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Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

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Re:

Lexman said:
maybe Nibali might have a chance to go for GC with no Geraint and no Froomie....and Dumoulin who won't be in topshape at the start of the TdF...

G is out too? I thought he just had a bruising crash.

I also find the voodoo jokes totally off putting. The man can win on his own. But it's all in good fun I'm sure.

A far as Vince going for GC well that was a Tough Giro and he is 34. He has to be tired, so I have no expectations.
 
Re: Re:

RedheadDane said:
spalco said:
I'm not a big Nibali fan, and maybe I'm overly sensitive, but I'm starting to kind of dislike these "voodoo" jokes, because it implies Nibali is rejoicing at the misfortune of his opponents which I'm sure he's far too much of a sportsman to do. I'm sure he'd much rather beat Thomas, Froome, etc on the road instead of see them crashing out, or lose trying, but not this.

I'm just wondering where the hell they originate from. Or would that be when the hell?
Vuelta 2010, Igor Anton was en route to win but then he crashed out and Nibali won.
 
Re:

spalco said:
I'm not a big Nibali fan, and maybe I'm overly sensitive, but I'm starting to kind of dislike these "voodoo" jokes, because it implies Nibali is rejoicing at the misfortune of his opponents which I'm sure he's far too much of a sportsman to do. I'm sure he'd much rather beat Thomas, Froome, etc on the road instead of see them crashing out, or lose trying, but not this.

It’s just a forum meme (without an image). Like most memes, they are fun for awhile, until they start to get overused.
 
Re: Re:

Nirvana said:
RedheadDane said:
spalco said:
I'm not a big Nibali fan, and maybe I'm overly sensitive, but I'm starting to kind of dislike these "voodoo" jokes, because it implies Nibali is rejoicing at the misfortune of his opponents which I'm sure he's far too much of a sportsman to do. I'm sure he'd much rather beat Thomas, Froome, etc on the road instead of see them crashing out, or lose trying, but not this.

I'm just wondering where the hell they originate from. Or would that be when the hell?
Vuelta 2010, Igor Anton was en route to win but then he crashed out and Nibali won.
....and Froome and Contador both crashing out of the 2014 Tour as overwhelming favorites. And Kruiswijk crashing when in Pink on the second last mountain stage the 2016 Giro.

It does do Nibali a disservice, he had a commanding lead in the Tour before the others crashed, and he utterly dominated the mountains after. And he’s proven his worth over the years in Grand Tours AND monuments, which is so rare in these days of specialists. But as said, it’s all in a bit of fun.
 
Re: Re:

Leinster said:
Nirvana said:
RedheadDane said:
spalco said:
I'm not a big Nibali fan, and maybe I'm overly sensitive, but I'm starting to kind of dislike these "voodoo" jokes, because it implies Nibali is rejoicing at the misfortune of his opponents which I'm sure he's far too much of a sportsman to do. I'm sure he'd much rather beat Thomas, Froome, etc on the road instead of see them crashing out, or lose trying, but not this.

I'm just wondering where the hell they originate from. Or would that be when the hell?
Vuelta 2010, Igor Anton was en route to win but then he crashed out and Nibali won.
....and Froome and Contador both crashing out of the 2014 Tour as overwhelming favorites. And Kruiswijk crashing when in Pink on the second last mountain stage the 2016 Giro.

It does do Nibali a disservice, he had a commanding lead in the Tour before the others crashed, and he utterly dominated the mountains after. And he’s proven his worth over the years in Grand Tours AND monuments, which is so rare in these days of specialists. But as said, it’s all in a bit of fun.

his so called Vodoo didnt work in 2012 tour, 2013 Vuelta, 2015 Tour, 2017 Giro and Vuelta, 2018 Tour and 2019 Giro
 
Re: Re:

del1962 said:
Leinster said:
Nirvana said:
RedheadDane said:
spalco said:
I'm not a big Nibali fan, and maybe I'm overly sensitive, but I'm starting to kind of dislike these "voodoo" jokes, because it implies Nibali is rejoicing at the misfortune of his opponents which I'm sure he's far too much of a sportsman to do. I'm sure he'd much rather beat Thomas, Froome, etc on the road instead of see them crashing out, or lose trying, but not this.

I'm just wondering where the hell they originate from. Or would that be when the hell?
Vuelta 2010, Igor Anton was en route to win but then he crashed out and Nibali won.
....and Froome and Contador both crashing out of the 2014 Tour as overwhelming favorites. And Kruiswijk crashing when in Pink on the second last mountain stage the 2016 Giro.

It does do Nibali a disservice, he had a commanding lead in the Tour before the others crashed, and he utterly dominated the mountains after. And he’s proven his worth over the years in Grand Tours AND monuments, which is so rare in these days of specialists. But as said, it’s all in a bit of fun.

his so called Vodoo didnt work in 2012 tour, 2013 Vuelta, 2015 Tour, 2017 Giro and Vuelta, 2018 Tour and 2019 Giro

He was outvoodooed. On the other hand he had his fair share of crashes, Olympic gold was there for the taking only 11 km away, last year's Tour accident apart from stopping him to fight for at least a podium ruined his chances in WCRR, Firenze another crash, that's just to name a few. But he is an exceptional bike handler and he finished every Grand Tour he entered except when he was thrown out once and that idiot who took him out last year. It does matter a lot when you want to win something.
 
Re: Re:

Because Nibali's biggest opponents in the biggest races throughout the years have fallen victim to crashes or other kinds of bad luck to a quite extraordinary extent.

And now every time a rider has the hiccups, it's attributed to Nibali.

I don't agree with this. Nibali puts guys on the backfoot not just on climbs but with his risk-taking, skills, racecraft and descending. Steve K crashed after dropping a bit from Nibali and was probably thinking, '*** i better get back on before i lose him on the descent'.
 
Re: Re:

Nirvana said:
RedheadDane said:
spalco said:
I'm not a big Nibali fan, and maybe I'm overly sensitive, but I'm starting to kind of dislike these "voodoo" jokes, because it implies Nibali is rejoicing at the misfortune of his opponents which I'm sure he's far too much of a sportsman to do. I'm sure he'd much rather beat Thomas, Froome, etc on the road instead of see them crashing out, or lose trying, but not this.

I'm just wondering where the hell they originate from. Or would that be when the hell?
Vuelta 2010, Igor Anton was en route to win but then he crashed out and Nibali won.
As far as I can tell, the earliest direct reference to Nibali using voodoo on this board is from the time of the 2013 Giro, when IndianCyclist posited a plan hatched by Nibali in collaboration with Vino and Martinelli:

viewtopic.php?p=1236752#p1236752
 
He should have a good team for the Tour, Teuns, Mohoric, Cortina and Rohan all seem to be in good shape. Those guys, Nibali and Caruso and Colbrelli plus Sieberg are a good team that can support him on the flat stages, the hilly stages, in the mountains and ride a good TTT.
ATM I'd pick Cortina over Haussler in a heartbeat.
 
Re:

Mayomaniac said:
He should have a good team for the Tour, Teuns, Mohoric, Cortina and Rohan all seem to be in good shape. Those guys, Nibali and Caruso and Colbrelli plus Sieberg are a good team that can support him on the flat stages, the hilly stages, in the mountains and ride a good TTT.
ATM I'd pick Cortina over Haussler in a heartbeat.
My preference would have the same four you start with, Nibali and Caruso, and go with Tratnik and one of Pernsteiner, Pibernik, or A. Nibali, though coming off Giro duty may be a bit much for him. There needs to be an additional domestique on the flat stages, thus Tratnik, plus he should be some help in TTT. Sieberg’s history suggests he is not overly likely to finish the Tour, so I am thinking going with younger blood makes sense.
 
Re: Re:

Mayomaniac said:
SafeBet said:
What makes you believe he can be competitive in two GTs in a row? He has never done that.
He has also never tried that, the 2nd gt was usually just preparation to get ready for a big one day race, so who knows.

As I posted a few pages back, there will be no altitude training, all he does is Livigno, no hard work just trying to keep in shape, with Caruso and joined by their families. In 2016 after Giro and before TdF to prepare the Olympics he did a training camp in San Pellegrino and he was complete crap until the end of the Tour. I guess we'll find out more during and after the Italian Championships but given how he and Slongo operate it's hard to think he'll go for GC in France.
 
My thinking is that history suggests he will not be able to contend for the overall in the Tour, but having Caruso there is indicative of them at least allowing for the possibility of trying to get on the podium. He is too good, and having worked so much in the Giro, it makes no sense to have him there just to make up the numbers. I think Caruso is better for the TTT than Pozzovivo, so I think that is another clue that the team selection is being made with a GC effort for Nibali in mind.

All that being said, I also think that they are in a position to be realistic about the riders they have available. The first nine stages include four that should appeal to Mohoric and Teuns, possibly even to Garcia Cortina. Having riders chase those stages should keep Nibali from having his team do any work on the front of the peloton, meaning he can save himself for the two stages that do matter for GC - the TTT and the stage to PdBF. Thus, the team can reassess at the first rest day, and decide what the plan for the rest of the Tour will be.

Keep in mind also that I think there is some planning going on for seeing if Dennis can make the transition to a GT contender. Having a Nibali absorb all the attention in the first week makes it possible for Dennis to ride without as much pressure. Will be very interested to see how Dennis does on the PdBF, as he should not be required for Nibali there with Caruso riding. Whether Dennis drops early on the final climb of that stage or not, if Nibali falters there, they can switch their objective to supporting Dennis for GC pretty easily, I would think. And with the ITT still to come, Dennis has at least one stage left where he should be able to make up some time on other GC riders, with one or two exceptions perhaps.

I just think that the Bahrain Merida team may actually be constituted of some options that perfectly suit having multiple objectives that can allow them to be flexible in how they ride the Tour this year. And that is largely a function of having Teuns, Mohoric, and Dennis there.
 
Re:

SafeBet said:
What makes you believe he can be competitive in two GTs in a row? He has never done that.
We know that usually his form improves at the end of GTs, in 2017 he was stronger a month after the Vuelta than during the Vuelta and IMHO in 2015 he could have been stronger in the Vuelta than in the Tour without the tow considering his dominance in Italian races between September and October so I don't think it's out of the world imagining a Nibali in top shape for the Tour if in this month has trained well and not give up with the idea of going only for KOM and stages and maybe build for the second part of the season like he did in 2016.
 

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