Vincenzo Nibali

[skippythepinhead]

Doping does not provide skillz and tactical nous - which is what we saw yesterday and why people will always prefer Nibali to Froome even if both are doping equally

^^^yes

Plus Sky's penchant for speedballing Holierthanthounisone and Horsecrapp

 

[djpbaltimore]

I think a few are alluding to that but even the one's not are saying that this doesn't indicate doping, when if it was Froome then everyone would be saying it definitely was.

I am largely in agreement with the clinic consensus on Froome but it doesnt mean the different standards used for team sky and other teams, purely when judging things by performances is astounding.

I mostly agree with this opinion. If situations yesterday were reversed between Nibali and Froome, I don't think a single person would be giving Froome credit for tactical nous and bravery. IMO, it would be 100% saying it was a dope fueled accomplishment and 'horse steroids' would've been mentioned probably 1 million times. Of course it is a hypothetical, so YMMV.

I actually hope that Nibali takes the victory this year, so I am not trying to criticize what was an incredible performance. But I think there is a double standard within the forum about doping and Froome/ Sky.

 

[filipo]

I mostly agree with this opinion. If situations yesterday were reversed between Nibali and Froome, I don't think a single person would be giving Froome credit for tactical nous and bravery. IMO, it would be 100% saying it was a dope fueled accomplishment and 'horse steroids' would've been mentioned probably 1 million times. Of course it is a hypothetical, so YMMV.

No one ever, anywhere, would give Froome credit for tactical nous, because he has none. Zero. And there was never a chance in hell that Froome would finish anywhere near the front yesterday, fractured wrist or no.

I know this is a cliche, but -- do you guys watch cycling?

 

[filipo]

Kittel and Nibali in the same boat? I wouldnt put my hand in the fire for kittel and I think he is a hypocrite, but there is far more evidence against Nibali.

??
Kittel admitted to having his blood drawn and later reinfused -- the so-called ozone therapy. Rather less evidence than actual proof of doping, no?

 

[Justico]

More and more hypocrisis

I like Nibali even if he is a doper but i post 30,000 angry posts in Sky threads

 

[djpbaltimore]

No one ever, anywhere, would give Froome credit for tactical nous, because he has none. Zero. And there was never a chance in hell that Froome would finish anywhere near the front yesterday, fractured wrist or no.

I know this is a cliche, but -- do you guys watch cycling?

No, I have never watched a cycling race in my entire life. I just happened to stumble into a cycling forum while looking for youtube clips of cats.

This is exactly the type of BS that I was alluding to, so thanks for proving my point. I call it 'belief dependent reality'. People assume Froome has no tactical nous, so they look for every piece of evidence to support that supposition. If ever contradicted by results, the fallback response will be that 'it was only the dope'. If healthy, I feel Froome would've been right up with Thomas and Porte. Nibali and Astana were a cut above on the stage, so credit to them, but the anti-Sky vitriol can be nonsensical at times IMO.

 

[whittashau]

How would him having finished with Thomas and Froome equate to Froome being at the front? And how would that be an example of Froome showing tactical nous?

 

[filipo]

This is exactly the type of BS that I was alluding to, so thanks for proving my point. I call it 'belief dependent reality'. People assume Froome has no tactical nous, so they look for every piece of evidence to support that supposition. If ever contradicted by results, the fallback response will be that 'it was only the dope'. If healthy, I feel Froome would've been right up with Thomas and Porte. Nibali and Astana were a cut above on the stage, so credit to them, but the anti-Sky vitriol can be nonsensical at times IMO.

Yeah, see, the conditional doesn't really work with racing. Froome wasn't healthy, so he stuffed it. And he wasn't healthy because he crashed three times. And he crashed three times, many would argue, because he doesn't have the sense to position himself intelligently.

You can call it whatever you like, but the real reality is that Froome is no Chris Horner. He doesn't read a race to win it, he just destroys the field. Whether or not that's down to dope is irrelevant. Please show me some evidence of this tactical intelligence. Even pre-2011 -- anything that says "Gosh that Chris Froome read that one right."

 

[webbie146]

Quote from Ferrari: " drferrari, Italy 10 Jul 2014
Concordo con le considerazioni sul team Sky.
Nibali sembra il più forte , ma non sottovalutare la classe di Contador, anche se bisognerà vedere quanto gli è costato il Delfinato...
Occhio a Valverde, che è un fuoriclasse anche se forse ancora non lo sa."

Google translate sucks, can anyone translate? I think he's saying Nibali looks strongest so far right?

And could someone translate this one too please:

"Come ho descritto nel mio ultimo commento alle corse, il Delfinato è una corsa molto impegnativa nei percorsi e , se corsa "a tutta", anticipa il picco di forma ed esaurisce precocemente energie psico-fisiche ed endocrine."

thanks!

 

[thehog]

Quote from Ferrari: " drferrari, Italy 10 Jul 2014
Concordo con le considerazioni sul team Sky.
Nibali sembra il più forte , ma non sottovalutare la classe di Contador, anche se bisognerà vedere quanto gli è costato il Delfinato...
Occhio a Valverde, che è un fuoriclasse anche se forse ancora non lo sa."

Google translate sucks, can anyone translate? I think he's saying Nibali looks strongest so far right?

And could someone translate this one too please:

"Come ho descritto nel mio ultimo commento alle corse, il Delfinato è una corsa molto impegnativa nei percorsi e , se corsa "a tutta", anticipa il picco di forma ed esaurisce precocemente energie psico-fisiche ed endocrine."

thanks!

He's actually saying that one who shows too much force too early may suffer later. But he agrees with Sky that Niballi is strong. But don't underestimate the class of Contador. Also Valverde has class but may not know it yet!

(Goes into physiology and endocrine loss in latter stages per Nibali).

 

[webbie146]

He's actually saying that one who shows too much force too early may suffer later. But he agrees with Sky that Niballi is strong. But don't underestimate the class of Contador. Also Valverde has class but may not know it yet!

(Goes into physiology and endocrine loss in latter stages per Nibali).

thanks a lot!

 

[webvan]

Let's remember what happened to Cadel at the Giro too...sure Nibali's a lot younger but the strategy is similar.

 

[MBotero]

Let's remember what happened to Cadel at the Giro too...sure Nibali's a lot younger but the strategy is similar.

Nibali version Giro 2013 don't agree that he should be compared with Cadel

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Let's remember what happened to Cadel at the Giro too...sure Nibali's a lot younger but the strategy is similar.

I watched Froome DNF and remembered Cadel and Tyler Hamilton and Geraint Thomas. er sorry OT.

 

[Captain Serious]

Is this on here yet?
Are they tags on the arm-warmers?

 

[Athame]

(Goes into physiology and endocrine loss in latter stages per Nibali).

and thereby looses?

 

[Afrank]

I thought they got away because Kwia had a mechanical and blocked the road for Canc and Sagan. After that they wouldn't cooperate so didn't catch them.

Correct, Cancellara said "The problem was that there was always a gap because someone was tired, or slipped a bit, and you could not pass him on the cobbles. When the three Astanas and Boom went, this is what happened."

 

[Afrank]

It is also worth noting that it's June, not April, and that Nibali and Fuglsan may very well be in better shape than Cancellara and Sagan who have already peaked once and are probably eyeing the worlds as well

I'd also add that cobbles in the Tour =/= Paris Roubaix. Guys like Cance and Sagan fight for the win the PR, Nibali wouldn't do anything there IMO. After all, last time the Tour had cobbles, skinny climber Schleck finished in the front group.

 

[noddy69]

Is this on here yet?
Are they tags on the arm-warmers?

The cobbles conundrum ...Pull them up and I do a Chris Froome and pole axe myself, leave them fall and I need an excuse ! I like Nibali would take the easier option.

 

[SafeBet]

Quote from Ferrari: " drferrari, Italy 10 Jul 2014
Concordo con le considerazioni sul team Sky.
Nibali sembra il più forte , ma non sottovalutare la classe di Contador, anche se bisognerà vedere quanto gli è costato il Delfinato...
Occhio a Valverde, che è un fuoriclasse anche se forse ancora non lo sa."

Google translate sucks, can anyone translate? I think he's saying Nibali looks strongest so far right?

And could someone translate this one too please:

"Come ho descritto nel mio ultimo commento alle corse, il Delfinato è una corsa molto impegnativa nei percorsi e , se corsa "a tutta", anticipa il picco di forma ed esaurisce precocemente energie psico-fisiche ed endocrine."

thanks!

Full translation.

I agree with what was said about team Sky (?)
Nibali looks like the strongest rider, but don't underestimate Contador, though we need to understand how much energy he spent in the Dauphine.
Keep an eye on Valverde. He's a champion even though he probably hasn't realized it yet.

As I previously wrote, Dayuphine is a very demanding race and, if you ride it full gas, it hastens your peak and consumes your psychophysical and endocrine energy.

 

[pastronef]

More and more hypocrisis

I like Nibali even if he is a doper but i post 30,000 angry posts in Sky threads

this.

but in Nibali's defence, I must say he did not write a shamefull book, and he does not come from a team who keeps on saying clean, clean, clean.
we know astana and him are not clean, just they don't keep on saying they are.

I'll root for Porte anyway and hope he goes nuclear, or Talansky (not so nuclear)

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

Nibali is also a skilled and intelligent bike racer with or without dope, whereas many people consider Froome a purely chemical creation

 

[Benotti69]

I dont care much for Nibali. Doping in whatever form tends to keep me from getting in any way amicable towards a rider.

 

[mrhender]

In comparison Fuglsang looks like a classics rider (EDIT: sprinter) more than a gc-contender. Too much muscles for the real cote's

 

[ChewbaccaD]

No one ever, anywhere, would give Froome credit for tactical nous, because he has none. Zero. And there was never a chance in hell that Froome would finish anywhere near the front yesterday, fractured wrist or no.

I know this is a cliche, but -- do you guys watch cycling?

This...on so many levels.