Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[Rollthedice]

Hope everybody's OK and slowly we will all enjoy some kind of normal life. Nibali will do the Giro, hopefully WCRR will go on as planned. He will ride exclusively in Italy starting with Strade on the 1st of August.

Nibali, Porte and Mollema keep original targets for 2020 | Trek Race Shop

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[Carols]

Hope everybody's OK and slowly we will all enjoy some kind of normal life. Nibali will do the Giro, hopefully WCRR will go on as planned. He will ride exclusively in Italy starting with Strade on the 1st of August.

Nibali, Porte and Mollema keep original targets for 2020 | Trek Race Shop

The home of Trek Factory Racing, and all the Trek programs. Whether its road, XC, enduro, downhill, freeride, cyclocross or triathlon, you’ll find a Trek athlete, racing for the win.

racing.trekbikes.com

I need me some Shark sightings to make life fun again. Still on lockdown here......
Forza Vince. I'll love to see what he can do in Strade!

 

[SafeBet]

Hopefully UCI accepts the proposed changes to the italian calendar.
Nibali could ride all the italian classics and semiclassics in August, then TA, the WC and start the Giro in top shape.

 

[Rollthedice]

Hopefully UCI accepts the proposed changes to the italian calendar.
Nibali could ride all the italian classics and semiclassics in August, then TA, the WC and start the Giro in top shape.

And Lombardia after the Giro. UCi official Italian races:

01 Aug 2020	Strade Bianche	ITA	ME	1.UWT
05 Aug 2020	Milano-Torino	ITA	ME	1.Pro
08 Aug 2020	Milano-Sanremo	ITA	ME	1.UWT
18 Aug 2020	Giro dell'Emilia	ITA	ME	1.Pro
20 Aug 2020	Gran Piemonte	ITA	ME	1.Pro
29 Aug 2020	Trofeo Matteotti	ITA	ME	1.1
30 Aug 2020	Memorial Marco Pantani	ITA	ME	1.1
01 Sep-05 Sep 2020	Settimana Internazionale Coppi e Bartali	ITA	ME	2.1
07 Sep-14 Sep 2020	Tirreno-Adriatico	ITA	ME	2.UWT
16 Sep 2020	Giro della Toscana - Memorial Alfredo Martini	ITA	ME	1.1
17 Sep 2020	Coppa Sabatini - Gran Premio città di Peccioli	ITA	ME	1.Pro
20 Sep 2020	Giro dell'Appennino	ITA	ME	1.1
22 Sep 2020	Regione Lombardia	ITA	ME	1.Pro
27 Sep 2020	Giro del Medio Brenta	ITA	ME	1.2
08 Oct-11 Oct 2020	56° Giro della Regione Friuli Venezia Giulia	ITA	ME	2.2
03 Oct-25 Oct 2020	Giro d'Italia	ITA	ME	2.UWT
25 Oct 2020	105^ Popolarissima	ITA	ME	1.2
31 Oct 2020	Championnats Nationaux Route - Italie	ITA		CN
31 Oct 2020	Il Lombardia	ITA	ME	1.UWT

 

[Mayomaniac]

And Lombardia after the Giro. UCi official Italian races:

01 Aug 2020	Strade Bianche	ITA	ME	1.UWT
05 Aug 2020	Milano-Torino	ITA	ME	1.Pro
08 Aug 2020	Milano-Sanremo	ITA	ME	1.UWT
18 Aug 2020	Giro dell'Emilia	ITA	ME	1.Pro
20 Aug 2020	Gran Piemonte	ITA	ME	1.Pro
29 Aug 2020	Trofeo Matteotti	ITA	ME	1.1
30 Aug 2020	Memorial Marco Pantani	ITA	ME	1.1
01 Sep-05 Sep 2020	Settimana Internazionale Coppi e Bartali	ITA	ME	2.1
07 Sep-14 Sep 2020	Tirreno-Adriatico	ITA	ME	2.UWT
16 Sep 2020	Giro della Toscana - Memorial Alfredo Martini	ITA	ME	1.1
17 Sep 2020	Coppa Sabatini - Gran Premio città di Peccioli	ITA	ME	1.Pro
20 Sep 2020	Giro dell'Appennino	ITA	ME	1.1
22 Sep 2020	Regione Lombardia	ITA	ME	1.Pro
27 Sep 2020	Giro del Medio Brenta	ITA	ME	1.2
08 Oct-11 Oct 2020	56° Giro della Regione Friuli Venezia Giulia	ITA	ME	2.2
03 Oct-25 Oct 2020	Giro d'Italia	ITA	ME	2.UWT
25 Oct 2020	105^ Popolarissima	ITA	ME	1.2
31 Oct 2020	Championnats Nationaux Route - Italie	ITA		CN
31 Oct 2020	Il Lombardia	ITA	ME	1.UWT

Not all of those haave been confimed, a few will only be confirmed on the 9th on June:

LE DATE ITALIANE DA CONFERMARE
01 Aug 2020 Strade Bianche ME 1.UWT
08 Aug 2020 Milano-Sanremo ME 1.UWT
07 Sep-14 Sep 2020 Tirreno-Adriatico ME 2.UWT
03 Oct-25 Oct 2020 Giro d'Italia ME 2.UWT
31 Oct 2020 Championnats Nationaux Route - Italie CN
31 Oct 2020 Il Lombardia ME 1.UWT

Source: https://www.tuttobiciweb.it/article...6/calendario-uci-calendario-italiano-9-giugno

 

[SafeBet]

Davide Cassani interviewed Nibali on the Koo Instagram page last night.
You can find the whole thing here (in italian): https://www.instagram.com/tv/CAaxku5Fpuu/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link


A few interesting bits:

- he recalls his first ever pro win, a Coppi & Bartali stage finishing in Faenza (where Cassani lives). Says he dropped Bettini + Kuschynski on the last climb and then stayed away in the wet descent. Bettini approached him after the finish and asked him if he had cut a few corners since he was so fast

- still has no explanation for his crash during the 2013 WC ("there must have been soap on the road")

- he goes back to his 2016 Giro win and says he wouldn't have stopped Michele Scarponi after Kruijswijk crashed because he didn't believe he had a chance to win. Martinelli/Slongo made the call and they were right.

- the WC originally wasn't a clear goal for 2020, but it is now with the new calendar

- an almost exclusively italian race schedule will allow him to move from race to race by private cars and avoid planes (hinting at lower risk of getting sick this way)

- he's not a very talkative leader and doesn't like to talk much on the radio. He tries to be a helpful teammate when the youngsters need advices though

- he enjoys training with Bettiol because the EF rider will always cheer you up. He actually says Bettiol talks a bit too much even when apparently suffering in training (hinting at the fact he's got a monster engine but probably not the hardest worker)

- he was getting in great shape before the Covid-19 outbreak and couldn't find motivation to train at home (not a big fan of indoor cycling) when the lockdown occured. But then he found his smile again and enjoyed spending time with his family (he had never been with his family for so long)

- training is still fun to him, and that's one of his secrets. He's not planning to retire anytime soon.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Lol Instagram
and mirror image videos!
Great video - the shark looks lean and hungry.

 

[Red Rick]

So this got reuploaded

Couldn't find the actual damn gif I wanted to use

 

[Rollthedice]

What is missing is the attack from the group to join Neilands. He sneaked so perfectly behind Krists that from the camera point of view you couldn't see him.
Extraordinary 10 minutes of racing.

Only one win is really important now, the worlds road race.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Slongo talking up Nibali's form (in italiano):

Ciclismo, parla Slongo: “Nibali in forma come dopo la Parigi-Nizza”

Giornata di test per Vincenzo al Centro Mapei. L’allenatore: “In questo periodo ha mantenuto la forma. Ora dobbiamo iniziare ad aumentare i lavori di soglia”. E per il Giro c’è il dubbio sul peso: “Vista la stagione forse meglio avere un chilo in più”

www.gazzetta.it

 

[Mayomaniac]

Slongo talking up Nibali's form (in italiano):

Ciclismo, parla Slongo: “Nibali in forma come dopo la Parigi-Nizza”

Giornata di test per Vincenzo al Centro Mapei. L’allenatore: “In questo periodo ha mantenuto la forma. Ora dobbiamo iniziare ad aumentare i lavori di soglia”. E per il Giro c’è il dubbio sul peso: “Vista la stagione forse meglio avere un chilo in più”

www.gazzetta.it

He also talks about riders showing up in great shape but too lean at th start of a GT and of course he has to mention Basso in the 2013 Vuelta when he couldn't handle the rain and the cold on the Andorra stage. I still think that Basso could have finished top 5 in that Vuelta.

 

[Gigs_98]

Something something, and therefore Horner surely wouldn't have won with Basso around, something something.

 

[ice&fire]

Basso was almost 3 min behind Nibali and more than 2 min behind Horner at the time he abandoned the race. He would have been irrelevant in the race for the victory but could have been up there with Purito racing for 4th and ahead of Nico Roche, who finished 5th almost 4 min behind Purito. Horner was laughingly unstoppable.

 

[Rollthedice]

Adrenaline.

https://t.co/hNFqMXkT3x

 

[SHAD0W93]

Basso was almost 3 min behind Nibali and more than 2 min behind Horner at the time he abandoned the race. He would have been irrelevant in the race for the victory but could have been up there with Purito racing for 4th and ahead of Nico Roche, who finished 5th almost 4 min behind Purito. Horner was laughingly unstoppable.

RoboBasso had them right where he wanted them.

 

[skippo12]

Adrenaline.

https://t.co/hNFqMXkT3x

Cannot imagine that any other GC rider of his caliber would do something as risky. But than again no other GC rider is on Nibalis level when it comes to bike handling.

 

[Red Rick]

Adrenaline.

https://t.co/hNFqMXkT3x

Got this call from Vegni about this V. Nibali who sent in his resume to work in the route design department.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

Cannot imagine that any other GC rider of his caliber would do something as risky. But than again no other GC rider is on Nibali's level when it comes to bike handling.

I watched that on Instagram almost in awe, he wasn't hanging around. He obviously loves just riding a bike, and having fun when it's possible. And has some skills, which not all road racers have.....

 

[Gigs_98]

Got this call from Vegni about this V. Nibali who sent in his resume to work in the route design department.

"Hey Mauro I just came back from that scouting ride you sent me on and we should totally use that climb in the giro"
"Great, we already have the permission to asphalt that track"
"Hold on, what do you mean with asphalt?"

 

[Red Rick]

"Hey Mauro I just came back from that scouting ride you sent me on and we should totally use that climb in the giro"
"Great, we already have the permission to asphalt that track"
"Hold on, what do you mean with asphalt?"

"Wait, you wanted to climb that road?"

 

[Summoned]

Because I just can’t get enough of comparisons, below are numbers on GT wins, podiums and top 10’s for a selection of riders.

Nibali 4 wins, 11 podiums, 14 top 10’s
Valverde 1 win, 9 podiums, 19 top 10’s
Froome 7 wins, 11 podiums, 12 top 10’s
Contador 7 (9) wins, 7 (9) podiums, 12 (15) top 10’s
Sastre 1 win, 6 podiums, 15 top 10’s
Hinault 10 wins, 12 podiums, 12 top 10’s
Merckx 11 wins, 12 podiums, 15 top 10’s

No definite conclusions I want to draw from this, though I would say that the more dominant the rider, the nearer to 1 would be the ratio of wins to podium placings. But this list mostly was inspired by Valverde’s record for top 10 finishes in GT’s, so I do want to talk about that. Discounting Contador’s erased results, the next two riders on this list for top 10’s after Valverde are Merckx and Sastre, which is an interesting pairing. They clearly arrived at these numbers by much different careers. Both were obviously excellent GT riders, but one far exceeds the other. But they do provide a sort of framework in which to place the riders on this list.

Hinault and Merckx would seem to be much of a muchness in their numbers here, but Contador would be the next closest to them on this list. Froome is the next on the list, though his ratio for podiums versus top 10’s is better than Merckx’s. But Nibali is clearly more toward the Sastre/Valverde end of the spectrum presented here. Which sounds pretty dismissive, but this is more a case of praising with faint damns here, ‘cause this is quite a list.

The other thing I wanted to do was monument podiums versus top 10’s. I did not count World Championships, though. This was inspired by Valverde’s GT top 10’s record, but I thought I would take a quick look at these numbers also.

Nibali 3 wins, 6 podiums, 12 top 10’s
Valverde 4 wins, 10 podiums, 14 top 10’s
Hinault 5 wins, 7 podiums, 10 top 10’s
Merckx 19 wins, 30 podiums, 45 top 10’s

Clearly what stands out here is Merckx. I knew about his record in GT’s but had no idea just how dominant he had been in monuments. I count 19 wins. Cancellara I have at 7, Boonen at 7, and Gilbert at 5. I am sure there have been other dominant classics/monuments riders, but this has to stand out, especially in combination with his GT palmaries.

Valverde and Nibali are reasonably close to Hinault on this list, though they pale in comparison as GT riders. But as all-round riders, they are in a third tier behind Hinault and then in his own sphere Merckx. I would place Valverde ahead of Nibali, but not by much. Which is the point of this exercise, at long last - a comparison of Nibali and Valverde that incorporates a broader perspective on their accomplishments.

 

[Koronin]

Because I just can’t get enough of comparisons, below are numbers on GT wins, podiums and top 10’s for a selection of riders.

Nibali 4 wins, 11 podiums, 14 top 10’s
Valverde 1 win, 9 podiums, 19 top 10’s
Froome 7 wins, 11 podiums, 12 top 10’s
Contador 7 (9) wins, 7 (9) podiums, 12 (15) top 10’s
Sastre 1 win, 6 podiums, 15 top 10’s
Hinault 10 wins, 12 podiums, 12 top 10’s
Merckx 11 wins, 12 podiums, 15 top 10’s

No definite conclusions I want to draw from this, though I would say that the more dominant the rider, the nearer to 1 would be the ratio of wins to podium placings. But this list mostly was inspired by Valverde’s record for top 10 finishes in GT’s, so I do want to talk about that. Discounting Contador’s erased results, the next two riders on this list for top 10’s after Valverde are Merckx and Sastre, which is an interesting pairing. They clearly arrived at these numbers by much different careers. Both were obviously excellent GT riders, but one far exceeds the other. But they do provide a sort of framework in which to place the riders on this list.

Hinault and Merckx would seem to be much of a muchness in their numbers here, but Contador would be the next closest to them on this list. Froome is the next on the list, though his ratio for podiums versus top 10’s is better than Merckx’s. But Nibali is clearly more toward the Sastre/Valverde end of the spectrum presented here. Which sounds pretty dismissive, but this is more a case of praising with faint damns here, ‘cause this is quite a list.

The other thing I wanted to do was monument podiums versus top 10’s. I did not count World Championships, though. This was inspired by Valverde’s GT top 10’s record, but I thought I would take a quick look at these numbers also.

Nibali 3 wins, 6 podiums, 12 top 10’s
Valverde 4 wins, 10 podiums, 14 top 10’s
Hinault 5 wins, 7 podiums, 10 top 10’s
Merckx 19 wins, 30 podiums, 45 top 10’s

Clearly what stands out here is Merckx. I knew about his record in GT’s but had no idea just how dominant he had been in monuments. I count 19 wins. Cancellara I have at 7, Boonen at 7, and Gilbert at 5. I am sure there have been other dominant classics/monuments riders, but this has to stand out, especially in combination with his GT palmaries.

Valverde and Nibali are reasonably close to Hinault on this list, though they pale in comparison as GT riders. But as all-round riders, they are in a third tier behind Hinault and then in his own sphere Merckx. I would place Valverde ahead of Nibali, but not by much. Which is the point of this exercise, at long last - a comparison of Nibali and Valverde that incorporates a broader perspective on their accomplishments.

Those are some interesting comparisons. Thanks for putting it together. As you included Contador's stripped GTs in parentheses, there was 1 LBL podium Valverde had stripped with his 2010 results. Although I don't think that 1 podium makes as big of an interesting difference as the GT's Contador lost.

 

[tobydawq]

Plus, if you had also counted WCRRs (as you should, but I know it's much more laborious if you use PCS), you can add 7 podiums and 10 top 10s for Valverde, and his quantity suffocates every contemporary rider by a huge margin.

But Merckx' stats are of course ridiculous and would also be boosted a lot by inclusion of WCRR.

 

[Carols]

Because I just can’t get enough of comparisons, below are numbers on GT wins, podiums and top 10’s for a selection of riders.

Nibali 4 wins, 11 podiums, 14 top 10’s
Valverde 1 win, 9 podiums, 19 top 10’s
Froome 7 wins, 11 podiums, 12 top 10’s
Contador 7 (9) wins, 7 (9) podiums, 12 (15) top 10’s
Sastre 1 win, 6 podiums, 15 top 10’s
Hinault 10 wins, 12 podiums, 12 top 10’s
Merckx 11 wins, 12 podiums, 15 top 10’s

No definite conclusions I want to draw from this, though I would say that the more dominant the rider, the nearer to 1 would be the ratio of wins to podium placings. But this list mostly was inspired by Valverde’s record for top 10 finishes in GT’s, so I do want to talk about that. Discounting Contador’s erased results, the next two riders on this list for top 10’s after Valverde are Merckx and Sastre, which is an interesting pairing. They clearly arrived at these numbers by much different careers. Both were obviously excellent GT riders, but one far exceeds the other. But they do provide a sort of framework in which to place the riders on this list.

Hinault and Merckx would seem to be much of a muchness in their numbers here, but Contador would be the next closest to them on this list. Froome is the next on the list, though his ratio for podiums versus top 10’s is better than Merckx’s. But Nibali is clearly more toward the Sastre/Valverde end of the spectrum presented here. Which sounds pretty dismissive, but this is more a case of praising with faint damns here, ‘cause this is quite a list.

The other thing I wanted to do was monument podiums versus top 10’s. I did not count World Championships, though. This was inspired by Valverde’s GT top 10’s record, but I thought I would take a quick look at these numbers also.

Nibali 3 wins, 6 podiums, 12 top 10’s
Valverde 4 wins, 10 podiums, 14 top 10’s
Hinault 5 wins, 7 podiums, 10 top 10’s
Merckx 19 wins, 30 podiums, 45 top 10’s

Clearly what stands out here is Merckx. I knew about his record in GT’s but had no idea just how dominant he had been in monuments. I count 19 wins. Cancellara I have at 7, Boonen at 7, and Gilbert at 5. I am sure there have been other dominant classics/monuments riders, but this has to stand out, especially in combination with his GT palmaries.

Valverde and Nibali are reasonably close to Hinault on this list, though they pale in comparison as GT riders. But as all-round riders, they are in a third tier behind Hinault and then in his own sphere Merckx. I would place Valverde ahead of Nibali, but not by much. Which is the point of this exercise, at long last - a comparison of Nibali and Valverde that incorporates a broader perspective on their accomplishments.

Based on 4 GT wins (including all 3) plus 3 monument wins for Nibali vs 1 GT win and 4 monument wins for Valverde I'd place Nibali above Bala. Of course Bala has a WC and that counts. Still Nibali's 4 GTS+ 3 monuments far outweigh anything Bala has accomplished IMO.
Podiums have much less value than wins.

Merckx rules, but then we all knew that!

 

[SafeBet]

Because I just can’t get enough of comparisons, below are numbers on GT wins, podiums and top 10’s for a selection of riders.

Nibali 4 wins, 11 podiums, 14 top 10’s
Valverde 1 win, 9 podiums, 19 top 10’s
Froome 7 wins, 11 podiums, 12 top 10’s
Contador 7 (9) wins, 7 (9) podiums, 12 (15) top 10’s
Sastre 1 win, 6 podiums, 15 top 10’s
Hinault 10 wins, 12 podiums, 12 top 10’s
Merckx 11 wins, 12 podiums, 15 top 10’s

No definite conclusions I want to draw from this, though I would say that the more dominant the rider, the nearer to 1 would be the ratio of wins to podium placings. But this list mostly was inspired by Valverde’s record for top 10 finishes in GT’s, so I do want to talk about that. Discounting Contador’s erased results, the next two riders on this list for top 10’s after Valverde are Merckx and Sastre, which is an interesting pairing. They clearly arrived at these numbers by much different careers. Both were obviously excellent GT riders, but one far exceeds the other. But they do provide a sort of framework in which to place the riders on this list.

Hinault and Merckx would seem to be much of a muchness in their numbers here, but Contador would be the next closest to them on this list. Froome is the next on the list, though his ratio for podiums versus top 10’s is better than Merckx’s. But Nibali is clearly more toward the Sastre/Valverde end of the spectrum presented here. Which sounds pretty dismissive, but this is more a case of praising with faint damns here, ‘cause this is quite a list.

The other thing I wanted to do was monument podiums versus top 10’s. I did not count World Championships, though. This was inspired by Valverde’s GT top 10’s record, but I thought I would take a quick look at these numbers also.

Nibali 3 wins, 6 podiums, 12 top 10’s
Valverde 4 wins, 10 podiums, 14 top 10’s
Hinault 5 wins, 7 podiums, 10 top 10’s
Merckx 19 wins, 30 podiums, 45 top 10’s

Clearly what stands out here is Merckx. I knew about his record in GT’s but had no idea just how dominant he had been in monuments. I count 19 wins. Cancellara I have at 7, Boonen at 7, and Gilbert at 5. I am sure there have been other dominant classics/monuments riders, but this has to stand out, especially in combination with his GT palmaries.

Valverde and Nibali are reasonably close to Hinault on this list, though they pale in comparison as GT riders. But as all-round riders, they are in a third tier behind Hinault and then in his own sphere Merckx. I would place Valverde ahead of Nibali, but not by much. Which is the point of this exercise, at long last - a comparison of Nibali and Valverde that incorporates a broader perspective on their accomplishments.

Good work here.
I think an excellent comparison for Nibali is Gimondi.

GTs
Nibali 4 wins, 11 podiums, 14 top 10’s
Gimondi 5 wins, 12 podiums, 18 top 10's

Monuments
Nibali 3 wins, 6 podiums, 12 top 10’s
Gimondi 4 wins, 10 podiums, 19 top 10's

Gimondi also won a WC and podiumed a couple more, which places him in a tier above Nibali (and Valverde). If Nibali won a WC/Olympics before retiring I would probably put him in the same tier as Gimondi.
At the moment I agree Nibali and Valverde belong to the same tier. Wether you take one career over the other is a matter of personal preference and I wouldn't argue against either opinion.