Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

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Mar 13, 2015
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samhocking said:
Mr.White said:
samhocking said:
Kwibus said:
Also I read multiple comments on this forum complaining that the descent was too much. I don't understand this at all.

The riders explored the climb then raced it 3 times so they all knew every corner of the descent.
It's not the descent itself as much as the effects it had on shaping the final podium more than even the last climb and run-in to the finish did I don't really like. Without the Nibali & Henao crash, Majka would not have been found racing alone up front and Thomas, Avermaet & Fuglsang would probably have joined him, especially given how he looked cooked in final sprint with Avermaet. At the very least we would have had Nibali, Henao & Majka vs Thomas, Avermaet & Fuglsang all the way to the finish and that would have been a more valid way for any of those riders to win the race. It was still a great race, but the descent had too much influence on the podium in hindsight.
Thomas?
Yes, Thomas crashed on the last corner descending with the Avermaet & Fuglsang group who then bridged to Majka dropping Rodriguez & Aru etc.
Why are you so sure Thomas would join Van Avermaet and Fuglsang? You talk like it's a sure thing, I don't think so...
 
Mar 22, 2011
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Re: Re:

Mr.White said:
samhocking said:
Mr.White said:
samhocking said:
Kwibus said:
Also I read multiple comments on this forum complaining that the descent was too much. I don't understand this at all.

The riders explored the climb then raced it 3 times so they all knew every corner of the descent.
It's not the descent itself as much as the effects it had on shaping the final podium more than even the last climb and run-in to the finish did I don't really like. Without the Nibali & Henao crash, Majka would not have been found racing alone up front and Thomas, Avermaet & Fuglsang would probably have joined him, especially given how he looked cooked in final sprint with Avermaet. At the very least we would have had Nibali, Henao & Majka vs Thomas, Avermaet & Fuglsang all the way to the finish and that would have been a more valid way for any of those riders to win the race. It was still a great race, but the descent had too much influence on the podium in hindsight.
Thomas?
Yes, Thomas crashed on the last corner descending with the Avermaet & Fuglsang group who then bridged to Majka dropping Rodriguez & Aru etc.
Why are you so sure Thomas would join Van Avermaet and Fuglsang? You talk like it's a sure thing, I don't think so...
When G.Thomson crashed, he was in GVA group.
 
Re: Re:

Angliru said:
Kwibus said:
Also I read multiple comments on this forum complaining that the descent was too much. I don't understand this at all.

The riders explored the climb then raced it 3 times so they all knew every corner of the descent.

I'm in total agreement.
But.... This are the olympics and with a dangerous descent as an added deciding factor on who would win riders will take extreme risks to win gold. I love it when riders give it all and take all risks, but maybe we shouldn't want that on a road with a high curb and trees next to the road. Maybe if they add this to a race like this more safety precautions have to be taken. The net possibly safed Portes life as he was caught in it, but maybe something had to be done about the curbs as well.
Surely that will cost a lot, but after seeing v. Vleuten laying motionless head down on a curb I must admit I changed my mind a bit. That's maybe a risk too much, surely the riders know the descent, but the reward is an olympic gold medal aka everlasting fame so riders will go over the edge for that.
 
Jul 28, 2016
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Wasn't the descent a bit wet on Sunday? I only caught a glimpse of the women's race and remember thinking it was.

Also think the road was fine -- no more dangerous than many other courses, but the way they were racing, feeling the pressure of the Olympics to take extra risks, made it dangerous. Nibali was going for gold or nothing, I think. He wouldn't have won in the sprint. He needed more time than he had that close to the finish in the race, rather desperately too, imo. The racing was exciting - Nibali, Henao, Majka were the stars, imo. And the GVA group was too close, Nibali didn't know exactly how many seconds behind or who was in the chase group but that had to be adding to the pressure and forcing him to choose the risks. I'm in agreement with those that doubt one of the three leaders, Nibali, Henao, or Majka would have won if not for the crash. In hindsight, the finish would have been the same: Van Avermaet. All of those three needed extra time. Following Nibali, if that's exactly how it went, was what I'd have tried to do.

It was tempting to agree with the odds for Valverde or Nibali. But I was doubting Valverde and Purito would make it happen -- though I thought the course suited Valverde the most. And I was doubting Nibali could find enough seconds on everyone in time to not need to win from a long flat sprint. Maybe he could have with a different team? I still feel bad for Vincenzo Nibali. And Henao. Kwiatkowski and Majka animated much of the race and got a bronze -- happy for them. Both will get another chance too, hopefully. Maybe not for Nibali.

Perfectly won by GVA. GVA wasn't an odds favorite and he said himself that he hadn't expected it!
 
Re: Re:

Mr.White said:
samhocking said:
Mr.White said:
samhocking said:
Kwibus said:
Also I read multiple comments on this forum complaining that the descent was too much. I don't understand this at all.

The riders explored the climb then raced it 3 times so they all knew every corner of the descent.
It's not the descent itself as much as the effects it had on shaping the final podium more than even the last climb and run-in to the finish did I don't really like. Without the Nibali & Henao crash, Majka would not have been found racing alone up front and Thomas, Avermaet & Fuglsang would probably have joined him, especially given how he looked cooked in final sprint with Avermaet. At the very least we would have had Nibali, Henao & Majka vs Thomas, Avermaet & Fuglsang all the way to the finish and that would have been a more valid way for any of those riders to win the race. It was still a great race, but the descent had too much influence on the podium in hindsight.
Thomas?
Yes, Thomas crashed on the last corner descending with the Avermaet & Fuglsang group who then bridged to Majka dropping Rodriguez & Aru etc.
Why are you so sure Thomas would join Van Avermaet and Fuglsang? You talk like it's a sure thing, I don't think so...
What do you mean 'join'? Thomas was already with Avermaet & Fuglsang, they were all together over the summit of last climb and Rodriguez & Aru etc had bridged back up maybe 0.5km before they started the descent all together.

Anyway Thomas isn't even my point? My point was, without the crashes you would have had a completely different race dynamic develop on the flat because you would have had Nibali, Henao & Majka probably join together or at least Henao & Majka chasing Nibali first and then Thomas, Avermaet, Fuglsang, Rodriguez, Aru etc chasing them down too and then the cat and mouse. In a way Majka's victory was doomed the moment Nibali & Henao crashed as the odds were stacked against him much more with the Avermaet group still alltogether bar Thomas at the bottom of the final descent. This was my point. The crashes changed the race for the worse because we lost the lead group and it also nullified Majka's cautious descent at the same time.

Avermaert group starting the final descent, Thomas in second place just behind him. Click to open big, no idea how to link them full size.
 
Re:

Brullnux said:
GVA and Fugslang attacked on the flat, or did you miss that bit? Are you sure that Thomas would've followed them, because to me he looked pretty spent.
We'll never know. When Alaphilippe gets out the saddle from the back and sprints past everyone to the front of the group to start the descent first wheel, it's only Thomas who immediatly follows and is straight onto his wheel. He looked more than comfortable to me. Anyway, my point was never about Thomas getting a medal, I just called the Avermaet, Thomas & Fugslang group the Thomas group, because I watched the race on BBC and so that's what they called it obviously.
 
Re: Re:

Kwibus said:
Angliru said:
Kwibus said:
Also I read multiple comments on this forum complaining that the descent was too much. I don't understand this at all.

The riders explored the climb then raced it 3 times so they all knew every corner of the descent.

I'm in total agreement.
But.... This are the olympics and with a dangerous descent as an added deciding factor on who would win riders will take extreme risks to win gold. I love it when riders give it all and take all risks, but maybe we shouldn't want that on a road with a high curb and trees next to the road. Maybe if they add this to a race like this more safety precautions have to be taken. The net possibly safed Portes life as he was caught in it, but maybe something had to be done about the curbs as well.
Surely that will cost a lot, but after seeing v. Vleuten laying motionless head down on a curb I must admit I changed my mind a bit. That's maybe a risk too much, surely the riders know the descent, but the reward is an olympic gold medal aka everlasting fame so riders will go over the edge for that.
Cav brought this up in an interview, when you've been climbing and your suffering, you're not always thinking as sharply on a descent. It's just slightly easier to make a minor mistake which can have great consequences. Of course the cyclist could still be at fault...this is just one other aspect.
 
Re: Nibali discussion thread

Le cadute fanno parte del gioco. Non c'entra la fortuna o la sfortuna, l'ho sempre detto. Se scendevo piano, non succedeva niente, non cadevo, ma rientravano da dietro. Mi stavo giocando tutto. Stavo veramente bene, ho provato a vincere. Stavo allungando. Non volevo il secondo o il terzo posto, no, io ero lì per l'oro. E volevo arrivare al traguardo da solo. Non in volata, non era quella la mia idea di corsa. Sono entrato in curva, ho fatto una bella traiettoria. La conoscevo bene la discesa, al giro prima proprio qui ero rientrato in discesa su Fabio (Aru, che in cima aveva fatto la selezione decisiva, ndr). Mi è partita leggermente la ruota anteriore, un po' in derapata, come nella MotoGP (la voce di Vincenzo si infiamma, ndr). L'ho tenuta su la bici, però quando la tiri su, ti allarghi di traiettoria, ti allarghi, e così con la bici in piedi sono finito nella canalina di raccolta dell'acqua a bordo strada. E con il pedale destro ho toccato il muretto e mi sono catapultato in avanti. La canalina di scolo era scivolosa, ma questa curva l'avevamo provata tante volte in allenamento".
Crashing is part of the game. Nothing to do with good or bad luck, I've always said it. If I had descended slowly, nothing would have happened, I wouldn't have crashed, but they would have caught us from behind. I was risking it all. I was feeling really well, I tried to go for the win. I was getting a small gap. I didn't want a second or a third place, no, I was there for gold!. And I wanted to get to the finish line alone. Not in a sprint, that was not my idea of race. I went into the corner, I had a nice line. I knew that descent very well, the lap before in that same spot I had got back to Fabio. My front wheel slipped a bit, like skidding in MotoGP. I managed to keep the bike upright, but that meant a wider line. And wider meant I ended up into gutter. With the right pedal I touched the wall and I flew over. The gutter was slippery, but we had trained many times on that corner.

Side note. Very unlikely that Nibali will race again this season. I don't think he'll ride his bike again before the end of August, apart, maybe, of a few turbo sessions.
 
Re: Nibali discussion thread

huge said:
Le cadute fanno parte del gioco. Non c'entra la fortuna o la sfortuna, l'ho sempre detto. Se scendevo piano, non succedeva niente, non cadevo, ma rientravano da dietro. Mi stavo giocando tutto. Stavo veramente bene, ho provato a vincere. Stavo allungando. Non volevo il secondo o il terzo posto, no, io ero lì per l'oro. E volevo arrivare al traguardo da solo. Non in volata, non era quella la mia idea di corsa. Sono entrato in curva, ho fatto una bella traiettoria. La conoscevo bene la discesa, al giro prima proprio qui ero rientrato in discesa su Fabio (Aru, che in cima aveva fatto la selezione decisiva, ndr). Mi è partita leggermente la ruota anteriore, un po' in derapata, come nella MotoGP (la voce di Vincenzo si infiamma, ndr). L'ho tenuta su la bici, però quando la tiri su, ti allarghi di traiettoria, ti allarghi, e così con la bici in piedi sono finito nella canalina di raccolta dell'acqua a bordo strada. E con il pedale destro ho toccato il muretto e mi sono catapultato in avanti. La canalina di scolo era scivolosa, ma questa curva l'avevamo provata tante volte in allenamento".
Crashing is part of the game. Nothing to do with good or bad luck, I've always said it. If I had descended slowly, nothing would have happened, I wouldn't have crashed, but they would have caught us from behind. I was risking it all. I was feeling really well, I tried to go for the win. I was getting a small gap. I didn't want a second or a third place, no, I was there for gold!. And I wanted to get to the finish line alone. Not in a sprint, that was not my idea of race. I went into the corner, I had a nice line. I knew that descent very well, the lap before in that same spot I had got back to Fabio. My front wheel slipped a bit, like skidding in MotoGP. I managed to keep the bike upright, but that meant a wider line. And wider meant I ended up into gutter. With the right pedal I touched the wall and I flew over. The gutter was slippery, but we had trained many times on that corner.
Thanks. Spoken like the Champion he is. Going for the Gold....it's why he is one of my favs :).
 
Re: Re:

Gigs_98 said:
Carols said:
Nibali back on the rollers after collarbone surgery :). He is hoping to ride again prior to season end.
I'd love to see him in Lombardia. The route to Bergamo doesn't suit him as well as last years but he will surely try if he is back in good shape.
He said that he is unlikely to be in good form for Il Lombardia. Not enough time as he cannot train properly yet.
He didn't rule it out though, so you never know...
 

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