Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[Afrank]

He says Wiggins is better climber than Nibali because in TdF 2012 Nibali got 0 seconds over Wiggins in mountains.

Also, about palmares, 1 TdF is not equal with 1 Giro or 1 Vuelta. Not all GT's are equal

What mountains?

Seriously though, in 2012 Wiggins had one great year where he had the form and climbing ability to beat most everybody else that he competed with. But the next year he was back down to his old climbing level and Nibali beat him easily.

Looking at a comparison of the two in mountain stages on CQ in fact, Nibali come ahead more often. So in 2012, Yes Wiggins climbing>Nibali's climbing, but overall it's Nibali>Wiggins.

As for palmares, Nibali also has 4 podiums against Wiggins 1 podium. Sure, Wiggins may have the Tour; but personally I'd take 2 GT wins + 4 podiums over Wiggins 1 GT win and 1 podium any day.

 

[Eshnar]

What mountains?

Seriously though, in 2012 Wiggins had one great year where he had the form and climbing ability to beat most everybody else that he competed with. But the next year he was back down to his old climbing level and Nibali beat him easily.

Looking at a comparison of the two in mountain stages on CQ in fact, Nibali come ahead more often. So in 2012, Yes Wiggins climbing>Nibali's climbing, but overall it's Nibali>Wiggins.

As for palmares, Nibali also has 3 podiums against Wiggins 1 podium. Sure, Wiggins may have the Tour; but personally I'd take 2 GT wins + 3 podiums over Wiggins 1 GT win and 1 podium any day.

4 podiums, counting today's one.

 

[Afrank]

Oh yeah, whoops, will edit.

 

[movingtarget]

Remember: when Nibali drops a top climber --> the top climber was sick, injured, not in good shape, had a mechanical or most likely all of these things together.
When a top climber drops Nibali --> Nibali is just a level below.

This is the basic rule to judge every Nibali's performance. And of course always keep Ryo's top30 climbers cheatsheet handy.

I would not be too worried about that opinion. He's well inside the top 30 which is a joke. I would have to say he is inside the top 6 climbers who can win a GT which is still a small group even though riders like Evans, Cobo, Wiggins and Hesjedal have won a GT. None of which would be called the best climbers but their all round talents are impressive. Cobo of course is the enigma in the GT winners club based on overall results but according to others he had a lot of talent when younger and I think he had some health problems. Others have a different opinion of course on Cobo.

 

[Arredondo]

What mountains?

Seriously though, in 2012 Wiggins had one great year where he had the form and climbing ability to beat most everybody else that he competed with. But the next year he was back down to his old climbing level and Nibali beat him easily.

Looking at a comparison of the two in mountain stages on CQ in fact, Nibali come ahead more often. So in 2012, Yes Wiggins climbing>Nibali's climbing, but overall it's Nibali>Wiggins.

As for palmares, Nibali also has 4 podiums against Wiggins 1 podium. Sure, Wiggins may have the Tour; but personally I'd take 2 GT wins + 4 podiums over Wiggins 1 GT win and 1 podium any day.

A Tour is not comparable to any other race, how spectaculair the Vuelta or Giro is.

 

[Peccio89]

6 GT podiums in a 4 years span, this is a level of consistency that none of the guys cited in the list of better GT rider will probably ever reach.
Last time someone was able to do something better than this was Indurain( with 8 podiums in 4 years ).

So stop saying he is mediocre and the rest of the field was really bad or in awfull shape, if you podium 6 times in 4 years it is talent.

 

[maxmartin]

He says Wiggins is better climber than Nibali because in TdF 2012 Nibali got 0 seconds over Wiggins in mountains.

Also, about palmares, 1 TdF is not equal with 1 Giro or 1 Vuelta. Not all GT's are equal

Lmao, the only gt win which was gifted by his teammate. Anyone think wiggins is a GREAT gt rider has serious mental problem, and should be kept away from general public.

 

[Arredondo]

6 GT podiums in a 4 years span, this is a level of consistency that none of the guys cited in the list of better GT rider will probably ever reach.
Last time someone was able to do something better than this was Indurain( with 8 podiums in 4 years ).

So stop saying he is mediocre and the rest of the field was really bad or in awfull shape, if you podium 6 times in 4 years it is talent.

I am not denying that he's one of the best GT riders, but not the best climber, that's all.

Purito has finished 4/7 GT on the podium, so Nibali is not the only one. Nibbles of course won two of them, so he's got the better track record.

 

[webbie146]

It's safe to say that Nibali's climbing this year has improved. He looks to be around 2/3 kg lighter then previous seasons, while retaining the same wattage output. His TT has also improved, that's probably mostly contributed to the better and more aero TT position. He's a great all rounder.

btw Nibali and Valverde seem to be getting along pretty well I noticed
Valverde even gave a coke to Nibali on the Angliru, nice gesture ^-^

Also it was pretty cool to see that when Nibali went on the attack those 2 guys from the break helped him for a few meters, cool stuff. I think Nibali is liked a lot in the peloton.

 

[TANK91]

Lmao, the only gt win which was gifted by his teammate. Anyone think wiggins is a GREAT gt rider has serious mental problem, and should be kept away from general public.

Come on now I think Nibali is better, but seriously "Gifted". Take CF out the race and Wiggins wins, Chris Froome on another team Wiggins wins. Just because Froome was stronger on the climbs does not mean he can put all the time in with those massive ITT's. Wiggins was also the 2nd best climber, people will say he got towed by Chris Froome, but I dint see no one else staying with him. Ok Froome could have put time in but Wiggo was still worthy winner. And when you only take part in mainly 1 GT since 09, 4th place(3rd?) Vuelta Podium and a win in 2012. What is not great about that. I don't even like Wiggins after his antics I always favourd Froome but come on now don't talk silly.

 

[TANK91]

Nibali has the heart of a champion I should have become a fan earlier I don't no why I did not because I like many Italian Gt riders, Basso being my favourite. But the guy was mega yday its easy saying after the fact but maybe just maybe would he have been able to hang on to Horner all the way to the top and beat him in sprint?

The only thing with that strategy surely Horner would not have worked he would have let the break keep going for the bonus, no?


One thing I do think is a valid statement though is that I know his WATTS were down and they say he aims for WC. But surely it still should have been enough because if you look closer, he rode Poland and Burgos surely great prep? And Valverde and Purito had the Tour in the legs so should the gap not have been bigger to them guys? I personally think yes but who knows. As 1 minute or whatever it was is not huge when they do 2 back to back GT's?

 

[maxmartin]

It's safe to say that Nibali's climbing this year has improved. He looks to be around 2/3 kg lighter then previous seasons, while retaining the same wattage output. His TT has also improved, that's probably mostly contributed to the better and more aero TT position. He's a great all rounder.

btw Nibali and Valverde seem to be getting along pretty well I noticed
Valverde even gave a coke to Nibali on the Angliru, nice gesture ^-^

Also it was pretty cool to see that when Nibali went on the attack those 2 guys from the break helped him for a few meters, cool stuff. I think Nibali is liked a lot in the peloton.

Nibali is generally well liked in the peloton, I have not heard anyone has bad things to say about Nibali.

 

[rantanplan]

Having Tiralongo and Jacob ahead maybe he must tried in the Cordal.... but that´s easy to say now

 

[webvan]

They were useless for sure in the Angliru, a timing problem...still, he went down with a (big) fight so that made for a better show for us...

 

[maxmartin]

"Vincenzo Nibali and Filippo Pozzato expected to lead a team of experienced riders in the difficult 272km road race on Sunday September 29."

I was hoping Nibali and Ulissi will be the co-leaders.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nibali-and-pozzato-named-to-italian-world-championship-team

 

[Angliru]

Come on now I think Nibali is better, but seriously "Gifted". Take CF out the race and Wiggins wins, Chris Froome on another team Wiggins wins. Just because Froome was stronger on the climbs does not mean he can put all the time in with those massive ITT's. Wiggins was also the 2nd best climber, people will say he got towed by Chris Froome, but I dint see no one else staying with him. Ok Froome could have put time in but Wiggo was still worthy winner. And when you only take part in mainly 1 GT since 09, 4th place(3rd?) Vuelta Podium and a win in 2012. What is not great about that. I don't even like Wiggins after his antics I always favourd Froome but come on now don't talk silly.

Winning one Tour does automatically qualify you for greatness.

 

[Eshnar]

Winning one Tour does automatically qualify you for greatness.

Yeah, like the great GT rider Pereiro.

 

[Angliru]

Winning one Tour doesnot automatically qualify you for greatness.

There definitely should have been a "not" in there!

 

[Eshnar]

There definitely should have been a "not" in there!

oh ok

 

[movingtarget]

Yeah, like the great GT rider Pereiro.

That was not Pereiro's fault. Only idiots gift a top 10 GC rider a 20 minute break and Landis was on the rocket fuel. Of course it took it took some pretty strange events for Pereiro to get the win. Probably one of the weirdest GTs of recent times.

 

[Eshnar]

That was not Pereiro's fault. Only idiots gift a top 10 GC rider a 20 minute break and Landis was on the rocket fuel. Of course it took it took some pretty strange events for Pereiro to get the win. Probably one of the weirdest GTs of recent times.

I didn't say he did anything wrong. But his win didn't guarantee to him any "greatness"

 

[movingtarget]

I didn't say he did anything wrong. But his win didn't guarantee to him any "greatness"

No more than Hesjedal I would think, less so because of the events.

 

[greenedge]

The parcours was favoring Horner and it's the first time in many years (if ever) that a pure climber wins a GT. You can also throw in the mix the fact that Horner, amazingly, didn't had one single bad day.

But I personally got over it, yesterday it was a fantastic display, he's only 28 and I'm sure, if he's healthy, we will see many many great GTs with Vincenzo.

I don't say he isn't a great champion. I think one of the best allrounders of the sport, beautiful to see him fight for the victory, even in a MSR. Last years Tour Nibali wasn't better than Wiggo in the mountains. The French climbs suits Wiggo as well als Nibali, Nibbles however is the better on the steeper climbs.

The discussion was not about who is the better GT rider, which i think is Nibbles, if there is a time trial in it. In the Vuelta of 2010 Purito was a couple of seconds faster after all the mountain stages, and even with a Tour in his legs. The time trial screwed his chances completely, but hey, a GT without a TT isn't a real GT. The only thing i want to make clear is that Nibbles is not the better climber than guys like Purito and Valverde.

Valverde has a bigger palmares comparing Nibbles, winning a Vuelta, 2x LBL, Fleche, 2x Dauphine, Clasica.

Maybe Evans too- WC and a TDF.
That was also SUPER Wiggo
Maybe not a better climber but more consistent.

Horner can be described as a pure climber- but if you had said to me before the Vuelta he would dominate every mountain stage i would not have believed it/ considered him as that good of a climber- i know he has done well at 1 week races but he had not even won a GT stage.

 

[greenedge]

Come on now I think Nibali is better, but seriously "Gifted". Take CF out the race and Wiggins wins, Chris Froome on another team Wiggins wins. Just because Froome was stronger on the climbs does not mean he can put all the time in with those massive ITT's. Wiggins was also the 2nd best climber, people will say he got towed by Chris Froome, but I dint see no one else staying with him. Ok Froome could have put time in but Wiggo was still worthy winner. And when you only take part in mainly 1 GT since 09, 4th place(3rd?) Vuelta Podium and a win in 2012. What is not great about that. I don't even like Wiggins after his antics I always favourd Froome but come on now don't talk silly.

They are all gifted.

If Froome was on another team he would have had support and not lost a minute or so.

On La Toussuire Wiggins was not the 2nd strongest climber- if he continued in the red zone, what could have happened for the rest of the race?

Worthy winner of a boring route. 2010/ 2010 Giro and TDF- he did not crash in those, he just failed- otherwise i could rule out Evans 2009 TDF. Also I am not sure if am responding correctly to your sentence (1 GT per year, or from 2009 TDF to 2012 TDF- he only mainly competed in the 2011 Vuelta.......)

 

[LaFlorecita]

Nibs gonna be a dad too? Sheesh a true baby boom in cycling. Now I just hope the rumors about AC are true. Perhaps we'll get to enjoy Nibali vs Schleck vs Contador in the 2038 Tour.