Teams & Riders Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

[BlueRoads]

I got nothing against Nibali, but how much sense does it make to count wins and podiums and stuff? Every race has different conditions, a different startlist quality, a difference in how much how many riders fight for the win, then there is different team support, and as much as I love lists, I just can't see how counting really helps to answer a question of who is the better rider. Not even talking about riders of other times here. When Merckx won the world was far from the professional cycling world of today.
Nibali and Valverde might be rather comparable, but in the end... I would look at each race, not count wins, 1+1. And sometimes you just can't decide who's better.

 

[Blanco]

Good work here.
I think an excellent comparison for Nibali is Gimondi.

GTs
Nibali 4 wins, 11 podiums, 14 top 10’s
Gimondi 5 wins, 12 podiums, 18 top 10's

Monuments
Nibali 3 wins, 6 podiums, 12 top 10’s
Gimondi 4 wins, 10 podiums, 19 top 10's

Gimondi also won a WC and podiumed a couple more, which places him in a tier above Nibali (and Valverde). If Nibali won a WC/Olympics before retiring I would probably put him in the same tier as Gimondi.
At the moment I agree Nibali and Valverde belong to the same tier. Wether you take one career over the other is a matter of personal preference and I wouldn't argue against either opinion.

Yep, I agree on this. And I would add that no one of all other greatest riders in this century (Bettini, Boonen, Contador, Cancellara, Froome, Gilbert and Sagan) is not in tier above these two.

 

[tobydawq]

Yep, I agree on this. And I would add that no one of all other greatest riders in this century (Bettini, Boonen, Contador, Cancellara, Froome, Gilbert and Sagan) is not in tier above these two.

I have a hard time following the negation game in this post.

 

[Koronin]

I do think the results show that Nibali and Valverde are on a similar level to each other and as all rounders above the rest of the peloton from this century. Nibali has an edge when it comes to GT's while Valverde has the edge for one day races and pure overall victories. So it really comes down to personal preference between the two.

However, the stats are interesting to look at.

 

[skippo12]

Not exactly a strong supporting cast if the latest rumors are true. Weening, De Kort, Ciccone, Brambilla, Bernard, Mosca, Conci and his brother. No Porte or Mollema. I guess Mollema is targeting the classics but I wonder what the plan for Porte is (Vuelta?).

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Not exactly a strong supporting cast if the latest rumors are true. Weening, De Kort, Ciccone, Brambilla, Bernard, Mosca, Conci and his brother. No Porte or Mollema. I guess Mollema is targeting the classics but I wonder what the plan for Porte is (Vuelta?).

There aren't going to be any strong GC teams at the Giro. Who is Ineos going to bring in support of Carapaz? I think Dunbar and Sosa (or was it Hart and Sosa) were doing the Vuelta. So two of them are ruled out. Dennis and Ganna will also want to go for the ITT's so how far are they willing to pull their weight? If Amador doesn't go to the Tour, they could bring him. Then who? Henao? So that's possibly Henao, Hart and Amador. Good guys but not "they're gonna tear it up" -good.

Quickstep has Knox, Serry and Cattaneo in support of Evenepoel most likely. Who does EF have left that's not going to the Tour to support Carthy, or Bora for Majka?

 

[jaylew]

Crazy that we're talking about guys like Carthy, Majka, and a first timer like Evenepoel as part of the top tier of contenders. Sure, it'll be fun regardless, but the Giro really is a 'B' race this year, at least GC-wise. Nibali should go ahead and join the party at the Tour and give us another triple threat.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Crazy that we're talking about guys like Carthy, Majka, and a first timer like Evenepoel as part of the top tier of contenders. Sure, it'll be fun regardless, but the Giro really is a 'B' race this year, at least GC-wise. Nibali should go ahead and join the party at the Tour and give us another triple threat.

There is also Fuglsang, and half the forum thought he was gonna win the TDF last year, so he should count?

 

[jaylew]

There is also Fuglsang, and half the forum thought he was gonna win the TDF last year, so he should count?

Yeah, the idea that he would come up early in a conversation about contenders for the win in a GT shows how weak the field is. Of course we haven't heard the MS plans and I'm sure a rider or two will have to change plans.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I was just messing around and poking fun of people claiming he would be a contender at the TDF.

 

[tobydawq]

Fuglsang will, of course, win the Giro.

 

[Rollthedice]

Trek support for Nibali at the Giro will be fine. Ciccone as the main man, cameos from Antonio and this young hope Weening, Brambilla in good shape is suitable, Conci is no slouch. They'll train together with Slongo at altitude in Italy (Nibali's favorite Passo San Pellegrino) in July , all good.

As for the field, we have a rematch of first and second from last year plus a young hope and an old hope. That's about it.

 

[Climbing]

Mostly, lotsa teams scared about october and racing...
Nonetheless with the calendar changes he'll have a real shot at Worlds, that imho suits him way way better than OG.

 

[Rollthedice]

Mostly, lotsa teams scared about october and racing...
Nonetheless with the calendar changes he'll have a real shot at Worlds, that imho suits him way way better than OG.

It's tricky, it'll be before the Giro and I don't think he'll be 100%. More like LBL shape last year which I don't think it's enough plus lots of rivals with TdF form. And he said Giro is his no. 1 target.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Dont worry, there will be plenty of more guys suiting up in October. Lots of riders wants revenge for the Tour as usual. Cant wait to see the final route.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Dont worry, there will be plenty of more guys suiting up in October. Lots of riders wants revenge for the Tour as usual. Cant wait to see the final route.

How do you mean? You think somebody who did the Tour, but didn't live up to expectations, will be able to not only prolong his form, but be rested as well with the Giro only starting 2 weeks later?

Maybe if one of those guys crashes in the first week and decides to get out to shift focus on the Giro. Otherwise i don't see it happening this year. Shifting focus towards the Vuelta seems far more likely.

 

[Climbing]

It's tricky, it'll be before the Giro and I don't think he'll be 100%. More like LBL shape last year which I don't think it's enough plus lots of rivals with TdF form. And he said Giro is his no. 1 target.

I think he will be 100%, it's just 1 week before, just need 1 month of form.
Only hope he's not too sharp already, he's riding a lot in August as well looks like.

 

[Rollthedice]

Slongo says Nibali should be competitive right from the beginning, Strade on August 1st. He should be at 100% at the Worlds and keep the shape for four weeks. At the end of September and October, Slongo says the temps are adequate for better recovery.

" It just changes that we will try to be in shape right away and then try to handle the shape differently. If we understand that in Sanremo and Lombardy we will already be in shape, unlike in other years, in which generally the shape slowly rises, we could manage the approach to the Giro d'Italia with periods of unloading. The perspective changes a little bit, if the condition arrives first instead of gradually increasing we try to keep it or decrease it slightly."

 

[Valv.Piti]

Will be a Nibz vs Richie v. 2 im pretty sure, only this time Nibali knows who his real rival if. Then of course this little boy from Belgium might win it all while they are watching eachother, lol

 

[tobydawq]

I was really confused there... As in when did Porte versus Nibali ever be a thing? And they're teammates now??

Not that Richie.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I was really confused there... As in when did Porte versus Nibali ever be a thing? And they're teammates now??

Not that Richie.

Same! Took me a minute.

 

[RedheadDane]

I was really confused there... As in when did Porte versus Nibali ever be a thing? And they're teammates now??

Not that Richie.

Same! Took me a minute.

Yep... same...

 

[SHAD0W93]

Yep... same...

Let's just all go back to bed and sleep it off.

 

[tobydawq]

That made me curious, and at least I was right in thinking that Porte versus Nibali has never been a thing. They have only ever been in the same top 10 of a race three (!!!!) times*, which I find to be an astonishingly low number for two riders as prominent as them, considering how long they have both been in the peloton.

One of the four was the overall GC of the 2010 Giro (Nibali third, Porte seventh), and just once did they both feature in the same top 5. That was on stage 8 of the 2014 Tour, where they were the ones who were closest to be able to match Contador's pace on the climb up to the finish in Gérardmer (Blel Kadri won the stage from a break) the day before he crashed out of the race. On that day, Nibali was third and Porte was fourth. Then Nibali went on to have a slightly better race than Porte.

*Originally, I wrote four but that included the final TT of the 2011 Giro where Nibali has been credited 10th after the disqualification of Contador. I don't count such nonsense.

 

[Rollthedice]

Sporza Retro takes on the Arenberg stage in Tour 2014. I don't understand one word but it's wonderful:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN6Bczi41OA&t=1338s