Vincenzo Nibali

[hiero2]

+1 Dead fu*king on!

In spite of the abysmal language, yeah, man! Dead funking on!

I like Talansky's comment about he will remember this forevah. It was a great funking stage. Hinault hated cobbles, but el numero uno forever sez:

"It was an incredible, an amazing day, with all the cobbles and the rain. It's a pity what happen to Chris Froome but that's life," he said of the incredible day of racing.

"It was unbelievable what Nibali did today on the cobblestones. He was very good."

Nibali leads his big-name overall Tour de France rivals by close to two minutes. Merckx knows what is needed to win the Tour de France but he also knows that the yellow jersey is only won when the Tour de France ends in Paris.

"It's too early to say if he's going to win the Tour de France, it's too early for that. But what he did was very impressive. It's going to be a great Tour de France now."

Marvelous stage. 150% of what I was hoping for. Minus -75% fewer accidents than I expected - the guys were very cautious and respectful. They rode a GOOD "Classics" day in the rain. Absolutely MARVELOUS!

And, given the carnage that we had, SO glad they cancelled the worst 2 of the pave sections!

 

[the delgados]

I'm not the brightest log on the yuletide fire, so I apologize in advance for what may be a stupid question.
That said, how the hell did the Astana's --Nibali included-- ride away from one of the best classic riders of all time? I mean, it's not like Fabian was trying to conserve energy--the Schleck guys are done. He had nothing to lose by bridging the gap created by the Astana's. In fact, he was Trek's best chance for glory in le Tour.

 

[42x16ss]

I'm not the brightest log on the yuletide fire, so I apologize in advance for what may be a stupid question.
That said, how the hell did the Astana's --Nibali included-- ride away from one of the best classic riders of all time? I mean, it's not like Fabian was trying to conserve energy--the Schleck guys are done. He had nothing to lose by bridging the gap created by the Astana's. In fact, he was Trek's best chance for glory in le Tour.

Cance and Sagan were sick of doing ALL the work in their group and sat up a bit. It was a "live to fight another day" reaction from those two.

 

[purcell]

I'm not the brightest log on the yuletide fire, so I apologize in advance for what may be a stupid question.
That said, how the hell did the Astana's --Nibali included-- ride away from one of the best classic riders of all time? I mean, it's not like Fabian was trying to conserve energy--the Schleck guys are done. He had nothing to lose by bridging the gap created by the Astana's. In fact, he was Trek's best chance for glory in le Tour.

Well,

I think it is a very long stretch to call Cancellera "one of the best classics riders of all time", but .... Cancellera was riding alone, Nibali wasn't. And, Cancellera is not getting younger and has been showing it.

 

[thehog]

Well,

I think it is a very long stretch to call Cancellera "one of the best classics riders of all time", but .... Cancellera was riding alone, Nibali wasn't. And, Cancellera is not getting younger and has been showing it.

Cancellera crashed once. Nibali didn't. Nibs had Westra in the break who rested most of the distance and then slowed to join the Nibali/Canellera group and cained it for the last 30km. Without Westra Nibs would't have got away.

That was a huge difference.

 

[Kretch]

Cancellera crashed once. Nibali didn't. Nibs had Westra in the break who rested most of the distance and then slowed to join the Nibali/Canellera group and cained it for the last 30km. Without Westra Nibs would't have got away.

That was a huge difference.

Spot on. Westra has been strong this year. I wonder if Scarponi's gonna do a bag

 

[hiero2]

I'm not the brightest log on the yuletide fire, so I apologize in advance for what may be a stupid question.
That said, how the hell did the Astana's --Nibali included-- ride away from one of the best classic riders of all time? I mean, it's not like Fabian was trying to conserve energy--the Schleck guys are done. He had nothing to lose by bridging the gap created by the Astana's. In fact, he was Trek's best chance for glory in le Tour.

I will try to address this directly and briefly. It is answered, in bits and pieces, in earlier posts in the thread, but let me see if I can help. The cobble classics are about far more than strength, or climbing ability. If you take the strength of Cancellara, and match that to the bike handling skill of Danny McAskill, you still only have a 50/50 chance of the top five - at best. You have to manage to get the right position entering cobbled sections. You must have luck in not having a mechanical. One flat - and you are gone, gone, gone. Your equipment must be right. Your skills must be top-notch. Your strength must be excellent (but you don't need to be Canc or Kittel). Your tactical senses must be excellent. And your luck must be good. There are 198 other riders who are also aiming for the same 2 road positions you are aiming for. You have to manage to beat them all.

On the cobbles, an experienced man can gain time on inexperienced rivals. Thus, a break with one or two minutes, with 5 sections of pave to go, is not much danger. Unless that break contains experienced cobbles men. On the other hand, once you are on that 4th section, if you are good, you stand a good chance of GAINING time on even your BEST rivals. Only in the front is the road clear. Once you are behind, every rider in front of you can cause delays, even if only a second or two - it always hurts your time. Cooperation and drafting are important, but play a lesser role than on clear roads.

ESPECIALLY in the rain. When it is dry, the riders will go off the cobbles, and ride in the dirt, where it is smoother. When it is dry, you often have two, or three lines you can take through the cobble sections. When it is wet, you may have only one. Just one. Single file.

Think of the break between top riders you are used to seeing in MTB. Now think crossing MTB and road racing.

There is a better documentary film, but I could not find it. However, this may give you a taste of what it is like:

Paris-Roubaix 1988

And remember, THIS day was in the rain. The cobbles and road were slicker than snot. These guys were ice-skating on corners. Knowledge of the corners counted, big-time.

Nibali was fortunate and his team worked hard. He did not need magic or a sack of dope to do what they did today. However, the energy they used today will cost them in future stages. IF we see further such outstanding performances in the mountains - feel free to let your radar sense roam.

This is not the vid I was looking for, but it shows P-R 2001, Aus coverage, P-R in the rain.

 

[thehog]

Spot on. Westra has been strong this year. I wonder if Scarponi's gonna do a bag

And Lars Boom rode away from Nibali and Fuslang. Westra was a beast at Rabobank. Astana have the best team in the Tour by a long way. Maybe not the big cols but let's see.

 

[MarkvW]

Astana: Vinokourov's team.

 

[ralphbert]

Astana: Vinokourov's team.

Exactly. When you ride for Vino you have two choices, do what's required to ride well or.......Ok, you only have one choice when you ride for Vino.

 

[The Hegelian]

Maybe it is justified by all the unusual conditions et al - but that moment when it was three Astana guys + Boom just riding away from Sagan, Canc etc - it looked so much like Gewiss at FW '94.

I'm not sure I really care either way, but when that happened, it was pretty hard not to make that association......it's so rare that when a race is really on, multiple riders from one team dominate.

 

[pastronef]

Jens Hagström @jenscer
Just when you find yourself liking Vincezo Nibali again, you remember what an appalling piece of **** team he rides for.

 

[ralphbert]

You got have respect for Nibs after today. Beyond whatever "engine modulation" he has been doing, the skill and panache he has in riding the bike is praiseworthy.

 

[The Hegelian]

You got have respect for Nibs after today. Beyond whatever "engine modulation" he has been doing, the skill and panache he has in riding the bike is praiseworthy.

No doubt about that at all. Panache and sheer class.

 

[hrotha]

It is worth noting that Cancellara had never raced on wet Paris-Roubaix cobbles before.

 

[sniper]

And Lars Boom rode away from Nibali and Fuslang. Westra was a beast at Rabobank. Astana have the best team in the Tour by a long way. Maybe not the big cols but let's see.

i say we keep this one.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

It is worth noting that Cancellara had never raced on wet Paris-Roubaix cobbles before.

It is also worth noting that it's June, not April, and that Nibali and Fuglsan may very well be in better shape than Cancellara and Sagan who have already peaked once and are probably eyeing the worlds as well

 

[Netserk]

I thought they got away because Kwia had a mechanical and blocked the road for Canc and Sagan. After that they wouldn't cooperate so didn't catch them.

 

[CycloAndy]

I dont see anyone saying Nibali is cleans though.

I think a few are alluding to that but even the one's not are saying that this doesn't indicate doping, when if it was Froome then everyone would be saying it definitely was.

I am largely in agreement with the clinic consensus on Froome but it doesnt mean the different standards used for team sky and other teams, purely when judging things by performances is astounding.

 

[hiero2]

It is worth noting that Cancellara had never raced on wet Paris-Roubaix cobbles before.

Worth noting, and worth repeating. +1

 

[sniper]

The hypocrisy on here is unreal. So many times I've seen people defend their sky bashing (which admittedly at times is justified) by saying 'but we know the other riders are doping we just don't go on about it because of the Sky trolls'. Then we witness an unbelievable performance where Nibali and his team rode away from so many classics specialists with ease and half the people say 'doesn't mean he's doping'! Today's performance might have been partly due to his big 'sack' but also a sack load of drugs!!

with guys like kittle and nibbs, the question isn't whether these guys are doping. (there can't be much doubt)
the question is whether their current performances are or arent reliable indicators to that extent.

 

[sniper]

I think a few are alluding to that but even the one's not are saying that this doesn't indicate doping, when if it was Froome then everyone would be saying it definitely was.

I am largely in agreement with the clinic consensus on Froome but it doesnt mean the different standards used for team sky and other teams, purely when judging things by performances is astounding.

sky are yelling "clean(s)(ER)!" off the rooftops.
sky are getting obvious protection/help from uci.
sky are winning two tdfs in a row with two different riders.
sky have bots in here miraculously claiming they're doing it cleans.
sky have a guy like walsh covering their *** in print.

those feats do not apply to nibbs and astana.
i think it's only fair that sky get more scrutiny.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

It wasn't just Nibali who went full *** yesterday, plenty other team mates dipped into the same cookie jar.

It was a big gamble and it paid off, that is for Astana.

 

[The Hitch]

with guys like kittle and nibbs, the question isn't whether these guys are doping. (there can't be much doubt)
the question is whether their current performances are or arent reliable indicators to that extent.

Kittel and Nibali in the same boat? I wouldnt put my hand in the fire for kittel and I think he is a hypocrite, but there is far more evidence against Nibali.

 

[Winterfold]

Doping does not provide skillz and tactical nous - which is what we saw yesterday and why people will always prefer Nibali to Froome even if both are doping equally