Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[Rollthedice]

Giro is good, I would like to see him challenging a few races in the spring. The problem is indeed the fact that next year all the other big guns will target Le Tour and winning Giro against the likes of Uran in one leg while breathing through the nose is not much fun. Whatever he's targeting next year he better deliver some shark action between GTs.

 

[Nirvana]

Next season for him the best is Giro/Vuelta, two Grand Tours with specific praparations with high possibility to win at least one and he could also try to win something in spring before the Giro like he did in 2013 (Tirreno and Trentino), make a good appearance in the Ardennes and, after a break in June/July, go at the Olympics near the best form and also be in a good shape at World Championship (and Lombardia) after the Vuelta.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Re: Re:

I'd rather see him have another crack at the Tour I think. The Giro doesn't look like being competitive enough to prove anything new even if he wins easily. Regarding the Olympics I would have thought it would be a big advantage to do the Tour (although not necessarily on 100% form) in the same way that it is usually a big advantage to go to the Worlds having done the Vuelta

If he came to the Tour though without 100% form he wouldn't win the Tour and that would be another wasted season. Just look at this year. He needs to be in tip top shape to compete with Froome.

Those who do the Vuelta before the Worlds sometimes quit the Vuelta after 2 weeks. Also (besides Valverde) those who do finish the Vuelta and then do the Worlds aren't going for GC in the Vuelta, so I don't think this is the best comparison.

Evans 2009. Anyhow if the Olympics was in two weeks time I think Nibali would be one of the favourites. Had he won the Tour maybe less so but why would he care - at that point anything else would be a bonus. I think his chance would be better than if he had won the Giro with likely no meaningful form in between.

 

[SafeBet]

Most of you underrate the importance of an Olympic gold medal. I suspect it's a huge goal for Nibbles, although a very hard one to achieve, considering how hard it is for him to win a one day race.

I still think the sensible choice is targetting the Giro. Aru can have a crack at the Tour and gain experience for the future. This way Nibali would go back to the 2013 season approach, when he was competitive throughout the year. He himself wants to go back to a different approach and considers 2015 a mistake.

 

[DBotero]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

Nothing wrong for Nibali to target the Giro.He already won the 3 GT's,also has an impressive GT record beside those wins.He can switch between his goals no need to target only TDF.Giro-Vuelta double will be cool though.

 

[staubsauger]

Well, if he intends to do the Giro he needs to tackle the Vuelta in decent shape. Because if Aru wins the Vuelta, Nibali has to ride the Tour.

I doubt it's up to him wheter he'll ride the Giro. I don't think he will do so and I don't think he is the team leader anymore in 2016.

 

[TI-Raleigh]

If Nibali decides to skip the Tour, the most important race of the year, and the race where the other big names will be, he better make sure he wins both the Giro and the Vuelta. Like SeriousSam said, it almost looks like he doesn't believe he can win when the other top guns are in the race.

 

[slim charles]

He believed every year, why do you think he's suddenly scared? Fear is not the reason he's going for the Giro, that is ridiculous thing to suggest.

 

[Walkman]

Re:

He believed every year, why do you think he's suddenly scared? Fear is not the reason he's going for the Giro, that is ridiculous thing to suggest.

Not really. You could call it fear or being smart and maximizing his career.

I always felt that this is something Nibali has done his entire career.

2009 - did the Tour and was beaten, which is natural since he was young.
2010 - did the Giro and manage to win the Vuelta with some luck (Anton crashing out).
2011 - did the Giro/Vuelta again. Finished second behind Scarponi in the Giro was 7:th at the Vuelta.
2012 - had a crack at the Tour but was easily beaten by Froome and Wiggins
2013 - went back to the Giro and won
2014 - had another try and the Tour and won it convincingly after major luck with both Froome and Contador crashing out.
2015 - Came back as defending champion and didn't do well (as a defending champion, a stage + 4:th place is not good)

So to me, it seems to be a clear pattern of him continuously improving and targeting races that would maximize his results given his current level. Testing the Tour in 2009 and 2012 and both times he found himself unable to compete with the best so he went back the the Giro/Vuelta and them came back to the Tour again after additional improvement as we saw last year. Some would call it fear, I call it being smart.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Re: Re:

He believed every year, why do you think he's suddenly scared? Fear is not the reason he's going for the Giro, that is ridiculous thing to suggest.

Not really. You could call it fear or being smart and maximizing his career.

I always felt that this is something Nibali has done his entire career.

2009 - did the Tour and was beaten, which is natural since he was young.
2010 - did the Giro and manage to win the Vuelta with some luck (Anton crashing out).
2011 - did the Giro/Vuelta again. Finished second behind Scarponi in the Giro was 7:th at the Vuelta.
2012 - had a crack at the Tour but was easily beaten by Froome and Wiggins
2013 - went back to the Giro and won
2014 - had another try and the Tour and won it convincingly after major luck with both Froome and Contador crashing out.
2015 - Came back as defending champion and didn't do well (as a defending champion, a stage + 4:th place is not good)

So to me, it seems to be a clear pattern of him continuously improving and targeting races that would maximize his results given his current level. Testing the Tour in 2009 and 2012 and both times he found himself unable to compete with the best so he went back the the Giro/Vuelta and them came back to the Tour again after additional improvement as we saw last year. Some would call it fear, I call it being smart.

How?
2011 was his first year as a proper captain, he was either too young, or working for someone else earlier.
Giro 2011 - meeting AC and a Scarponi still at the tp of his game
2012 - went to the biggest race in the world, and tried to fight the Sky train
2013 - His home tour, first year as captain for a Astana team that hadn't won a gt since AC left, natural that he went for the giro.
2014 - Went to the tour even though he knew everyone except for Quintana would be there
2015 - Did the same this year, excpet as defending champion.

If he was trying to maximize his career he should have stayed on the Giro/ Vuelta + LBL thing he did in 13 for the rest of his career, while maintaining the "he could beat everyone if he just bothered going to the tour" attitude amongst his fans

 

[Netserk]

Re:

I think that targeting the Giro is the sensible choice for a variety of reasons:

1) even in top shape he could miss the podium against the other big3 in the TDF, and that's a wasted season as this year shows;
2) peaking for the Giro means being much more competitive in spring;
3) would make perfect sense if he really wants to target the Olympics.

2) I disagree. How was he any more competitive in '13 than he was in '12 during the spring?

3) I disagree. I think it's better to come from the Tour than the Giro for the Olympics. It's only really if he wins the Tour that I think it would be better to do the Giro, but in that case he has a Tour win.

I do however think that he would be much less competitive in the autumn if he did the Tour, but the WCRR route doesn't suit him at all, so it's no biggie. I think the best would be if he did the Tour with a similar spring focus to 2012.

 

[Eshnar]

Re: Re:

3) I disagree. I think it's better to come from the Tour than the Giro for the Olympics. It's only really if he wins the Tour that I think it would be better to do the Giro, but in that case he has a Tour win.

It is better to come from the Tour if you use it as a preparation race. If you go ftw, I don't think being at 100% at the Olympics would be possible. Same principle as Vuelta/Worlds

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

3) I disagree. I think it's better to come from the Tour than the Giro for the Olympics. It's only really if he wins the Tour that I think it would be better to do the Giro, but in that case he has a Tour win.

It is better to come from the Tour if you use it as a preparation race. If you go ftw, I don't think being at 100% at the Olympics would be possible. Same principle as Vuelta/Worlds

Nibali went ftw in the Vuelta '13 and he was the strongest rider in Firenze.

 

[Eshnar]

Re: Re:

3) I disagree. I think it's better to come from the Tour than the Giro for the Olympics. It's only really if he wins the Tour that I think it would be better to do the Giro, but in that case he has a Tour win.

It is better to come from the Tour if you use it as a preparation race. If you go ftw, I don't think being at 100% at the Olympics would be possible. Same principle as Vuelta/Worlds

Nibali went ftw in the Vuelta '13 and he was the strongest rider in Firenze.

He went ftw but not in top shape. Doing the same at the tdf can't be called "going ftw"

 

[Billie]

Olympics will be a week further away from the end of the Tour than in previous olympic years so I feel like Giro is better option than Tour to prepare Rio.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

3) I disagree. I think it's better to come from the Tour than the Giro for the Olympics. It's only really if he wins the Tour that I think it would be better to do the Giro, but in that case he has a Tour win.

It is better to come from the Tour if you use it as a preparation race. If you go ftw, I don't think being at 100% at the Olympics would be possible. Same principle as Vuelta/Worlds

Nibali went ftw in the Vuelta '13 and he was the strongest rider in Firenze.

He went ftw but not in top shape. Doing the same at the tdf can't be called "going ftw"

I still think he'd be among the favourites even if he did his best in the Tour (in best possible shape), but I still don't think the Giro would be a better alternative. I'd rather he then went in the Tour subpar with the aim to hit mega peak for the Olympics and then aimed for the Vuelta win afterwards.

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

3) I disagree. I think it's better to come from the Tour than the Giro for the Olympics. It's only really if he wins the Tour that I think it would be better to do the Giro, but in that case he has a Tour win.

It is better to come from the Tour if you use it as a preparation race. If you go ftw, I don't think being at 100% at the Olympics would be possible. Same principle as Vuelta/Worlds

Nibali went ftw in the Vuelta '13 and he was the strongest rider in Firenze.

He went ftw but not in top shape. Doing the same at the tdf can't be called "going ftw"

I still think he'd be among the favourites even if he did his best in the Tour (in best possible shape), but I still don't think the Giro would be a better alternative. I'd rather he then went in the Tour subpar with the aim to hit mega peak for the Olympics and then aimed for the Vuelta win afterwards.

The Tour should not be used as a prep/training race. Especially not by an ex-winner.

 

[Netserk]

Why not?

 

[Billie]

Imagine him getting dropped every time looking down at his power meter like he did in Dauphine. Would get a lot of criticism for not respecting le Tours history.

 

[Carols]

Bye, Bye Vino!!!! I hope it is true. He has delivered 2 GT wins for Vino and been treated like crap.....

"Nibali, according to an article in La Gazzetta dello Sport, will not return to the Tour de France in 2016 and will leave team Astana as soon as possible."

Nibali will leave the turquoise team at the end of 2016, according to La Gazzetta dello Sport. BMC and Trek Factory Racing have been named as squads who might sign him, but the newspaper reported that the 30-year-old Sicilian is considering a team of his own.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/07/news/report-change-on-the-horizon-for-nibali_379941#wCF5p4o370b2cAyS.99

 

[Carols]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

I just checked Nibs' twitter page to see he says anything about possible moves.

He describes himself:
2014 Victory: EmmaVittoria's Father, Campione d'Italia and Tour de France

His biggest victory is his daughter, I'm so totally impressed .

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

I just checked Nibs' twitter page to see he says anything about possible moves.

He describes himself:
2014 Victory: EmmaVittoria's Father, Campione d'Italia and Tour de France

His biggest victory is his daughter, I'm so totally impressed .

Family man

 

[TMP402]

Re:

Olympics will be a week further away from the end of the Tour than in previous olympic years so I feel like Giro is better option than Tour to prepare Rio.

This would be more recovery time and make the Tour a more viable warmup.

Seem to remember Cancellara left for Beijing as soon as the 08 Tour ended to get used to the conditions.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Well, if he intends to do the Giro he needs to tackle the Vuelta in decent shape. Because if Aru wins the Vuelta, Nibali has to ride the Tour.

I doubt it's up to him wheter he'll ride the Giro. I don't think he will do so and I don't think he is the team leader anymore in 2016.

Aru's performance in the Vuelta will determine what GT's Nibali competes in 2016.

I suspect if Aru performs well at the Vuelta, he will ride the TDF in 2016,which means Nibali will ride Giro and Vuelta.

 

[Miburo]

Aru will get destroyed in the tour lol He should go for stage wins not GC.