Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[Rollthedice]

Re:

Will miss him in Liege. I hope he'll be there next year!

Plan is to ride TdF next year so LBL should definitely be on cards.

 

[Summoned]

Because I have too much time and more interest than I should, I decided to try a quick collection of data to see how the field of the 2014 Tour stacked up against others of the last five years, based on the combined number of previous top-10 finishes the top 10 had for each year's Tour.

2012 -- 11
Froome -- N/A
Nibali -- 2009
Van den Broeck -- 2010
van Garderen -- N/A
Zubelida -- 2003, 2006, 2007
Evans -- 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2011
Rolland -- 2011
Brajkovic -- N/A
Pinot -- N/A

2013 -- 8
Quintana -- N/A
Rodriguez -- 2010
Contador -- 2007, 2009, 2011 (split the difference on ones he was retroactively removed)
Kreuziger -- 2009, 2010
Mollema -- N/A
Fuglsang -- N/A
Valverde -- 2007, 2009
Navarro -- N/A
Talansky -- N/A

2014 -- 11
Peraud -- 2011
Pinot -- 2012
Valverde -- 2007, 2009, 2013
van Garderen -- 2012
Bardet -- N/A
Konig -- N/A
Zubeldia -- 2003, 2006, 2007, 2012
ten Dam -- N/A
Mollema -- 2013

2015 -- 18
Quintana -- 2013
Valverde -- 2007, 2009, 2013, 2014
Nibali -- 2009, 2012, 2014
Contador -- 2007, 2009, 2011, 2013
Gesink -- 2010
Mollema -- 2013, 2014
Frank -- N/A
Bardet -- 2014
Rolland -- 2011, 2012

2016 -- 14
Bardet -- 2014, 2015
Quintana -- 2013, 2015
Yates -- N/A
Porte -- N/A
Valverde -- 2007, 2009, 2013, 2014, 2015
Rodriguez -- 2010, 2013
Meintjes -- N/A
Martin -- N/A
Kreuziger -- 2009, 2010, 2013

So, 2014 may have been a weak year, but it was not an unusually weak year, at least by this metric. Which is worth next to nothing, really, except perhaps as a way to frame a discussion.

 

[Breh]

Re:

So, 2014 may have been a weak year, but it was not an unusually weak year, at least by this metric. Which is worth next to nothing, really, except perhaps as a way to frame a discussion.

k, thx for nothing

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

Because I have too much time and more interest than I should, I decided to try a quick collection of data to see how the field of the 2014 Tour stacked up against others of the last five years, based on the combined number of previous top-10 finishes the top 10 had for each year's Tour.

A better indicator would be number of previous finishes on the podium in GTs by riders in the top 5, as there's a massive difference between finishing top 10 and challenging for the title. If a rider who has previously podiumed is finishing outside the top 5, they're clearly off form in that edition of the race

 

[46&twoWheels]

Hope he will find extra motivation now for the Giro.

First time a race will feature "two riders in one".
Quintana better be ready

 

[TommyGun]

Re:

Hope he will find extra motivation now for the Giro.

First time a race will feature "two riders in one".
Quintana better be ready

Yeah, Nibali better win the Giro now! Please, do it for Scarpa

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

Hope he will find extra motivation now for the Giro.

First time a race will feature "two riders in one".
Quintana better be ready

During last year's Giro, Rosario Costa a teenager riding in Messina for a team he sponsors was killed by a truck. Now, his friend and roommate for his last great wins is no more, just before the Giro. Forza Vincenzo.

 

[Summoned]

OK, numbers for previous podium finishes in GT's for top 5 finishers in Tours 2012 - 2016.

2012 - 7
Wiggins - Tour 09, Vuelta 11
Froome - Vuelta 11
Nibali - Giro 10, Vuelta 10, Giro 11
Van Den Broeck - Tour 10
Van Garderen - N/A

2013 - 9
Froome - Vuelta 11, Tour 12
Quintana - N/A
Rodriguez - Vuelta 10, Giro 12
Contador - Tour 07, Giro 08, Vuelta 08, Tour 09, Vuelta 12
Kreuziger - N/A

2014 - 11
Nibali - Giro 10, Vuelta 10, Giro 11, Tour 12, Giro 13, Vuelta 13
Peraud - N/A
Pinot - N/A
Valverde - Vuelta 03, Vuelta 06, Vuelta 09, Vuelta 12, Vuelta 13
Van Garderen - N/A

2015 - 26
Froome - Vuelta 11, Tour 12, Tour 13, Vuelta 14
Quintana - Tour 13, Giro 14
Valverde - Vuelta 03, Vuelta 06, Vuelta 09, Vuelta 12, Vuelta 13, Vuelta 14
Nibali - Giro 10, Vuelta 10, Giro 11, Tour 12, Giro 13, Vuelta 13, Tour 14
Contador - Tour 07, Giro 08, Vuelta 08, Tour 09, Vuelta 12, Vuelta 14, Giro 15

2016 - 8
Froome - Vuelta 11, Tour 12, Tour 13, Vuelta 14, Tour 15
Bardet - N/A
Quintana - Tour 13, Giro 14, Tour 15
Yates - N/A
Porte - N/A

What stands out the most using this metric is just how phenomenal the field was in 2015. But 2014 does OK in this comparison as well.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

It's completely unnecessary to compare the gc contenders of 2014 with the ones of other years. Everyone knows only one of the four best gc riders finished the race and ofc that guy won it. We all know that Nibali had a terrible competition and he had to win the tour, everything else would have been a huge disappointment.

Still he absolutely dominated his competition so unfortunately it's impossible to say who would have won if Froome and Contador hadn't crashed but it's stupid to say Nibali definitely would have won anyway as well as it's stupid to say a guy who beat the 2nd place by seven and a half minutes definitely wouldn't have won.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Yeah, the top-5 of that Tour in 2015 was pretty scary, it was overall a really high level apart from Nibali really not finding shape before the Alps and Contador being really bad for his standards.

 

[silvergrenade]

Cannot understand how Nibali prepares for a GT. By now he should be dropping everyone off of his wheel.
Can't imagine Froome, Contador, Quintana losing a race such as Tour of Croatia with no WT competition in their last warm up race before a GT

 

[killswitch]

Re:

Cannot understand how Nibali prepares for a GT. By now he should be dropping everyone off of his wheel.
Can't imagine Froome, Contador, Quintana losing a race such as Tour of Croatia with no WT competition in their last warm up race before a GT

As the good doctor Ferrari wrote a couple of years ago

...his (Nibali's) coach, the competent Paolo Slongo, is an excellent copyist, but not (yet) a real artist.

...

 

[Atwood]

Re:

Hope he will find extra motivation now for the Giro.

First time a race will feature "two riders in one".
Quintana better be ready

Forza Vincenzo and Michele

 

[huge]

They were true friends.

Nibali posted this pic on his Twitter account along with the words: Today I was not looking for victory at all costs, but it all came with no effort. My friend. This victory is for Giacomo and Tommi! Ciao Scarpa.

Giacomo and Tommi are Scarponi's little twin boys.

Nibali will be giving the money price for today's victory to Scarponi's family, as it is doing Valverde with his LBL price.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

“Kruijswijk was a surprise last year but we know him now and so things will be different, we won’t give him as much space. Then there’s also [Tom] Dumoulin, [Bauke] Mollema, Tejay van Garderen. There are a lot of good riders here at the Giro d’Italia this year.”

WTF does Nibali mean? Give him space?? Kruijswijk took that space not by being in some early break, he simply outclassed you before the fall

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

Will be interesting to see whether Crashweak was a flash in the pan. I'm thinking he was.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

“Kruijswijk was a surprise last year but we know him now and so things will be different, we won’t give him as much space. Then there’s also [Tom] Dumoulin, [Bauke] Mollema, Tejay van Garderen. There are a lot of good riders here at the Giro d’Italia this year.”

WTF does Nibali mean? Give him space?? Kruijswijk took that space not by being in some early break, he simply outclassed you before the fall

Nibali took it on him to force the selection on Valparola. If he had played it more defensively there, he would probably not have lost time to Kruijswijk and Chaves, I think.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

“Kruijswijk was a surprise last year but we know him now and so things will be different, we won’t give him as much space. Then there’s also [Tom] Dumoulin, [Bauke] Mollema, Tejay van Garderen. There are a lot of good riders here at the Giro d’Italia this year.”

WTF does Nibali mean? Give him space?? Kruijswijk took that space not by being in some early break, he simply outclassed you before the fall

Nibali took it on him to force the selection on Valparola. If he had played it more defensively there, he would probably not have lost time to Kruijswijk and Chaves, I think.

Regardless one can hardly deny Kruijswijk was pretty much in a class of his own. Arguably Chaves was at least as strong as him in the first 2 weeks. But in the time trial and in the 3rd week Kruijswijk was the strongest of the GC men. He wasnt "given space". That is what strikes me as weird.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

“Kruijswijk was a surprise last year but we know him now and so things will be different, we won’t give him as much space. Then there’s also [Tom] Dumoulin, [Bauke] Mollema, Tejay van Garderen. There are a lot of good riders here at the Giro d’Italia this year.”

WTF does Nibali mean? Give him space?? Kruijswijk took that space not by being in some early break, he simply outclassed you before the fall

Nibali took it on him to force the selection on Valparola. If he had played it more defensively there, he would probably not have lost time to Kruijswijk and Chaves, I think.

Regardless one can hardly denie Kruijswijk was pretty much in a class of his own. Arguably Chaves was at least as strong as him in the first 2 weeks. But in the time trial and in the 3rd week Kruijswijk was the strongest of the GC men. He wasnt "given space". That is what strikes me as weird.

Definitely is weird. I think he means he simply didn't expect him to perform so well as Kruijswijk really wasn't allowed anything.

 

[Rollthedice]

The reference to Crashweak in Italian was this:

Fra questi c’è anche Kruijswijk che magari l’anno scorso ha giocato un po’ sul fattore sorpresa, ma quest’anno sappiamo tutti il suo valore. Difficilmente gli verrà lasciato più spazio perché ha dimostrato di esser un corridore molto solido.

My poor Italian seems to be better though as the anglo journos who translated it and inflamed certain Dutch cycling fans. Google translate is more accurate:

Among them is Kruijswijk who maybe last year played a bit on the surprise factor, but this year we all know its worth. He will hardly be given more space because he has proven to be a very solid runner

 

[May0maniac]

I still think that Nibali went a bit to early on the Valparola, before the false flat. The perfect moment to attacl would probably be the on the long straight after the false flat, before the hairpins tat start aftr the Cinque Torri ski station, but he wanted to show Valverde who's the boss and take him out of the fight for gc (Nibali outspinting Valverde on stage 13 is still a wtf moment,even if it was a headwind sprint).

 

[dfromdub]

Re:

(Nibali outspinting Valverde on stage 13 is still a wtf moment,even if it was a headwind sprint).

To be fair (and here is something nobody brought up last year) Valverde did not know there were bonification seconds for the first in that sprint.

I went back on the gazzetta website and I found the article with the post-stage interview bits:
http://www.gazzetta.it/Giroditalia/2016/it/20-05-2016/giro-d-italia-vincenzo-nibali-oggi-ho-vinto-io-alejandro-valverde-abbuoni-non-ci-ho-provato-sprint-volata-cividale-150759166386.shtml

"Lo sprint? Non sapevo che c'erano solo due corridori davanti altrimenti avrei interpretato lo sprint in modo diverso. In ogni caso la corsa è uguale, tutto resta com'era; abbiamo preso la maglia rosa, è quello che volevamo.".

Which roughly translates to: "The sprint? I did not know there were only two riders in front of us otherwise I would have opted for a much different sprint. Anyway the race is still the same, nothing changed, we lost the pink jersey which is what we wanted."
In the article I linked you can also see the small video with Valverde's interview right after the stage. As I remembered he seems very surprised at something they are telling him from his team car. You can not hear what they are telling him but it is likely that they are confirming him that he lost those two seconds due to bonifications.

... So it was not really about Nibali doing such a monster sprint, but more like Valverde messing up in that situation.

EDIT: I found the article with the full interview:
http://archiviostorico.gazzetta.it//2016/maggio/21/fastidioVal_rde_non_sapevo_che_ga_0_20160521_9d463220-1f18-11e6-ad07-230a52ea8ff4.shtml

These are the interesting bits:

«Non sapevo che fosse in palio l'abbuono, pensavo che davanti ce ne fossero più di due», ha ammesso il 36enne murciano della Movistar (pare che le radio non funzionassero).
...
...
...
Poi si torna su quella volata anomala. «Nibali l'ho visto bene, mi è rimasto il fastidio (in spagnolo ha usato il colorito estoy jodido) perché appunto non sapevo dell'abbuono, ho sprintato lungo perché volevo far guadagnare più tempo ad Amador»

"I did not know there was a bonification, I thought that there were more than two (riders) in front of us" admitted the 36 years old murcian of Movistar (it seems that radios were not working).
...
...
...
Then we come back on that anomalous sprint. "Nibali looks in good shape, I am a bit annoyed because, as I said, I did not know about the bonification, I sprinted early because I wanted Amador to gain more time."

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

(Nibali outspinting Valverde on stage 13 is still a wtf moment,even if it was a headwind sprint).

To be fair (and here is something nobody brought up last year) Valverde did not know there were bonification seconds for the first in that sprint.

I went back on the gazzetta website and I found the article with the post-stage interview bits:
http://www.gazzetta.it/Giroditalia/2016/it/20-05-2016/giro-d-italia-vincenzo-nibali-oggi-ho-vinto-io-alejandro-valverde-abbuoni-non-ci-ho-provato-sprint-volata-cividale-150759166386.shtml

"Lo sprint? Non sapevo che c'erano solo due corridori davanti altrimenti avrei interpretato lo sprint in modo diverso. In ogni caso la corsa è uguale, tutto resta com'era; abbiamo preso la maglia rosa, è quello che volevamo.".

Which roughly translates to: "The sprint? I did not know there were only two riders in front of us otherwise I would have opted for a much different sprint. Anyway the race is still the same, nothing changed, we lost the pink jersey which is what we wanted."
In the article I linked you can also see the small video with Valverde's interview right after the stage. As I remembered he seems very surprised at something they are telling him from his team car. You can not hear what they are telling him but it is likely that they are confirming him that he lost those two seconds due to bonifications.

... So it was not really about Nibali doing such a monster sprint, but more like Valverde messing up in that situation.

He did mess it up, whether he really was clueless about boni seconds or just found out a good excuse. But Nibali won the sprint against a fairly large group which was surprising.

 

[johnymax]

I still feel like Nibali is being underrated around here. Quintana should be the favourite but Nibali isn't far behind if you ask me. He can win even if he's not the strongest rider in the race. He is a true racer and he's shown that several times. I believe he can still reach a high level of peak form, at least as good as in last year's Giro third week. That would be enough to be in the mix for the win imo. And if Nibali is in the mix we all know he'll try anything to get the final victory. If we add some extra motivation, Scarponi, Sicily, 100th Giro,...he'll be there fighting with Quintana (and hopefully some other riders in form) for the top position, I'm pretty sure.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Nibali discussion thread

“Kruijswijk was a surprise last year but we know him now and so things will be different, we won’t give him as much space. Then there’s also [Tom] Dumoulin, [Bauke] Mollema, Tejay van Garderen. There are a lot of good riders here at the Giro d’Italia this year.”

WTF does Nibali mean? Give him space?? Kruijswijk took that space not by being in some early break, he simply outclassed you before the fall

Nibali took it on him to force the selection on Valparola. If he had played it more defensively there, he would probably not have lost time to Kruijswijk and Chaves, I think.

Regardless one can hardly deny Kruijswijk was pretty much in a class of his own. Arguably Chaves was at least as strong as him in the first 2 weeks. But in the time trial and in the 3rd week Kruijswijk was the strongest of the GC men. He wasnt "given space". That is what strikes me as weird.

I think he meant the he surprised him, how strong he was, he didn't expect that. Before Valparola stage it was Nibali vs Valverde. Nibali attacked and Valverde dropped, so Nibbles pulled like a mad man, he didn't cared that much for Chaves and Kruijswijk. But he was wrong, as he would see couple of minutes later. Maybe he meant that he wouldn't pull like that if he knew that Kruijswijk is that strong.