them actually...

 

[Race Radio]

and it just gets worse.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/23/sports/research-finds-wide-doping-study-withheld.html?_r=1&

Pound's statements are valid

“There is no general appetite to undertake the effort and expense of a successful effort to deliver doping-free sport.”

Regarding my comments on Russia and Turkey. As I understand it the recent rash of positives were the result of exposing a coverup by the Fed where they actually assisted the Athletes dope and not test positive. There is a current, and valid, discussion of tossing Turkey out of the IAAF

 

[The Hitch]

Reading now the bits of the media now talk about Jamaicas lack of drug testing, can't help but make one feel that "the clinic" does actually get things very right some times.

Questions around Jamaicas drug testing programme have been asked by some sensible posters on here, for the last 3 years and the case has been made with the limit info available that Jamaica didnt seem to have much anti doping at all.

It now turns out they were right on the money.

Amazing how a bunch of internet losers making stuff up actually knew more about the programme behind the worlds greatest superstar the whole time, than all those journos.... "the true beacons of intelligence"

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Disgusted by the article:

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/othersport/425540/Clean-cut-Usain-Bolt-shows-his-class-in-Zurich

Surprise, surprise a 1/2 for the Jamaicand with Nickel Ashmeade coming in second.

 

[Almeisan]

You didn't watch 'Survival of the fastest' by Channel 4 with Michael Johnson?

Explores if maybe the whole process slaves were put through put some genetic pressure on certain features.

 

[TheBean]

The question of selective breeding for superior slave stock is (other than it's disgusting moral implications) not well documented.

Most selective breeding, from what I understand, had to do with resistance to disease rather than increased burst performance. Some slave owners did try to breed out persoanlity traits they found less desirable.

In the case of Bolt and the other Jamaicans, I put more stock in the fact that there is no Jamaican equivalent to the NBA, NFL, MLB, MLS, or any other lucrative endeavor that capitolizeson speed. For them, it is track or nothing.

When studying exercise physiology at University of Florida back in the 80's,there were several Jamaicans in the program who were grooming themselves to be world-class coaches. Those guys studied hard, took their sport very seriously, and led our class in many ways. They were inspirational in their focus and dedication to their sport and its development.

Raw talent + excellent coaching = good results. Maybe doped and maybe not, but they have an impressive program either way.

 

[oldcrank]

<edit>
Take a look at who finished with a silver medal in the mens 200m in Mexico City in 68. An Aussie. Right between two men of African American descent.
<edit>
Guess what Bolt won as a junior? The 400m. Then he TRANSFORMED into a 100m/200m guy.
<edit>

Regarding Peter George Norman: http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2012/s3571974.htm

Regarding Usain St. Leo Bolt: while it is true he was a 200/400
runner when he was young, his successes at the world level in
youth and junior were in the 200 as was his first senior success
at the world level.

 

[rhubroma]

According to all the evidence, blacks run faster, whites cycle faster...so what means superior? Why is it that some disciplines are culturally embedded and others less so? Nature or environment? Even if the question is irrelavent.

 

[TheBean]

According to all the evidence, blacks run faster, whites cycle faster...so what means superior? Why is it that some disciplines are culturally embedded and others less so? Nature or environment? Even if the question is irrelavent.

Sorry, rhubroma, but ALL the evidence does not point in that direction. MOST anecdotal evidence does, true.

It used to be said that whites were better golfers. Anecdotally, that was true. Then, along came Tiger and a lot of Asian golfers, both male and female.

It used to be said that whites were better tennis players, then the Williams sisters and others came along.

A popular joke here in the US was "What is going on in the world when the best golfer is black and the best basketball player is Chinese?" - Yao Ming.

 

[The Hitch]

According to all the evidence, blacks run faster, whites cycle faster...so what means superior? Why is it that some disciplines are culturally embedded and others less so? Nature or environment? Even if the question is irrelavent.

We dont know that white cycles faster.
Black people are less likely to become the best in cycling because it's not a sport that has much traction in black communities

also black isn't neccearily faster than white. A certain type of afro carribean people are faster. Another type of afro carribean people are faster over long distances but probably worse than other races including some whites over short distances.

 

[red_flanders]

Let's move away from the race discussion. Thanks.

 

[willbick]

Let's move away from the race discussion. Thanks.

Are u squirming comfortably? Lol

 

[miguelsol]

Dean Karnazes is biologically superior

What do you guys make of ultra long distance runner Karnazes, who can run for days without getting tired? Time to get him on a bike?


http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst...an-run-forever

 

[silverrocket]

Let's move away from the race discussion. Thanks.

Why?

If admins/mods don't explain the reasoning behind their "commands" we will never learn to moderate ourselves.

 

[sittingbison]

Why?

If admins/mods don't explain the reasoning behind their "commands" we will never learn to moderate ourselves.

"race, colour or creed" springs to mind...

 

[happychappy]

A popular joke here in the US was "What is going on in the world when the best golfer is black and the best basketball player is Chinese?" - Yao Ming.

Answer: white people suck.

 

[hfer07]

According to all the evidence, blacks run faster, whites cycle faster...so what means superior? Why is it that some disciplines are culturally embedded and others less so? Nature or environment? Even if the question is irrelavent.

 

[Race Radio]

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-newsbreak-world-doping-agency-probing-jamaica

WADA Probing Jamica

 

[Briant_Gumble]

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-newsbreak-world-doping-agency-probing-jamaica

WADA Probing Jamica

Good to see.

Renee Anne Shirley is the Jamaican Betsy Andreu, Dr Herbert Ellioy deserves a comeuppance for describing her as "a bit demented" and "judas" the nationalistic ***.