Vincenzo Nibali

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thehook said:
When Il Dottore speaks. I listen. The man has forgot more about the science behind our sport than most ever will know.

Agreed.

So when he says that Nibali is a genetic freak who can selectively switch to fat stores at the end of the Tour on last climb of the day while ripping the legs off of the competition, I figure someone is on something.

Oops. Did I say "on" something and not "onto"?

I am so envious. Wouldn't it be great if one could press that magic fat store button on an HC climb.

Dave.
 
Sep 2, 2010
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I do find it amusing that when race radio posts something of value that argues with the prevailing narrative that everyone ignores it.
 
whittashau said:
I do find it amusing that when race radio posts something of value that argues with the prevailing narrative that everyone ignores it.

Of course, you might have quoted it... that is the best way to reaffirm a post and make sure people pay attention.

Just saying.

Race Radio said:
Might as well tell this story here.

A while back I was talking to a Italian friend, long time professional rider and now works for a ProTour team. At the time he was still racing. Nibali's name came up and I said it was only a matter of time before he gets caught. My friend was a bit taken aback, said he thought Nibali was clean. He knows Nibali but he is also lifelong friends with Vanotti, Nibali's primary training partner and teammate. He said Vanotti swears Nibali is clean. They had many deep discussions about it, spent hours/weeks/years together and he was convinced.

Dave.
 
Apr 3, 2011
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D-Queued said:
Agreed.

So when he says that Nibali is a genetic freak who can selectively switch to fat stores at the end of the Tour on last climb of the day while ripping the legs off of the competition, I figure someone is on something.

Oops. Did I say "on" something and not "onto"?

I am so envious. Wouldn't it be great if one could press that magic fat store button on an HC climb.

Dave.

maybe some genetic doping + cyborg controls will do (check out how many buttons he has on his radio bar) - or, if it's preprogrammed, it would explain why he HAD TO go on Hautacam, the energy wave came by itself and he could not just ride circles around the climbers, that would look even sillier
 
May 26, 2010
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whittashau said:
I do find it amusing that when race radio posts something of value that argues with the prevailing narrative that everyone ignores it.

yeah i was talking to a friend of a friend who reckon Nibali is a dirty Carbonari (charcoal burner)...............

:rolleyes:
 
Jul 25, 2014
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D-Queued said:
Agreed.

So when he says that Nibali is a genetic freak who can selectively switch to fat stores at the end of the Tour on last climb of the day while ripping the legs off of the competition, I figure someone is on something.

Oops. Did I say "on" something and not "onto"?

I am so envious. Wouldn't it be great if one could press that magic fat store button on an HC climb.

Dave.

Would be great getting rid of my tyre quickly for sure. Enzo comments I take seriously, he is a scientist first and foremost and his figures aren't far off others either.

Never mind he was paying an awful lot of attention to his watt meter when he was pushing it. Almost as if to not go too alien when warp drive was activated even, surely not :cool:
 
Oct 16, 2010
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inspite of the anecdote (which i don't think anybody with a brain will take too seriously), Race Radio himself seems to think Nibali is a doper
Race Radio @TheRaceRadio · Jul 24

.@mikekruger My gut would say that a significant portion of the peloton is clean but I am not sure about Nibali and a few others
 
May 26, 2009
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sniper said:
inspite of the anecdote (which i don't think anybody with a brain will take too seriously), Race Radio himself seems to think Nibali is a doper

Why hasn't he named the other names he isn't sure about?
 
Sep 29, 2012
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BYOP88 said:
Why hasn't he named the other names he isn't sure about?

You're not going to get more attention if you just tell people stuff outright. Far better to leave questions hanging in the air so people have to ask you what / who / etc you meant.
 
Jul 26, 2009
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D-Queued said:
[...]
So when he says that Nibali is a genetic freak who can selectively switch to fat stores at the end of the Tour on last climb of the day while ripping the legs off of the competition, I figure someone is on something.

Oops. Did I say "on" something and not "onto"?

I am so envious. Wouldn't it be great if one could press that magic fat store button on an HC climb.

Dave.

Though no fan of Michele Ferrari, I think you're doing him a bit of disservice here.

In the linked article MF (apt initials, eh?) refers to the *total* caloric expenditure over the entire stage to make the point that because he burned fat earlier in the stage, he started the last climb with high-levels of CHO, allowing him to do a maximal aerobic effort.

He states that 800g of CHO (approximately 3200 Kcal worth) is in excess of glycogen stores.
The following article puts an order of magnitude on glycogen stores as 500g in muscle and 100g in the liver, so MF's argument seems reasonable to this point: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3248697/

This results in the conclusion that he must have burned a significant amount of calories from another source (i.e., fat) in order to meet his caloric balance.

Note that MF leaves out another factor, which is the amount of food that Nibali ingested during the stage. I've seen varying amounts for amount of food consumed/consumable per hour, up to 100g CHO per hour (see, for example: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/race-fueling-how-many-calories-should-i-eat) - this would more than make up for the deficit, too.

So Vincenzo's total energy expenditures might come from the following:
- metabolized glycogen from stores
- digested carbohydrates from food consumed during stage
- fat burned from fat stores
- protein burned by metabolizing muscle (which will happen especially when CHO stores are low)

MF's point that increasing fat burned during earlier parts of the stage would result in his
saving the CHO for the final stage, where he made the difference over the rivals.
seems valid, though I don't think (given my point on ingested carbohydrates) that there's a particularly strong case that VN's fat metabolism stands out.

Note that this also doesn't in any way address whether his performance on the last climb is reasonable or not. It just would mean that he has sufficient CHO reserves to put out a strong effort on the last climb.

I would think the same would apply to any of the front-runners - i.e., I believe they were all able to put out a maximal effort on the last climb, so I don't think MF in any way explains why VN stands out.
 
Rollthedice said:
Speaking of fat:

http://www.bicycling.com/tour-de-france/tour-features/nibalis-weight-loss-battle

and some watts:

Kenny Pryde ‏@Kenny_Pryde Jul 29
Nibali's coach Paolo Slongo "His power on Hautacam was 5.8W/kg, not figures I've read. If it had been 6.1 even I would have been wondering."

corsetti about contador verbier 2009:" he did 6.1 w/kg " lol. anti-doping tests should be erased only so i won't have to read things like those from slongo. get rid of antidoping plz so these guys won't have to lie every second of their life.

and forzza squalo!
 
Jul 21, 2012
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Interesting to read what the good doctor had to say about Nibali

Apparently without ever engaging in a full on effort, he seemed to play with his opponents on the climbs, often expressing powers between 6.00 and 6.3 w/kg (378-397 watts, assuming a weight of 63kg), never showing a decline in performance in the three-week race.

An interesting analysis of the 17th stage, 3h35' for about 124 km, arriving in Pla d 'Adet:

- on the Portillon (590m at 7%) Nibali's group climbed in 22' at 5.94 w/kg
- on the Peyresourde (925m at 7%) he climbed in 40' at 5.13 w/kg
- the Val-Louron Azet (614m at 8.3%) was done by the best riders in 22'50" at 5.77 w/kg
- on the Pla d 'Adet (846m at 8.3%) Nibali climbed in 30'30" - 1664 m/h - 5.94 w/kg

Considering only the KOM climbs, the total climbing was nearly 3000m, done in about 115min.
The average power developed by Nibali on the 4 ascents was 5.63 w/kg = 355 watts (63kg).
An average power of 355W requires an expenditure of 1280 Kcal/h; therefore in those 115min of 4 KOM alone, the caloric request is 2450 Kcal.
Considering the expressed intensities, normally this energy demand could be met only by CHO: it would require about 612g.
If we imagine the rest of the stage, about 1h40', to be done at an average of 220 watts, it required approximately an additional 1400 kcal, of which at least 50% were provided by another 175g of CHO...

Almost 800g of CHO is an amount that far exceeds the maximum capacity of saturation of glycogen stores and therefore confirms the extraordinary ability of Nibali to use fat as fuel, saving the CHO for the final stage, where he made the difference over the rivals.

On the ascent to Hautacam (13.6 km at 7.8%) Vincenzo rode alone "in the wind" for 11 km, climbing in 37'30", VAM = 1696 m/h = 6.28 w/kg = 395w.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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jens_attacks said:
anti-doping tests should be erased only so i won't have to read things like those from slongo. get rid of antidoping plz so these guys won't have to lie every second of their life.
you got a point there i'm afraid.
edit: you should talk to tinkoff about this. i'm sure he'll be all ears :)
 
Froomes Arms @FroomesArms · 7 ago

Danielson hardly even breathing.




Flaco @JonetHernandez · 7 ago

Tommy Danielson just make the rest of the peloton look like a bunch amateur rider that can't ride for ****. How could this guy be that good?





just like Vincenzo ;)
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Eshnar said:
It's a shame, it was a very interesting paper up until here...

17 year old French rider done for banned substance seems to invalidate the assumption that French + new generation == clean.

It was a lame product he got done for, but still an ADRV.
 
Jul 9, 2009
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Dear Wiggo said:
17 year old French rider done for banned substance seems to invalidate the assumption that French + new generation == clean.

It was a lame product he got done for, but still an ADRV.

I don't think it means anything either way. There are always going to be dopers. One single case means nothing.