Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[lenric]

Re:

I don't know chaves but his performance only suggest that he is very vulnerable at the moment and I also read an interview from someone inside Orica (I don't remember if it was White) and he said that the death of his former coach(?) affected chaves really bad.
Cycling is a very cruel sport and to have success in cycling, you have to be very strong mentally

Again you're showing you speak mindlessly. Chaves hasn't raced since February. It would be ridiculous to expect a single thing from him.

Regarding the death of his former coach, you don't know the nature of their relationship (which, in fact, was a close friend), so you can't assert that's he's mentally weak because of that. Either way, he still is in the race, so he's not that mentally weak.

Start informing yourself a bit more before writing, please.

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

I don't know chaves but his performance only suggest that he is very vulnerable at the moment and I also read an interview from someone inside Orica (I don't remember if it was White) and he said that the death of his former coach(?) affected chaves really bad.
Cycling is a very cruel sport and to have success in cycling, you have to be very strong mentally

Again you're showing you speak mindlessly. Chaves hasn't raced since February. It would be ridiculous to expect a single thing from him.

Regarding the death of his former coach, you don't know the nature of their relationship (which, in fact, was a close friend), so you can't assert that's he's mentally weak because of that. Either way, he still is in the race, so he's not that mentally weak.

Start informing yourself a bit more before writing, please.

He raced the dauphine so what you said isn't true.
Start informing yourself a bit more before writing

 

[StryderHells]

Re:

I don't know chaves but his performance only suggest that he is very vulnerable at the moment and I also read an interview from someone inside Orica (I don't remember if it was White) and he said that the death of his former coach(?) affected chaves really bad.
Cycling is a very cruel sport and to have success in cycling, you have to be very strong mentally

And from that you came to the conclusion that you think his cycling career is over? How about we give him some time to actually grieve before coming to such conclusions, that he's actually at the biggest race on the calendar after the death of someone so close to him is a testament to his mental strength, I doubt I could grieve for a someone so close and race the Tour at the same time.

 

[perico]

Contador is going to be there

 

[dacooley]

calling a two time grand tour podium finisher mentally vulnerable. wow. guys, i don't know what sport you are following.

 

[portugal11]

Re:

calling a two time grand tour podium finisher mentally vulnerable. wow. guys, i don't know what sport you are following.

I didn't say he is vulnerable mentally... i said he is vulnerable AT THE MOMENT

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

calling a two time grand tour podium finisher mentally vulnerable. wow. guys, i don't know what sport you are following.

I didn't say he is vulnerable mentally... i said he is vulnerable AT THE MOMENT

Well, the Vuelta isn't at the moment.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

I don't know chaves but his performance only suggest that he is very vulnerable at the moment and I also read an interview from someone inside Orica (I don't remember if it was White) and he said that the death of his former coach(?) affected chaves really bad.
Cycling is a very cruel sport and to have success in cycling, you have to be very strong mentally

Again you're showing you speak mindlessly. Chaves hasn't raced since February. It would be ridiculous to expect a single thing from him.

Regarding the death of his former coach, you don't know the nature of their relationship (which, in fact, was a close friend), so you can't assert that's he's mentally weak because of that. Either way, he still is in the race, so he's not that mentally weak.

Start informing yourself a bit more before writing, please.

He raced the dauphine so what you said isn't true.
Start informing yourself a bit more before writing

He did. However, it wouldn't mean a thing performance-wise, since he was more than 3 months without any racing.

Moreover, your initial post was something like "Chaves in mentally vulnerable". Only in a further post you corrected it into "at the moment". So, either you're stating that he is overall a mentally weak rider, which you don't know, or he's mentally weak at the moment (which is unlikely, since he's still riding. That is not to say, however, that he isn't sad, because he is, like every single one of us would be in his place), so you can't assert that he'll have a bad performance in the Vuelta because he's mentally broken (which none of us can state) right now.

See the non-sense in your position, or do you require a better explanation? A drawing, perhaps?

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

I don't know chaves but his performance only suggest that he is very vulnerable at the moment and I also read an interview from someone inside Orica (I don't remember if it was White) and he said that the death of his former coach(?) affected chaves really bad.
Cycling is a very cruel sport and to have success in cycling, you have to be very strong mentally

Again you're showing you speak mindlessly. Chaves hasn't raced since February. It would be ridiculous to expect a single thing from him.

Regarding the death of his former coach, you don't know the nature of their relationship (which, in fact, was a close friend), so you can't assert that's he's mentally weak because of that. Either way, he still is in the race, so he's not that mentally weak.

Start informing yourself a bit more before writing, please.

He raced the dauphine so what you said isn't true.
Start informing yourself a bit more before writing

He did. However, it wouldn't mean a thing performance-wise, since he was more than 3 months without any racing.

Moreover, your initial post was something like "Chaves in mentally vulnerable". Only in a further post you corrected it into "at the moment". So, either you're stating that he is overall a mentally weak rider, which you don't know, or he's mentally weak at the moment (which is unlikely, since he's still riding. That is not to say, however, that he isn't sad, because he is, like every single one of us would be in his place), so you can't assert that he'll have a bad performance in the Vuelta because he's mentally broken (which none of us can state) right now.

See the non-sense in your position, or do you require a better explanation? A drawing, perhaps?

Are you portuguese right? Eu queria dizer que "ele está vulnerável" mas infelizmente o verbo be significa ser/estar portanto tu deves ter percebido que eu disse que "ele é vulnerável". O meu inglês não é perfeito, desculpa.
E estar a correr não significa que ele não esteja assim tão afetado. Ele está caído completamente no anonimato neste tour e ele tem qualidade para muito mais. Mods, sorry for posting in portuguese

 

[Eagle]

Who are Bahrain likely to send to the Vuelta, similar team as the Giro?

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

You guys are seriously forgetting Chaves. He will be fresh and ready to go!

Chaves won't be a threat at all. He is very vulnerable mentally. I don't think if he will ever be the same again. He is destroyed

So you figure he will be in mourning for the rest of his career? That is a pretty extreme conclusion to come to about someone that you don't know. Additionally if he were as weak mentally as you seem to believe I can't imagine that he would've been able to come back from the injuries that threatened his career, and come back at the elite level that many had predicted for him prior to the injuries.

 

[Sestriere]

Re:

Who are Bahrain likely to send to the Vuelta, similar team as the Giro?

Good question. Does anyone know whether Izagirre and Navardauskas will be race ready by then? Izagirre's injury seemed to be quite severe.

 

[ice&fire]

Re: Re:

Who are Bahrain likely to send to the Vuelta, similar team as the Giro?

Good question. Does anyone know whether Izagirre and Navardauskas will be race ready by then? Izagirre's injury seemed to be quite severe.

Izagirre was on the phone on Spanish TV a few days ago during a stage broadcast and said that his season was finished.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

Who are Bahrain likely to send to the Vuelta, similar team as the Giro?

Good question. Does anyone know whether Izagirre and Navardauskas will be race ready by then? Izagirre's injury seemed to be quite severe.

Navardauskas has to rest after cardiac arrhythmia was found at the end of June. In the Dolomites training camp there's Pellizotti, Boaro, Visconti, Novak, Cortina and brother Antonio. Probably Agnoli and Moreno will make the team.

 

[Red Rick]

I find it very hard to speculate on Nibali, mostly because he's stopped doing relative spring peaks, and because his level in GTs also seems all over the place in the last few years.

On the other hand, i think there's arguments to be made for similarities in Nibali's level and buildup in the 2015 Tour and 2016 and 2017 Giro's. Slow buildup toward it, seemingly lacking in the first few weeks and only on full fighting form in the last week. That, mixed in with off days not so bad in 2017, and some pretty spectacular days make his GTs pretty variable now. I do think that the competition in these races is hard to estimate as well, and I honestly think that his third week levels are similar to the glory days but in the past he just used to be better in the first two weeks.

The weird thing about the Giro this year was that even the who were supposed to peak in the 3rd week failed seemed to fade toward the end. By that I mean Quintana and Nibali. Only Zaka and Pozzo seemed to not fade toward the end.

I also don't really think the field of the Giro stacks up that unfavourably to the Tour field. Sure, the Giro didn't have Froome, but over the last 2 years or so the level of those who fight for the win and those who fight for top 5 in a GT has seemed to level out somewhat. I don't think an Aru, Dan Martin or Bardet would've dominated that Giro uphill. Nor Froome for that matter.

It's hard to say what that means for the Vuelta for Nibali. It doesn't suit him that well. He can't be great for only one week. He won't be the best in the typical 20 minute efforts where the last 5 minutes are full throttle. On the other hand, he shouldn't lose too much time in the ITT, and I think that Froome isn't gonna light it up in that hard in the Vuelta. He may have done an easy build-up toward the Tour, but putting his Tour at risk for the Tour-Vuelta double is not the Sky way.

Many other major contenders for GTs seem to be excluded from the Vuelta GC by default. Quintana did the double. Valverde and Porte are out due to injuries. Contador is underperforming already. Dumoulin most likely won't target the GC

What other riders are we looking at suddenly. There's a gaping hole of sub-favorites in GTs right now. The major GT winners of the last few years are either slowly on the way back or underperforming. Few others have already taking a victory or close. This is a role Purito would've had, but he retired a year ago. It's a role I foresee for the likes of Chaves.

I don't see the likes of Uran, Yates or Bardet or Aru fight for victory in 2 straight GTs. If Contador finds himself he may find himself in GT contention ones again.

Or are we gonna look at Gerain Thomas. Again? Or at a new face we haven't thought about previously.

Come Vuelta the situation will be very interesting. And not just for the top spot.

 

[Netserk]

If Contador finishes the Tour well, he will be a contender in the Vuelta as well. Probably about even with Nibali.

 

[Sestriere]

Re: Re:

Who are Bahrain likely to send to the Vuelta, similar team as the Giro?

Good question. Does anyone know whether Izagirre and Navardauskas will be race ready by then? Izagirre's injury seemed to be quite severe.

Navardauskas has to rest after cardiac arrhythmia was found at the end of June. In the Dolomites training camp there's Pellizotti, Boaro, Visconti, Novak, Cortina and brother Antonio. Probably Agnoli and Moreno will make the team.

Man, that guy has some serious bad luck after a promissing start to the season. Maybe he can make it back for the worlds, the course should suit him.

 

[Rollthedice]

This Giro seems to confirm that he will not reach again the 2013/2014 level and I can only speculate that Slongo is aware and is changing his training approach. How else can we explain his seated high cadence accelerations in almost TT position trying to close down Quintana in the first week while reverting to the usual out of the saddle riding in the last week? The crank adjustment controversy in Giro 2016 or the Basso style of diesel riding? On the other hand there is a group of younger riders who are capable to output higher numbers on shorter efforts making it difficult for him to limit his loses until endurance and longer multiple climbs play to his abilities which also include his formidable recovery quality. Things are changing, age is catching up and he tries to adjust.

For example last year in Giro he attacked in a few important stages just to discover he doesn't have it, get countered and loosing a lot of time. This year they took a conservative approach, defend and try to make the difference in the TT and last hard week. Unfortunately he misjudged his main rival on Blockhaus which should have been Dumoulin and not Nairo, blowing up in trying to follow the Colombian. Nobody knew then of course that Tom would challenge Pantani's record on Oropa soon.

You are right that it's difficult to speculate how he will perform in Vuelta and next year we will see if he is still capable to peak for spring races as LBL will be on the menu with TdF later.

 

[lenric]

Re:

I find it very hard to speculate on Nibali, mostly because he's stopped doing relative spring peaks, and because his level in GTs also seems all over the place in the last few years.

On the other hand, i think there's arguments to be made for similarities in Nibali's level and buildup in the 2015 Tour and 2016 and 2017 Giro's. Slow buildup toward it, seemingly lacking in the first few weeks and only on full fighting form in the last week. That, mixed in with off days not so bad in 2017, and some pretty spectacular days make his GTs pretty variable now. I do think that the competition in these races is hard to estimate as well, and I honestly think that his third week levels are similar to the glory days but in the past he just used to be better in the first two weeks.

The weird thing about the Giro this year was that even the who were supposed to peak in the 3rd week failed seemed to fade toward the end. By that I mean Quintana and Nibali. Only Zaka and Pozzo seemed to not fade toward the end.

I also don't really think the field of the Giro stacks up that unfavourably to the Tour field. Sure, the Giro didn't have Froome, but over the last 2 years or so the level of those who fight for the win and those who fight for top 5 in a GT has seemed to level out somewhat. I don't think an Aru, Dan Martin or Bardet would've dominated that Giro uphill. Nor Froome for that matter.

It's hard to say what that means for the Vuelta for Nibali. It doesn't suit him that well. He can't be great for only one week. He won't be the best in the typical 20 minute efforts where the last 5 minutes are full throttle. On the other hand, he shouldn't lose too much time in the ITT, and I think that Froome isn't gonna light it up in that hard in the Vuelta. He may have done an easy build-up toward the Tour, but putting his Tour at risk for the Tour-Vuelta double is not the Sky way.

Many other major contenders for GTs seem to be excluded from the Vuelta GC by default. Quintana did the double. Valverde and Porte are out due to injuries. Contador is underperforming already. Dumoulin most likely won't target the GC

What other riders are we looking at suddenly. There's a gaping hole of sub-favorites in GTs right now. The major GT winners of the last few years are either slowly on the way back or underperforming. Few others have already taking a victory or close. This is a role Purito would've had, but he retired a year ago. It's a role I foresee for the likes of Chaves.

I don't see the likes of Uran, Yates or Bardet or Aru fight for victory in 2 straight GTs. If Contador finds himself he may find himself in GT contention ones again.

Or are we gonna look at Gerain Thomas. Again? Or at a new face we haven't thought about previously.

Come Vuelta the situation will be very interesting. And not just for the top spot.

Chaves.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

I don't know chaves but his performance only suggest that he is very vulnerable at the moment and I also read an interview from someone inside Orica (I don't remember if it was White) and he said that the death of his former coach(?) affected chaves really bad.
Cycling is a very cruel sport and to have success in cycling, you have to be very strong mentally

Again you're showing you speak mindlessly. Chaves hasn't raced since February. It would be ridiculous to expect a single thing from him.

Regarding the death of his former coach, you don't know the nature of their relationship (which, in fact, was a close friend), so you can't assert that's he's mentally weak because of that. Either way, he still is in the race, so he's not that mentally weak.

Start informing yourself a bit more before writing, please.

He raced the dauphine so what you said isn't true.
Start informing yourself a bit more before writing

He did. However, it wouldn't mean a thing performance-wise, since he was more than 3 months without any racing.

Moreover, your initial post was something like "Chaves in mentally vulnerable". Only in a further post you corrected it into "at the moment". So, either you're stating that he is overall a mentally weak rider, which you don't know, or he's mentally weak at the moment (which is unlikely, since he's still riding. That is not to say, however, that he isn't sad, because he is, like every single one of us would be in his place), so you can't assert that he'll have a bad performance in the Vuelta because he's mentally broken (which none of us can state) right now.

See the non-sense in your position, or do you require a better explanation? A drawing, perhaps?

Are you portuguese right? Eu queria dizer que "ele está vulnerável" mas infelizmente o verbo be significa ser/estar portanto tu deves ter percebido que eu disse que "ele é vulnerável". O meu inglês não é perfeito, desculpa.
E estar a correr não significa que ele não esteja assim tão afetado. Ele está caído completamente no anonimato neste tour e ele tem qualidade para muito mais. Mods, sorry for posting in portuguese

Ok then, fair enough. Cheers

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Who are Bahrain likely to send to the Vuelta, similar team as the Giro?

Good question. Does anyone know whether Izagirre and Navardauskas will be race ready by then? Izagirre's injury seemed to be quite severe.

Navardauskas has to rest after cardiac arrhythmia was found at the end of June. In the Dolomites training camp there's Pellizotti, Boaro, Visconti, Novak, Cortina and brother Antonio. Probably Agnoli and Moreno will make the team.

Man, that guy has some serious bad luck after a promissing start to the season. Maybe he can make it back for the worlds, the course should suit him.

It's a shame because he is a great rider, strong on the flats and is able to get over hills well and can sprint. If I owned a team then he'd be one of my first choices for a solid teammate.

 

[SafeBet]

I thought the route was not ideal for Nibbles, but then I looked at it and for Vuelta standards it's not bad at all.
Would be cool to watch a Contador vs Nibali GC fight (possibly their last?) attacking from far out whenever there's a chance to.

 

[Carols]

He looked good today until the final km. Then it was the head down tell and he kept losing positions. But he should move forward off the effort

 

[Valv.Piti]

It was a very good performance taken everything into consideration, he has really put work in during the summer and wants to win La Vuelta. I expected worse today.

 

[Rollthedice]

He looked good today until the final km. Then it was the head down tell and he kept losing positions. But he should move forward off the effort

He was never brilliant at these types of finishes, he finished 12th a handful of seconds down to Yates, for example. I think he did well. Slongo said before Poland that Vincenzo is on the right track and is convinced only small adjustments will be needed before the Vuelta.