Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[staubsauger]

It's Landa versus Fuglsang versus Valverde versus Zakarin versus maybe Uran (based on his Romandie performance) so far.

Nibali ain't no contender for me anymore until he shows up some kind of shape. This is disastrous.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

Doesn't look good. I'm starting to worry for him. He was really bad again today.

Slongo approach to winning GTs. Sometimes it works, sometimes don't. Hopefully this time it will work.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

It's Landa versus Fuglsang versus Valverde versus Zakarin versus maybe Uran (based on his Romandie performance) so far.

Nibali ain't no contender for me anymore until he shows up some kind of shape. This is disastrous.

Uran in 2014 was finishing 3:25 down on Spliak and Froome in Romandie then finished 2nd in the Giro.

Worth mentioning perhaps that Fugslang had a worse Liege than Nibali, so maybe suffered from the cold weather, which doesn't bode well if that is the case for the Giro. Same with Valverde, to be honest.

This was an improved performance to Trentino. He was 51st, yes, but sat up after being dropped. He was in the group of 40 or so. Ofc, this is still very bad, but better than losing the same amount on the Fai della Paganella in a pretty weak field comparing to a monument.

 

[bajbar]

Re:

It's Landa versus Fuglsang versus Valverde versus Zakarin versus maybe Uran (based on his Romandie performance) so far.

Nibali ain't no contender for me anymore until he shows up some kind of shape. This is disastrous.

Put Majka into the mix aswell. Furtunately todays crash wasn't serious and I have a feeling he will be a serious contender (since all the Tinkoff big guns seem to be going very well this year). He will build his form in Romandie (he is usually around top 10) and then go full in for the Giro. He looked good today before the crash too...

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

It's Landa versus Fuglsang versus Valverde versus Zakarin versus maybe Uran (based on his Romandie performance) so far.

Nibali ain't no contender for me anymore until he shows up some kind of shape. This is disastrous.

I think he still is a contender. We shouldnt forget that if he somehow gets into shape again I doubt anyone can beat him and in 2014 he at least also wasnt very good before the tour. He just is not even close to be the favorite anymore.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Now I'm worried. At Trentino it was nothing that much out of the ordinary.
But usually he at least attacks in LBL or shows something.
Now it was just painful. Dropped earlier than Sam Oomen. Go home Nibali, you're drunk.

 

[Forever The Best]

Terrible today

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

It's Landa versus Fuglsang versus Valverde versus Zakarin versus maybe Uran (based on his Romandie performance) so far.

Nibali ain't no contender for me anymore until he shows up some kind of shape. This is disastrous.

Agree. Slongo unnecessarily playing high stakes, I can't seem to think that Nibali simply has regressed this much. Absolutely perfect conditions today and over a week since he got home from training camp. The explanation from Slongo, altho I admit i dont know much, seems totally BS.

 

[rhubroma]

Let's not overreact. Nibali has planned to hit top form during the Giro, not before, and be able to maintain it through the 3rd week when the race will be decided. Then there's the Tour after and the Olympics after that, which means he is risking more before the start of the Giro, with those later objectives in mind (because if he's the strongest Astana card at the Tour, his shall be played), then when the Giro has been his exclusive big goal.

It remains to be seen if his plan will work, but according to the sibylline Slonga this indeed seems to be the plan.

What is much more disagreable, though, is having the defending Tour champ line up at the start of the most prestigious Ardenne classic not to win, but as a training ride. This is why the old timers condemn the way contemporary cycling is being interpreted. Having said that all the biggest GT racers should ride la Doyenne to win it. It is scandalous that this isn't the case.

 

[Taxus4a]

I am quite surprised about Nibali current shape...
In Trentino I though he was thinking more in Liege, but yesterday, in a perfect cold rainy day for him, he wanst very well.

He has time to the Giro, of course, and I think he will be at his best level there, but I hoped more thi weel from him. Maybe he is thinking to be at le Tour, but anyway this year with the olimpics it is a different year for the big riders.

 

[cantpedal]

Re:

Let's not overreact. Nibali has planned to hit top form during the Giro, not before, and be able to maintain it through the 3rd week when the race will be decided. Then there's the Tour after and the Olympics after that, which means he is risking more before the start of the Giro, with those later objectives in mind (because if he's the strongest Astana card at the Tour, his shall be played), then when the Giro has been his exclusive big goal.

It remains to be seen if his plan will work, but according to the sibylline Slonga this indeed seems to be the plan.

What is much more disagreable, though, is having the defending Tour champ line up at the start of the most prestigious Ardenne classic not to win, but as a training ride. This is why the old timers condemn the way contemporary cycling is being interpreted. Having said that all the biggest GT racers should ride la Doyenne to win it. It is scandalous that this isn't the case.

So he shouldn't ride in support of his teammates? At least 2 or 3 with better shot of winning? Nothing wrong with him supporting his teammates as payback for all he gets from them.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Let's not overreact. Nibali has planned to hit top form during the Giro, not before, and be able to maintain it through the 3rd week when the race will be decided. Then there's the Tour after and the Olympics after that, which means he is risking more before the start of the Giro, with those later objectives in mind (because if he's the strongest Astana card at the Tour, his shall be played), then when the Giro has been his exclusive big goal.

It remains to be seen if his plan will work, but according to the sibylline Slonga this indeed seems to be the plan.

What is much more disagreable, though, is having the defending Tour champ line up at the start of the most prestigious Ardenne classic not to win, but as a training ride. This is why the old timers condemn the way contemporary cycling is being interpreted. Having said that all the biggest GT racers should ride la Doyenne to win it. It is scandalous that this isn't the case.

So he shouldn't ride in support of his teammates? At least 2 or 3 with better shot of winning? Nothing wrong with him supporting his teammates as payback for all he gets from them.

No. At least Nibali came to win, to honor the course, in which not every cyclist is able to compete. By contrast Froome was never a factor, was never seen, not even at the team presentation Saturday. He was the only one of the Bigs to forfait. That's not how you honor a Monument. It would have been more dignified of him and his team to have stayed out of the fray and keep training at altitude camp. This, it seems, is all today's stars know how to do. He'll probably go on to show up for the Tour in fine form, had he not even started the Doyenne. So why show up at all to pull out? Were not talking about a third rate race, but Liege-Bastone-freeking-Liege.

It's a pitty that such a Monument, it needs to be repeated, isn't raced by all the GT favorites. Of all the Classics, Liege suits them the best and cycling needs their participation going for the win to honor the race and as a show of gratitude to the fans, the ones to whom the pros ultimately owe their livelyhoods.

Nibali was thinking to be better, but came up short. But where was Contador, where was Quintana?

 

[May0maniac]

Re: Re:

Let's not overreact. Nibali has planned to hit top form during the Giro, not before, and be able to maintain it through the 3rd week when the race will be decided. Then there's the Tour after and the Olympics after that, which means he is risking more before the start of the Giro, with those later objectives in mind (because if he's the strongest Astana card at the Tour, his shall be played), then when the Giro has been his exclusive big goal.

It remains to be seen if his plan will work, but according to the sibylline Slonga this indeed seems to be the plan.

What is much more disagreable, though, is having the defending Tour champ line up at the start of the most prestigious Ardenne classic not to win, but as a training ride. This is why the old timers condemn the way contemporary cycling is being interpreted. Having said that all the biggest GT racers should ride la Doyenne to win it. It is scandalous that this isn't the case.

So he shouldn't ride in support of his teammates? At least 2 or 3 with better shot of winning? Nothing wrong with him supporting his teammates as payback for all he gets from them.

No. At least Nibali came to win, to honor the course, in which not every cyclist is able to compete. By contrast Froome was never a factor, was never seen, not even at the team presentation Saturday. He was the only one of the Bigs to forfait. That's not how you honor a Monument. It would have been more dignified of him and his team to have stayed out of the fray and keep training at altitude camp. This, it seems, is all today's stars know how to do. He'll probably go on to show up for the Tour in fine form, had he not even started the Doyenne. So why show up at all to pull out? Were not talking about a third rate race, but Liege-Bastone-freeking-Liege.

It's a pitty that such a Monument, it needs to be repeated, isn't raced by all the GT favorites. Of all the Classics, Liege suits them the best and cycling needs their participation going for the win to honor the race and as a show of gratitude to the fans, the ones to whom the pros ultimately owe their livelyhoods.

Nibali was thinking to be better, but came up short. But where was Contador, where was Quintana?

To be fair, LBL has become a third rate race durning the last few years.
A hard Lombardia is even better for the GT favourites, but people have different priorities, we shouldn't bash them for not finishing a one day race that's not one of their main goals.
About Nibali, he's probably thinking about the Tour and Rio, but his form should be better.
I still think that he'll hit peak shape durning the Giro.

 

[SeriousSam]

Nibali is thinking about the Tour? I doubt he'd be happy to be a superdomestique for Aru, who is by far Astana's most valuable asset at this point.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Let's not overreact. Nibali has planned to hit top form during the Giro, not before, and be able to maintain it through the 3rd week when the race will be decided. Then there's the Tour after and the Olympics after that, which means he is risking more before the start of the Giro, with those later objectives in mind (because if he's the strongest Astana card at the Tour, his shall be played), then when the Giro has been his exclusive big goal.

It remains to be seen if his plan will work, but according to the sibylline Slonga this indeed seems to be the plan.

What is much more disagreable, though, is having the defending Tour champ line up at the start of the most prestigious Ardenne classic not to win, but as a training ride. This is why the old timers condemn the way contemporary cycling is being interpreted. Having said that all the biggest GT racers should ride la Doyenne to win it. It is scandalous that this isn't the case.

So he shouldn't ride in support of his teammates? At least 2 or 3 with better shot of winning? Nothing wrong with him supporting his teammates as payback for all he gets from them.

No. At least Nibali came to win, to honor the course, in which not every cyclist is able to compete. By contrast Froome was never a factor, was never seen, not even at the team presentation Saturday. He was the only one of the Bigs to forfait. That's not how you honor a Monument. It would have been more dignified of him and his team to have stayed out of the fray and keep training at altitude camp. This, it seems, is all today's stars know how to do. He'll probably go on to show up for the Tour in fine form, had he not even started the Doyenne. So why show up at all to pull out? Were not talking about a third rate race, but Liege-Bastone-freeking-Liege.

It's a pitty that such a Monument, it needs to be repeated, isn't raced by all the GT favorites. Of all the Classics, Liege suits them the best and cycling needs their participation going for the win to honor the race and as a show of gratitude to the fans, the ones to whom the pros ultimately owe their livelyhoods.

Nibali was thinking to be better, but came up short. But where was Contador, where was Quintana?

To be fair, LBL has become a third rate race durning the last few years.
A hard Lombardia is even better for the GT favourites, but people have different priorities, we shouldn't bash them for not finishing a one day race that's not one of their main goals.
About Nibali, he's probably thinking about the Tour and Rio, but his form should be better.
I still think that he'll hit peak shape durning the Giro.

Don't agree personally. I think if a Tour winner races Liege, he should be racing to win period, or stay out of it.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

It is hard to believe that a guy who just git beaten by Huub Duyn, Floris de Tier and Ben effin Swift on a hard hilly course in cold conditions can win the Giro against a guy like Landa just a few weeks later. So either Nibali had the perfect plan or he has gotten it completely wrong.

 

[SeriousSam]

Has Slongo said something along the lines of "Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design" yet as he usually does?

 

[Jspear]

Re:

It is hard to believe that a guy who just git beaten by Huub Duyn, Floris de Tier and Ben effin Swift on a hard hilly course in cold conditions can win the Giro against a guy like Landa just a few weeks later. So either Nibali had the perfect plan or he has gotten it completely wrong.

That's the way cycling works sometimes. Look where Porte was in Liege. He is most likely going to continue on to Romandie and do very well.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

Has Slongo said something along the lines of "Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design" yet as he usually does?

No, but Sheffer has.

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

It is hard to believe that a guy who just git beaten by Huub Duyn, Floris de Tier and Ben effin Swift on a hard hilly course in cold conditions can win the Giro against a guy like Landa just a few weeks later. So either Nibali had the perfect plan or he has gotten it completely wrong.

Paolo Slongo has, of course, planned everything for Nibali to be in top form for the third week of the Giro. I'm convinced the plan was to not peak too soon in the Giro, to have the possibility of returning to his best during the Tour.

Given that the road to Olympic gold necessarily passes through France in July, it seems logical that Nibali will be riding the double. I also don't think Aru is going to be too big of a factor in the Tour, he will loose great amounts of time in the TTs. Thus Astana is right to give Nibali a chance as Tour contender too.

In any case Nibali's biggest problem at the Giro will be his former teammate, Landa.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

It is hard to believe that a guy who just git beaten by Huub Duyn, Floris de Tier and Ben effin Swift on a hard hilly course in cold conditions can win the Giro against a guy like Landa just a few weeks later. So either Nibali had the perfect plan or he has gotten it completely wrong.

Paolo Slongo has, of course, planned everything for Nibali to be in top form for the third week of the Giro. I'm convinced the plan was to not peak too soon in the Giro, to have the possibility of returning to his best during the Tour.

Given that the road to Olympic gold necessarily passes through France in July, it seems logical that Nibali will be riding the double. I also don't think Aru is going to be too big of a factor in the Tour, he will loose great amounts of time in the TTs. Thus Astana is right to give Nibali a chance as Tour contender too.

In any case Nibali's biggest problem at the Giro will be his former teammate, Landa.

Aru is a beast in MTTs, and there is one in the Tour, so shouldn't be so bad. I think Nibali should have a free role, but while working for Aru at the same time. I realise I have phrased this badly. I mean that Nibali should be attacking from far out while trying to retain a decent position to put pressure on the GC teams to work. Maybe a 2010 Giro-sequel break wouldn't be bad. Aru, though, should be #1 leader. Nibs is a better rider but this is Aru's target for the year.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

It is hard to believe that a guy who just git beaten by Huub Duyn, Floris de Tier and Ben effin Swift on a hard hilly course in cold conditions can win the Giro against a guy like Landa just a few weeks later. So either Nibali had the perfect plan or he has gotten it completely wrong.

Paolo Slongo has, of course, planned everything for Nibali to be in top form for the third week of the Giro. I'm convinced the plan was to not peak too soon in the Giro, to have the possibility of returning to his best during the Tour.

Given that the road to Olympic gold necessarily passes through France in July, it seems logical that Nibali will be riding the double. I also don't think Aru is going to be too big of a factor in the Tour, he will loose great amounts of time in the TTs. Thus Astana is right to give Nibali a chance as Tour contender too.

In any case Nibali's biggest problem at the Giro will be his former teammate, Landa.

Aru is a beast in MTTs, and there is one in the Tour, so shouldn't be so bad. I think Nibali should have a free role, but while working for Aru at the same time. I realise I have phrased this badly. I mean that Nibali should be attacking from far out while trying to retain a decent position to put pressure on the GC teams to work. Maybe a 2010 Giro-sequel break wouldn't be bad. Aru, though, should be #1 leader. Nibs is a better rider but this is Aru's target for the year.

Really, I wasn't aware he crushed it in any TT, though a MTT does suit him better.

Nibali has Landa to worry about at the Giro most of all, for I think the Basque rider is the better climber.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

It is hard to believe that a guy who just git beaten by Huub Duyn, Floris de Tier and Ben effin Swift on a hard hilly course in cold conditions can win the Giro against a guy like Landa just a few weeks later. So either Nibali had the perfect plan or he has gotten it completely wrong.

Paolo Slongo has, of course, planned everything for Nibali to be in top form for the third week of the Giro. I'm convinced the plan was to not peak too soon in the Giro, to have the possibility of returning to his best during the Tour.

Given that the road to Olympic gold necessarily passes through France in July, it seems logical that Nibali will be riding the double. I also don't think Aru is going to be too big of a factor in the Tour, he will loose great amounts of time in the TTs. Thus Astana is right to give Nibali a chance as Tour contender too.

In any case Nibali's biggest problem at the Giro will be his former teammate, Landa.

I don't think Landa will be his biggest problem, it's his uncertain form and Valverde. There is 50k of TT suitable for Nibs, only two MTF one of which is not so hard, it looks like he has a better team and he is apt at deploying guerilla warfare. As for Valverde, if the weather is gentle on him, he can match Nibs most of the times while being able to grab some boni seconds.

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

Well, the chicken has come home. LBL? Nibali meh. I don't know whether because he couldn't adapt properly after the high altitude training or this is another sign of his 2014 form? Dunno, maybe come May, he either will show up with some monstrous form, or he is just going to be mediocre. If it's the latter, maybe winning TDF has got into his head that he thought he is invincible or something. Landa has shown that he is a serious threat. I didn't expect him to be that good in Trentino, so Nibali will have his hand full.

maybe we'll see another Aru/Landa dejavu again, with Nibali/Fulgsang/Kangert

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

It is hard to believe that a guy who just git beaten by Huub Duyn, Floris de Tier and Ben effin Swift on a hard hilly course in cold conditions can win the Giro against a guy like Landa just a few weeks later. So either Nibali had the perfect plan or he has gotten it completely wrong.

Paolo Slongo has, of course, planned everything for Nibali to be in top form for the third week of the Giro. I'm convinced the plan was to not peak too soon in the Giro, to have the possibility of returning to his best during the Tour.

Given that the road to Olympic gold necessarily passes through France in July, it seems logical that Nibali will be riding the double. I also don't think Aru is going to be too big of a factor in the Tour, he will loose great amounts of time in the TTs. Thus Astana is right to give Nibali a chance as Tour contender too.

In any case Nibali's biggest problem at the Giro will be his former teammate, Landa.

Aru is a beast in MTTs, and there is one in the Tour, so shouldn't be so bad. I think Nibali should have a free role, but while working for Aru at the same time. I realise I have phrased this badly. I mean that Nibali should be attacking from far out while trying to retain a decent position to put pressure on the GC teams to work. Maybe a 2010 Giro-sequel break wouldn't be bad. Aru, though, should be #1 leader. Nibs is a better rider but this is Aru's target for the year.

Really, I wasn't aware he crushed it in any TT, though a MTT does suit him better.

Nibali has Landa to worry about at the Giro most of all, for I think the Basque rider is the better climber.

Giro 2014, Stage 18 on Monte Grappa. Almost beat Quintana at his own game