Vincenzo Nibali

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re: Re:

I believe 95% he's clean. there are very few riders I could 100% tell you, but nibali is up there with the most trustworthy cyclists imo.

also liquigas wasn't a dirty team at all back around 2010. astana I'm sure is clean save some exceptions like aru, who may even work with ferrari.

May I ask: what on earth makes you sure that Astana is clean?

There's flying under the radar and there's not giving a sh*t at all about appearances. I put Astana firmly in the latter category, and kudos for that. But I don't know how it would even be possible to think of them as clean as some kind of philosophical thought experiment.

there is definitely no systematic doping at astana. same with sky. still waiting for guys to get caught on sky as well after 7 years...

now I wouldn't trust vino per se and especially not ferrari and aru. however even if aru is on the juice he's the only one in that team save perhaps for some individuals like the kazach riders getting desperate (iglinsky). I don't see anything suspicious at all in their riders except aru.

last year people were crying about landa. he will show at sky he's just as good, he was already great at trentino and was a really big talent in u23

now I do agree astana are the least to trust but I'm 100% sure there is nowhere in world tour any systematic team doping going on. so save, for some individuals they aren't doping. the systematic team doping has gone since 2006 no doubt.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Liquigas ... Di Luca winning the Giro ... Pellizotti finally getting the recovery of a top tier gt rider ... Basso realizing his second spring ... clean ... yeah!

you have to be blind not to see how much worse basso was there compared to before his suspension

Well, he was pretty mediocre apart from that one Giro after his suspension

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re: Re:

Liquigas ... Di Luca winning the Giro ... Pellizotti finally getting the recovery of a top tier gt rider ... Basso realizing his second spring ... clean ... yeah!

you have to be blind not to see how much worse basso was there compared to before his suspension

Well, he was pretty mediocre apart from that one Giro after his suspension

basso was also mediocre in that giro he won. he was nowhere the best and nibali who didn't even focus on the giro had to drag him a lot. not to mention the competition was nothing compared to 2011 for instance with contador and rujano. not saying basso didn't dope in 2010, but it definitely wasn't team doping the likes of what he had at csc in 2005/2006

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

also it wouldn't surprise me the heat is on aru and astana too much he isn't doping anymore. so far his season has been pretty bad. we will see in the tour.

 

[sniper]

Is there any source for the claim that mastromarco team had a 100% clean reputation?
I mean what is/was that reputation built on?

 

[hrotha]

People shortly after the introduction of the passport not literally as strong as under one of the heaviest doping programs ever exposed? Now that's a shocker.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re:

People shortly after the introduction of the passport not literally as strong as under one of the heaviest doping programs ever exposed? Now that's a shocker.

if that was the case then all riders should've dropped in performance significantly. wasn't the case at all. it was the case with basso though, with nibali the opposite for instance

 

[hrotha]

First of all, what are you comparing exactly? Relative dominance/pecking order, or actual performances?
Secondly, most people weren't coming off from one of the heaviest doping programs ever exposed. 2006 Basso was also much stronger than 2004 Basso, for example. Ridiculously so.
Thirdly, not racing for 2 years takes its toll, and Basso only returned for the 2009 season and won that Giro at ~33, which is old for many riders.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re:

First of all, what are you comparing exactly? Relative dominance/pecking order, or actual performances?
Secondly, most people weren't coming off from one of the heaviest doping programs ever exposed. 2006 Basso was also much stronger than 2004 Basso, for example. Ridiculously so.
Thirdly, not racing for 2 years takes its toll, and Basso only returned for the 2009 season and won that Giro at ~33, which is old for many riders.

not old at all in the past 10 years. and not racing for 2 years takes it toll? valverde? vino? were even older upon returning.

I mean actual performance, which was much lower, but also compared to others it was lower. someone like scarponi involved in 2006, came back at higher level and was similar age of basso.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

First of all, what are you comparing exactly? Relative dominance/pecking order, or actual performances?
Secondly, most people weren't coming off from one of the heaviest doping programs ever exposed. 2006 Basso was also much stronger than 2004 Basso, for example. Ridiculously so.
Thirdly, not racing for 2 years takes its toll, and Basso only returned for the 2009 season and won that Giro at ~33, which is old for many riders.

not old at all in the past 10 years. and not racing for 2 years takes it toll? valverde? vino? were even older upon returning.

I mean actual performance, which was much lower, but also compared to others it was lower. someone like scarponi involved in 2006, came back at higher level and was similar age of basso.

Scarponi, Basso and Piti never got caught doping. They were named as part of Puerto and Piti was proven to be part of it after lying for years.

 

[The Hegelian]

Re: Re:

I believe 95% he's clean. there are very few riders I could 100% tell you, but nibali is up there with the most trustworthy cyclists imo.

also liquigas wasn't a dirty team at all back around 2010. astana I'm sure is clean save some exceptions like aru, who may even work with ferrari.

May I ask: what on earth makes you sure that Astana is clean?

There's flying under the radar and there's not giving a sh*t at all about appearances. I put Astana firmly in the latter category, and kudos for that. But I don't know how it would even be possible to think of them as clean as some kind of philosophical thought experiment.

there is definitely no systematic doping at astana. same with sky. still waiting for guys to get caught on sky as well after 7 years...

now I wouldn't trust vino per se and especially not ferrari and aru. however even if aru is on the juice he's the only one in that team save perhaps for some individuals like the kazach riders getting desperate (iglinsky). I don't see anything suspicious at all in their riders except aru.

last year people were crying about landa. he will show at sky he's just as good, he was already great at trentino and was a really big talent in u23

now I do agree astana are the least to trust but I'm 100% sure there is nowhere in world tour any systematic team doping going on. so save, for some individuals they aren't doping. the systematic team doping has gone since 2006 no doubt.

Refreshing take on things Ryo, that's for sure.

It's nice to know that at least someone can watch pro-cycling in this way.

I'm happy to grant you Landa. The rest of Astana in the Giro '15: my god, that was basically USP or Gewiss. And indeed, the connections with that happy team have never been that far away, have they - what with Bruyneel at the helm (well after '06) and Armstrong's great comeback....

I don't know how you can think it, but it's cool that you can....

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

nearly everyone does the same. there's a reason the clinic is slowly bleeding to death because cycling has become very clean and people have moved on

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Re:

nearly everyone does the same. there's a reason the clinic is slowly bleeding to death because cycling has become very clean and people have moved on

Hi Ryo!
Give me a BB quick!

 

[sniper]

Re:

cycling has become very clean and people have moved on

 

[pastronef]

Re:

nearly everyone does the same. there's a reason the clinic is slowly bleeding to death because cycling has become very clean and people have moved on

nah, just wait for July. can´t guarantee it will be useful, but it´ll be entertaining for sure.

and next there are the Olympics and Wiggo´s dash for a last gold medal. the vitriol will flow

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

nearly everyone does the same. there's a reason the clinic is slowly bleeding to death because cycling has become very clean and people have moved on

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[blackcat]

This is fascinating, by the way. Straight out of Vino's playbook. Remember when he got nicked for a blood tranny at the Tour? Same deal there. From weak to dominate in one day. It's in your face.


Sponsorship issues don't exist I suppose. The guy has free reign. Do unto the sport as you see fit.

The balls.

blood tranny at the Tour

sounds less like a Lance date with Ferrari than Lance having a threesome with April Macy and Caster Semenya

ball
singular
unilateral
orchiectomy

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

nearly everyone does the same. there's a reason the clinic is slowly bleeding to death because cycling has become very clean and people have moved on

nah, just wait for July. can´t guarantee it will be useful, but it´ll be entertaining for sure.

and next there are the Olympics and Wiggo´s dash for a last gold medal. the vitriol will flow

did Sutton and Brailsford kibosh Cav's 4th position in the TP?

So he has to earn his place in the squad thru omnium qualification at the World Cups, then he has to Win the omnium. He will need to bribe his competitors to win.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Going for testing was cover for all the needles marks in his body

I'm wondering, was he trying to win the Giro clean'ish and the doctor visit was plan-b or was that the plan from the start (a visit to the doc as cover for a blood tranny)?

It's interesting. I think part of Vino's success as an athlete hinged on his ability to creatively defeat tests, stymie investigations and stonewall snooping journalists. Armstrong had this too. He can't possibly play this card again though, right?

Back to Nibs. Did he think he could win clean before someone talked some sense into him? Hubris?

just a bit of microdosed epo before, and not much intra tour.

I dont think he was deluded enough to think he was gonna win. He musta prepared with the packed cells.

Remember, how did Thomas Dekker's comeback go? Who was the runner MAry Decker and standing on the Zimbabwean or British runner Budd?

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Seeing his Nibs and the rest of Astana dominate like that was just embarrassing. Bouncing back like that after the disastrous start was not a miracle. Nibs was barely breathing as some old bloke smashed the field to bits on his behalf.

Come On!!! I don't mind the general idea that everyone is juicing, but you have to come up with a cogent hypothesis (at least) as to why one rider can "super juice".

Nibali was just a class above and got his blood refill. Simple.

There are a few riders still ahead of the field.
Froome, Nibali, Contador

second rank
LRP, Purito Rodriguez, G Thomas.

third rank way behind

fourth rank
rohan dennis

 

[TourOfSardinia]

It's kind of heartening that Vincenzo still
goes through the process of building his form over months
in this new era when some simply cruise through the whole year on form
and other seem to be able to switch it on just when they need it.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

Re:

It's kind of heartening that Vincenzo still
goes through the process of building his form over months
in this new era when some simply cruise through the whole year on form
and other seem to be able to switch it on just when they need it.

Like in the last two mountain stages of the Giro

 

[ontheroad]

Vincenzo must have had one of his refills yesterday, looked a new rider today.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Rest days do wonders, eh.

 

[Netserk]

Vai Campionissimo! _O_