Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[SeriousSam]

Re:

I found the original version of the interview.
That remark on Froome was really odd and totally uncalled for.

Did he really just bring it up out of the blue or was he asked something about that race?

 

[dacooley]

nibali and froome seem to be at daggers drawn. probably nibs himself doesn't understand how this yester rookie turns out to be a stronger rider today.

 

[SafeBet]

Re: Re:

I found the original version of the interview.
That remark on Froome was really odd and totally uncalled for.

Got a link for the interview?

http://www.pressreader.com/italy/la-gazzetta-dello-sport/20150813/282007556121936/TextView

@SeriousSam: he wasn't asked about the race, only a general question about his relationship with Froome. I struggle to even understand how it relates to the previous sentence.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

At the time, I preferred not to mention it, but in 2010 Froome was excluded from the Giro for being towed by a car…

What does this have to do with his classless behaviour in Le Havre?
Or is it regarding the 2013 data? If so, he should be reminded how long it took him to become the Tour contender.
That arrogant environment is getting to him. He's less and less likeable.

His (Nibali's) was a more natural progression to being a Tour contender, unlike Froome's.

His comment about Froome being towed by a car was a reminder that Froome is not devoid of ethically questionable behavior in his past.

+100

Not to mention hacking his coaches email to get into a race and taking an illegal feed with an official right there telling him it was illegal. With taking a moto tow, three actions of an unethical person IMO.

Nibs had 3 times the class of Froome.......

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

At the time, I preferred not to mention it, but in 2010 Froome was excluded from the Giro for being towed by a car…

What does this have to do with his classless behaviour in Le Havre?
Or is it regarding the 2013 data? If so, he should be reminded how long it took him to become the Tour contender.
That arrogant environment is getting to him. He's less and less likeable.

His (Nibali's) was a more natural progression to being a Tour contender, unlike Froome's.

His comment about Froome being towed by a car was a reminder that Froome is not devoid of ethically questionable behavior in his past.

+100

Not to mention hacking his coaches email to get into a race and taking an illegal feed with an official right there telling him it was illegal. With taking a moto tow, three actions of an unethical person IMO.

Nibs had 3 times the class of Froome.......

That's the proper tense.
Maybe.

 

[Dog]

Re: Re:

At the time, I preferred not to mention it, but in 2010 Froome was excluded from the Giro for being towed by a car…

What does this have to do with his classless behaviour in Le Havre?
Or is it regarding the 2013 data? If so, he should be reminded how long it took him to become the Tour contender.
That arrogant environment is getting to him. He's less and less likeable.

Well how long?! What's your point? His career trajectory went just fine, unlike some others that he mentioned..

Longer than his arrogance suggests.
The remark is classless. As was his behaviour in Le Havre.
He just can't get over the fact he's light years behind the man he was with on the Restefond in 2008 Tour.

Nibali has more class than Froome will ever have. On and off the bike.

Don't know how you can categorically state that given Nibali's behaviour on and off the bike in the Tour.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

I found the original version of the interview.
That remark on Froome was really odd and totally uncalled for.

Got a link for the interview?

http://www.pressreader.com/italy/la-gazzetta-dello-sport/20150813/282007556121936/TextView

@SeriousSam: he wasn't asked about the race, only a general question about his relationship with Froome. I struggle to even understand how it relates to the previous sentence.

It doesn't have to relate to any sentence.
It relates to feeling of inferiority and deep frustration.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

Okay, so you think nibali doesnt have class. And why? Because he doesnt take an interview too serious? Froome's and Nibali's behavior outside of the race is a little bit like their riding style. Froome is easy to predict, and he never does something which could be taken the wrong way. Nibali is a rider who acts more emotional and says what he thinks, although thats maybe not always very clever.
We could argue for hours what is better but saying froome simply has more class than nibali is nonsense.
And saying Nibali is lightyears away of nibali because of PSM is even more nonsense. You cannot compare someone in top shape with someone in the worst shape he could possibly have. We all know that froome was better in this years tour but last year showed how good Nibali can be. I am not sure if froome had won 2014.

 

[SkyTears]

i guess it doesn't matter for big fans, he can do or say anything, some will twist and say it's a matter of class.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

*deleted by mod*

Okay, so you think nibali doesnt have class. And why? Because he doesnt take an interview too serious? Froome's and Nibali's behavior outside of the race is a little bit like their riding style. Froome is easy to predict, and he never does something which could be taken the wrong way. Nibali is a rider who acts more emotional and says what he thinks, although thats maybe not always very clever.
We could argue for hours what is better but saying froome simply has more class than nibali is nonsense.
And saying Nibali is lightyears away of nibali because of PSM is even more nonsense. You cannot compare someone in top shape with someone in the worst shape he could possibly have. We all know that froome was better in this years tour but last year showed how good Nibali can be. I am not sure if froome had won 2014.

Julyer?!
Go through my posts and come back to apologise to me, then I'll deign you the response.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

i guess it doesn't matter for big fans, he can do or say anything, some will twist and say it's a matter of class.

As I wrote, its often not clever to say what you think but "class" is something subjective and everyone defines it differently. I personally think that a rider has to show humor and shouldn't take everything overly serious.

 

[SeriousSam]

Humour is nice. It's hard to pinpoint exactly what the difference is, but in our native language we all know when someone is being light-hearted and humorous or mean spirited and a douchebag.

Based on what a native Italian speaker said, it seems to be the latter in this case. I think everyone would immediately agree with this if it wasn't Nibali saying it about Froome, who is the forum's favourite punching bag.

 

[dacooley]

pretty much this. if people strongly dislike someone on here, it goes to the bitter end regardless of any contexts and situations.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

Humour is nice. It's hard to pinpoint exactly what the difference is, but in our native language we all know when someone is being light-hearted and humorous or mean spirited and a douchebag.

Based on what a native Italian speaker said, it seems to be the latter in this case. I think everyone would immediately agree with this if it wasn't Nibali saying it about Froome, who is the forum's favourite punching bag.

Once again, I don't think it was a clever idea to say that, it was a mistake. I never wanted to negate that, maybe I didnt outline that enough, if thats the case: sorry
However, I prefer people who sometimes say something wrong over people who take never say something that could be taken the wrong way (although that also isnt always the case with froome, f.e. he blamed nibali for attacking when he had a mechanical)
Still I don't think that froome has that much class too.

 

[StannisBaratheon]

Nibali is the only true champion in the peleton, except maybe Contador, Froome will not equal him even if he wins 20 Tours in a row.
Pure class, his grand tour triple crown is not accidental.
Forza Vincenzo!

 

[sir fly]

Re:

Nibali is the only true champion in the peleton, except maybe Contador, Froome will not equal him even if he wins 20 Tours in a row.
Pure class, his grand tour triple crown is not accidental.
Forza Vincenzo!

Yes, he is.
...in peleton

 

[Jspear]

Re:

Nibali is the only true champion in the peleton, except maybe Contador, Froome will not equal him even if he wins 20 Tours in a row.
Pure class, his grand tour triple crown is not accidental.
Forza Vincenzo!

What is the definition of a champion?
Any person who could win 20 Tours would be considered the greatest cyclist in the world period.

 

[StannisBaratheon]

Re: Re:

Nibali is the only true champion in the peleton, except maybe Contador, Froome will not equal him even if he wins 20 Tours in a row.
Pure class, his grand tour triple crown is not accidental.
Forza Vincenzo!

Yes, he is.
...in peleton

A grammar mistake does not change the idea, but thanks anyway.

Nibali is the only true champion in the peleton, except maybe Contador, Froome will not equal him even if he wins 20 Tours in a row.
Pure class, his grand tour triple crown is not accidental.
Forza Vincenzo!

What is the definition of a champion?
Any person who could win 20 Tours would be considered the greatest cyclist in the world period.

The way he wins those 20 Tours is essential - it's all about style and class, at least for me and all the cycling fans in Westeros

The Nibali hate I've seen lately is ridiculous - from the chain incident to his latest interview. I wonder what will people comment about after lo squallo wins La Vuelta . Bring on 22 August

 

[Arredondo]

Re: Re:

Nibali is the only true champion in the peleton, except maybe Contador, Froome will not equal him even if he wins 20 Tours in a row.
Pure class, his grand tour triple crown is not accidental.
Forza Vincenzo!

Yes, he is.
...in peleton

A grammar mistake does not change the idea, but thanks anyway.

Nibali is the only true champion in the peleton, except maybe Contador, Froome will not equal him even if he wins 20 Tours in a row.
Pure class, his grand tour triple crown is not accidental.
Forza Vincenzo!

What is the definition of a champion?
Any person who could win 20 Tours would be considered the greatest cyclist in the world period.

The way he wins those 20 Tours is essential - it's all about style and class, at least for me and all the cycling fans in Westeros

The Nibali hate I've seen lately is ridiculous - from the chain incident to his latest interview. I wonder what will people comment about after lo squallo wins La Vuelta . Bring on 22 August

Nibali from 2013 and earlier was a great champion.

The Nibali of the last two years is just someone who only rides well for three weeks in July. Now his Tour has been a bit of a failure, he tries to salvage his season in the Vuelta. But that doesn't change the fact he's got a wrong attitude the last two years.

It's really a shame, because the old Vincenzo went full *** from Oman till Lombardia.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Nibali is the only true champion in the peleton, except maybe Contador, Froome will not equal him even if he wins 20 Tours in a row.
Pure class, his grand tour triple crown is not accidental.
Forza Vincenzo!

Yes, he is.
...in peleton

A grammar mistake does not change the idea, but thanks anyway.

Nibali is the only true champion in the peleton, except maybe Contador, Froome will not equal him even if he wins 20 Tours in a row.
Pure class, his grand tour triple crown is not accidental.
Forza Vincenzo!

What is the definition of a champion?
Any person who could win 20 Tours would be considered the greatest cyclist in the world period.

The way he wins those 20 Tours is essential - it's all about style and class, at least for me and all the cycling fans in Westeros

The Nibali hate I've seen lately is ridiculous - from the chain incident to his latest interview. I wonder what will people comment about after lo squallo wins La Vuelta . Bring on 22 August

You still haven't given me the definition of a champion. According to you, right now there is only one...maybe two.

 

[Walkman]

Re: Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nibali-and-aru-show-united-front-ahead-of-vuelta-a-espaa/

I found it quite an entertaining interview. It was interesting to see him make thinly veiled digs at Froome and Movistar, clearly there is little love between them.

I was impressed by Nibali's incredible calmness in that interview - he must be feeling very little pressure right now. Lo squalo è tranquillo. If he is in decent shape then he will be awesome to watch, attacking from 60km out again won't be out of the question.

He is also pretty happy about the relationship between him and Aru. I think Aru looks up to him, for sure. Like Nibali looked up to Basso, sort of way, but maybe Aru looks up to Nibali more. He is saying that he would be happy to work for Aru, which is more that can be said for Landa

I'm looking forward to see what he can bring us for the Vuelta.

One can be quite tranquilo in an interview. Nibali is known for being calm under fire so his demeanor leading up to the Vuelta shouldn't be surprising but I'd say he's under pressure to salvage his season. His primary focus was the Tour and he failed to even make the podium. A Tour stage win wasn't what he prepped his season for so he should be expected to be under pressure from Vino to make up for his disappointing Tour performance by delivering at the Vuelta. His all for the Tour approach that many tauted as the reason for his extraordinary form at the 2014 Tour and was defended by many prior to the Tour as him not changing what got him his Tour win has proven to have failed him in 2015. He should be motivated to make up for what has been, with the exception of his Italian road championship and Tour win, a less than stellar follow up to his 2014 Tour win season.

Care to elaborate on the bold part?

If anything, we saw in this years Tour that Nibali does not handle pressure well. He was the reigning Champion by winning what most people see as the weakest field in, I don't know, 20+ years? He came in to defend his title and show the audience that his win was not a result of Froome and Contador crashing out and to me, he seemed to have collapsed mentally already in Zeeland.

For the first time, he was under real pressure and he didn't cope well IMHO. At La Pierre Saint-Martin he didn't look exhausted, he looked like he didn't even want to try to push it since he knew he could not be in contention. Total resignation.

And I don't think it was a form issue as we saw that he was strong in the opening ITT, in the stage to Zeeland (dropping riders when chasing the front group at will before settling down) and later on in the mountains.

So I'd like to hear your arguments for Niabli being calm under fire because it's not the picture I have. And I am not Nibali hater, I just call it as I see it.

 

[StannisBaratheon]

Re: Re:

Nibali from 2013 and earlier was a great champion.

The Nibali of the last two years is just someone who only rides well for three weeks in July. Now his Tour has been a bit of a failure, he tries to salvage his season in the Vuelta. But that doesn't change the fact he's got a wrong attitude the last two years.

It's really a shame, because the old Vincenzo went full *** from Oman till Lombardia.

Last year he needed the Tour to complete his Triple Crown, destroyed the whole peloton [ 2 minutes over Froome and Contador before their premature exit - and with his mountain form I do not think he could have been beaten ] and this year he focused on the Tour to prove last year's success was no accident. He might have failed to defend his title, and this season is a bit of a letdown [ until he will win La Vuelta ] but the third week proved he can compete with the very best.
Next year he'll do Giro, the Olympics and the "Old Vincenzo" will be back in business.
Be tranquillo, my friend.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Nibali is the only true champion in the peleton, except maybe Contador, Froome will not equal him even if he wins 20 Tours in a row.
Pure class, his grand tour triple crown is not accidental.
Forza Vincenzo!

Yes, he is.
...in peleton

A grammar mistake does not change the idea, but thanks anyway.

Nibali is the only true champion in the peleton, except maybe Contador, Froome will not equal him even if he wins 20 Tours in a row.
Pure class, his grand tour triple crown is not accidental.
Forza Vincenzo!

What is the definition of a champion?
Any person who could win 20 Tours would be considered the greatest cyclist in the world period.

The way he wins those 20 Tours is essential - it's all about style and class, at least for me and all the cycling fans in Westeros

The Nibali hate I've seen lately is ridiculous - from the chain incident to his latest interview. I wonder what will people comment about after lo squallo wins La Vuelta . Bring on 22 August

Nibali from 2013 and earlier was a great champion.

The Nibali of the last two years is just someone who only rides well for three weeks in July. Now his Tour has been a bit of a failure, he tries to salvage his season in the Vuelta. But that doesn't change the fact he's got a wrong attitude the last two years.

It's really a shame, because the old Vincenzo went full *** from Oman till Lombardia.

Well, his performance on the cobbled stage of last year's Tour had folks deeply entrenched in his corner, regardless of his 2014 season results prior to the Tour. That performance would have been seen as that of a "great champion".

His 2015 season, IMO, was one that dulled in comparison to 2014 in terms of his motivation to succeed by way of his training, preparation and willingness to sacrifice for his goals. What goals did he have left after 2014 and his Tour victory? He had the Giro, Vuelta and Tour under his belt. I'm certain the demands on his time as Tour champion and the opportunity to cash in on his success had an effect on his 2015 performances but who can blame him? He admitted that winning the Tour again was not of utmost importance to him. What is left is the Ardennes, MSR, the WRC (world road championship), and another Giro. If I recall correctly he has mentioned that he may return to his previous years (prior to 2014) strategy of year long competitiveness as opposed to the singular peak that he's pursued in the past 2 years.

 

[Arredondo]

Re: Re:

Nibali is the only true champion in the peleton, except maybe Contador, Froome will not equal him even if he wins 20 Tours in a row.
Pure class, his grand tour triple crown is not accidental.
Forza Vincenzo!

Yes, he is.
...in peleton

A grammar mistake does not change the idea, but thanks anyway.

Nibali is the only true champion in the peleton, except maybe Contador, Froome will not equal him even if he wins 20 Tours in a row.
Pure class, his grand tour triple crown is not accidental.
Forza Vincenzo!

What is the definition of a champion?
Any person who could win 20 Tours would be considered the greatest cyclist in the world period.

The way he wins those 20 Tours is essential - it's all about style and class, at least for me and all the cycling fans in Westeros

The Nibali hate I've seen lately is ridiculous - from the chain incident to his latest interview. I wonder what will people comment about after lo squallo wins La Vuelta . Bring on 22 August

Nibali from 2013 and earlier was a great champion.

The Nibali of the last two years is just someone who only rides well for three weeks in July. Now his Tour has been a bit of a failure, he tries to salvage his season in the Vuelta. But that doesn't change the fact he's got a wrong attitude the last two years.

It's really a shame, because the old Vincenzo went full *** from Oman till Lombardia.

Well, his performance on the cobbled stage of last year's Tour had folks deeply entrenched in his corner, regardless of his 2014 season results prior to the Tour. That performance would have been seen as that of a "great champion".

His 2015 season, IMO, was one that dulled in comparison to 2014 in terms of his motivation to succeed by way of his training, preparation and willingness to sacrifice for his goals. What goals did he have left after 2014 and his Tour victory? He had the Giro, Vuelta and Tour under his belt. I'm certain the demands on his time as Tour champion and the opportunity to cash in on his success had an effect on his 2015 performances but who can blame him? He admitted that winning the Tour again was not of utmost importance to him. What is left is the Ardennes, MSR, the WRC (world road championship), and another Giro. If I recall correctly he has mentioned that he may return to his previous years (prior to 2014) strategy of year long competitiveness as opposed to the singular peak that he's pursued in the past 2 years.

That Tour was great, but i dislike riders who only target one race. Especially because in the past years, he fought for the win in (almost) every stage race he participated in, and also did well in the classics.

So it would be great if he returns to his old approach. He showed in 2013 it's possible to be already good in Oman, winning TA and be first in the Giro.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nibali-and-aru-show-united-front-ahead-of-vuelta-a-espaa/

I found it quite an entertaining interview. It was interesting to see him make thinly veiled digs at Froome and Movistar, clearly there is little love between them.

I was impressed by Nibali's incredible calmness in that interview - he must be feeling very little pressure right now. Lo squalo è tranquillo. If he is in decent shape then he will be awesome to watch, attacking from 60km out again won't be out of the question.

He is also pretty happy about the relationship between him and Aru. I think Aru looks up to him, for sure. Like Nibali looked up to Basso, sort of way, but maybe Aru looks up to Nibali more. He is saying that he would be happy to work for Aru, which is more that can be said for Landa

I'm looking forward to see what he can bring us for the Vuelta.

One can be quite tranquilo in an interview. Nibali is known for being calm under fire so his demeanor leading up to the Vuelta shouldn't be surprising but I'd say he's under pressure to salvage his season. His primary focus was the Tour and he failed to even make the podium. A Tour stage win wasn't what he prepped his season for so he should be expected to be under pressure from Vino to make up for his disappointing Tour performance by delivering at the Vuelta. His all for the Tour approach that many tauted as the reason for his extraordinary form at the 2014 Tour and was defended by many prior to the Tour as him not changing what got him his Tour win has proven to have failed him in 2015. He should be motivated to make up for what has been, with the exception of his Italian road championship and Tour win, a less than stellar follow up to his 2014 Tour win season.

Care to elaborate on the bold part?

If anything, we saw in this years Tour that Nibali does not handle pressure well. He was the reigning Champion by winning what most people see as the weakest field in, I don't know, 20+ years? He came in to defend his title and show the audience that his win was not a result of Froome and Contador crashing out and to me, he seemed to have collapsed mentally already in Zeeland.

For the first time, he was under real pressure and he didn't cope well IMHO. At La Pierre Saint-Martin he didn't look exhausted, he looked like he didn't even want to try to push it since he knew he could not be in contention. Total resignation.

And I don't think it was a form issue as we saw that he was strong in the opening ITT, in the stage to Zeeland (dropping riders when chasing the front group at will before settling down) and later on in the mountains.

So I'd like to hear your arguments for Niabli being calm under fire because it's not the picture I have. And I am not Nibali hater, I just call it as I see it.

Very well said.
If I've had patience, I'd written something like this.
Fully agree.