Vingegaard vs Pogačar - The Duel

[Boehmand]

And there's a quite difference between absolute monarchies/one-party governments which build world-class infrastructure for their citizens in cities with very low crime rates than countries with two or more party governments where crime and corruption are high and infrastructure is abysmal and they can only be called developed countries because they have stolen trillions worth of resources from Africa and Asia.

Are you actually advocating dictatorships?

 

[Valv.Piti]

I follow cycling since the 98, and this is probably the mightiest duel I've seen.
Other contenders would be (with pros and cons) :

	Pros	Cons
Armstrong vs Ulrich 2003	Field scene ITT and Tourmalet Could Armstrong lose ? Bianchi I loved Jan and disliked Armstrong because he was always winning (I am french therefore I must only like losers)	Ulrich sick in the Alps Beloki :'( (god damn Luz Ardiden, how can you be so strong all of a sudden ?) Rain and fall
Contador vs Schleck 2010	Contador attacking style Andy youth and strength (also new contender approaching, and loser from last year therefore I rooted for him)	Stop waiting your brother for the love of god Chain controversy Schelck TT being horrendous
Froome vs Quintana 2015	Moviestar tactics Can someone beat sky please ?	Movistar tactics Having to watch Froome climbing style Sky train Duel felt doomed
Roglic vs Pogacar 2020	Many sprints on top of climbs where Roglic was beatable for once This kid is something else Jumbo' faces on the ITT	Was not a duel at first because we were "sure" Roglic would win. Sad for my boy Roglic
Pogacar vs Vingegaard 2022	Pog taking everything first week Cobbles war Granon masterclass from Jumbo (almost first time a 1-2 is correctly done) Pogacar attacking EVERY single climb (even going in the breakaway on a flat stage when Sagan challenged him to) Lots of punchy attacks to watch Seing G crawling back after all of those attacks	Vingegaard is OP (Hautacam) I supported Pog (I now consider myself citizen of the world therefore I can support winners)
Vingegaard vs Pogacar 2023	Pog directly in white so I don't have to see that UAE National champ jersey. Pog IS stronger than ever Vingegaard feels stronger than in 2022 Every stage is raced as we dreamt of. (who would have bet money on Vingegaard attacking on Tourmalet, seriously) Pog coming for revenge Vingegaard not looking afraid in ITW I am told there are still 12 stages ?	They make other pros look like amateurs.

Might be pure nostalgia, but I liked 2003 the best I think. Not only because of that duel, but you also had Vino to spice it up, Mayo, and Beloki was a realy contender that year Im absolutely certain. So it was more than a 2-man game. Good list btw!

In hindsight, I think Contador-Schleck was pretty meh. Quintana-Froome the same honestly. Roglic-Pog was also not THAT interesting. I love Pog-Vingegaard, but 2003 takes it on small margins!

 

[Rackham]

Might be pure nostalgia, but I liked 2003 the best I think. Not only because of that duel, but you also had Vino to spice it up, Mayo, and Beloki was a realy contender that year Im absolutely certain. So it was more than a 2-man game. Good list btw!

In hindsight, I think Contador-Schleck was pretty meh. Quintana-Froome the same honestly. Roglic-Pog was also not THAT interesting. I love Pog-Vingegaard, but 2003 takes it on small margins!

2003 was a very unique year & the Tour was the most memorable of its era. The heatwave in particular that summer was something else (i.e. suffocatingly hot in France from May until late September). Armstrong also didn't like the heat much & that ITT at Gaillac was the first time we'd ever seen L.A. get properly smashed during his dominant years.

By comparison 2004 was so, so disappointing (Ullrich just didn't know how to remain consistently in top shape throughout his career). 2005 was even worse & then 2006 had the best ending ever (at least from my perspective, i.e. the "breaking news" 3 days after the finish was the stuff of legends).

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

To highlight how rare repeats of the same top-2 are: there is nobody who Raymond Poulidor, the eternal second place to end all eternal second places, finished second to in the Tour GC on multiple occasions.

You are right, if I just knew this as a boy, my childhood idol had been PouPou and not Zoetemelk

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Zoetemelk finished second six times in the Tour, but he did win one time though and had one win the Vuelta. Poulidor also won one Vuelta.

Poulidor finished second three times in the Tour and five times third!

I guess why people refer to Poulidor as the eternal second... is because he was just a few years ahead of Zoetemelk, even though Zoetemelk has his own argument as well for the title.

Maybe because Poulidor was also French and in the shadow of Anquetil, even though Poulidor was probably more liked by fans. He became endearing to a lot of people. They rooted for him.

You are bulls eye on your perspective, Sir!

 

[Peter von]

Stating facts that might not want to be heard does not make one racist.

tbh this defence is one of the most used defenses for spewing racism, not sure your helping yourself here mate.


anyway. Pogi vs Vingegaard is a great duel, I have hard 2003 nostalgia as well, but the great thing here is that Pogi has beaten Vinge before and Vinge has beaten Pogi before. For all we know they could take turns winning the next 8 years (Might be getting ahead of myself here).

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Vingegaard has conducted a very smart race thus far. He realizes pointlessness of competing in sheer explosiveness against Pogacar, as the only rider able to contest Pogacar's explosiveness is Philipsen and it's merely about pancake flat stages accelerations. Let's see what the Alpine stages bring.

You mean Philipsen Alpacining the Alps, beating Pogi?

(I read it as "Let's se what the Alpacine stages bring" )

 

[Lorzenz08]

As much as I love Pog's racing approach I simply can't root for anyone riding for the sportswashing team, so I hope Vingo will manage to win this TdF.

Pogi team is not a sportswashing team. Even though I understand where you coming from, you don't like the country's practices. But by the strict definition of the term, the UAE is not trying to improve their reputation through this cycling team. They're doing it for financial reasons, they have much of their revenues coming from oil. And they want to diversify their revenues, so they're investing a little bit everywhere : companies, sport teams, tourism....

 

[CyclistAbi]

Guys you are doing it wrong. Look for some cues:

Remco vs Roglic

Apparently, this has become a hot topic. It deserves its own thread. Today, the thread will have its grand opening when we will ceremoniously dump a million gallons of liquid shiit into it.

forum.cyclingnews.com

 

[Netserk]

Stating facts that might not want to be heard does not make one racist.

Agreed. I too don’t think The Bell Curve was racist. Human biological diversity is a factual matter.

 

[Cookster15]

My favorites were 1998 Ullrich vs Pantani and 2003, the only year in his 7 year "reign" that Lance was put under serious pressure. Stage 15 of the 98 TdF remains the greatest stage of racing I've ever watched because quiet spoken little climbers are not supposed to destroy time trialing machines like that. Thanks to Marco, I almost forget the other stuff which happened in 98.

But I don't think I have ever liked or disliked a team or rider because of who their sponsor was, they provide funds so that we can enjoy the racing. We live in an imperfect world and sponsors like this are unavoidable. Anyway, Jumbo are definitely the new Sky so I am fine that another team has a rider who can rival them.

 

[proffate]

Anyway, Jumbo are definitely the new Sky

I'll take JV over Sky any day, mainly because of the crazy tactics they're able to pull off with Wout (although Pogacar is indeed the only reason why that's necessary). Vingegaard also looks the part of the Bond villain which makes him an excellent foil to the boyish hero.

 

[Red Rick]

Quality thread boys and girls

Don't keep it up

 

[Gratemans]

I'll take JV over Sky any day, mainly because of the crazy tactics they're able to pull off with Wout (although Pogacar is indeed the only reason why that's necessary). Vingegaard also looks the part of the Bond villain which makes him an excellent foil to the boyish hero.

You should watch him in Hannibal. That show was insanely good.
He played more of a Merckx type there though.

 

[Extinction]

Pogi team is not a sportswashing team. Even though I understand where you coming from, you don't like the country's practices. But by the strict definition of the term, the UAE is not trying to improve their reputation through this cycling team. They're doing it for financial reasons, they have much of their revenues coming from oil. And they want to diversify their revenues, so they're investing a little bit everywhere : companies, sport teams, tourism....

The objectives aren't mutually exclusive, however.

 

[Rob5091]

I agree with YavorD, how do they push Pogacar without pushing Vingegaard even more? They have no one to attack him with bar Vingegaar himself, and he surely won't want to try to go for all out war on hilly terrain against Pogacar of all people.

Looking at Jumbo's team - they've WvA, van Baarle, Benoot, van Hooydonck and Laporte - not a bad classics team and the idea is to wear down UAE before the mountains.

 

[Gigs_98]

Far and beyond both the most equally matched duel and the most dominant in terms of how much better they are than everyone else. Can't believe it's still so incredibly close

 

[gunara]

Can't believe it's still so incredibly close

Seem even closer by the day to be honest, they just stopped distancing each other now!😁

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Be interesting how this race would have panned out if Vingo had done a spring campaign similar to Pog.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Now it's almost official: the first pair of riders to finish in top2 of the Tour for 3 consecutive years. And it's not over yet, more history ahead methinks.

 

[Rob5091]

Interesting article on Vingegaard's & Pogacar's pre-Tour training -
https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...aard-lift-the-lid-on-tour-de-france-training/

"The head coaches of Jumbo-Visma and UAE Emirates separately lifted the lid this week on the fundamental strengths and weaknesses of Jonas Vingegaard and Tadej Pogacar's pre-Tour training plans.
And the takeaways were as obvious as they were old school.
Consistency, base miles, and accumulated load are the foundation of any aspiring maillot jaune."

 

[Taxus4a]

I has been a great Tour by both of them.

Poggi is an explosive rider, very good for almost all kind os stages, but is possible to make him pain at hard stages with long climbs. Vingegard is better there.

Pogacar came here in a quite good shape and preparation. Maybe not the best, but almost. I think he didnt lost the Tour for that. It d had been more close, but the queen stage Vingegar would have put one minute on him.

IMO Vingegard was already stronger than him last year. He even risk the last ITT to make that clear..he didnt need to. But he has always to show he is better than Poggi at le Tour...but not for clasics. And that is good for cycling.

it is a pity Carapaz and Mas crash at the begining, this way it was a big difference from them with the rest. As well Landa didnt find his best shape for some heath problems from Lieje, becouse it was a good Tour for him to be on the podium and to show some days eeiyth those extra terrestrial on the mountains.

It would be great to see how far can Evenepoel go at le Tour, but he need more ITT...and to see the develop of my country mates Carlos rodriguez and Juan Ayuso. I think Ayuso is quite a mixture of Vingegard and Pogacar, maybe better than this one for le Tour..and he looks phisically to one of the best spanish riders of the History, Ocaña.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

So another chapter is over. First week was sensational and the second week was super tight. Then the TT (absolutely outstanding by Vinge) and Pogacar's collapse afterwards (possible causes: the crash and not good enough prep), which ended the suspence. Next year another battle, I guess.

 

[IndianCyclist]

This is the best top 2 contender TDF battle in a decade

 

[hender-retour]

Somehow I hope Vingo will take more chances with his schedule and Pogi will beat him next year. Then in 2025 we will get the ultimate showdown each being equal at 2-2 and a bunch of Youngsters ready to replace them. I wonder if this insane career yearly peak will be the new normal.