Voeckler doping?

[Colette]

Rasmussen 2007 wasn't that surprising. He already finished 7th in 2005 (with the worst time trial in the history of cycling), in 2007 six of the guys who finished ahead of him were banned or quit cycling. I don't think he was better in 2007 than in 2005, or on any different program (he was doing 'altitude training' in Mexico in 2005 as well).

He was a lot better in 2007 than he was in 2005. In 2005 he used to lose 5-6 minutes on a 50 km TT. In 2007 he did only lose around 1 minute. His time trial before he was on 'a training camp' in Mexico was the primarily reason why Rabobank didn't use Rasmussen as their GC rider.

 

[Hairy Wheels]

It's funny....

...how guys like Moondance get all worked up about Voeckler doing so well all of a sudden. Ok, let's all agree that he's doped. He's either doping for the first time for real, or he's got some really good stuff that's working for him. So what? We know that Contador is doped (busted..). The Schlecks are doped (one of them paid Fuentes). By and large they're all doped up there. So, what gives? Why so uptight about Voeckler?

Having raced in Europe in enough places to know, the French have among the deepest talent pools in cycling. They have enormous opportunities to race, it is socially acceptable to be an athlete for the long term and there is a vast amount of expertise available. Why the hell shouldn't they have guys up there in the Tour? Belgium doesn't have any more riders than France does, they won the stage today. Why is it ok that an Estonian is fighting for the White jersey but it's such a sad and upsetting day for a Frenchman to be fighting for yellow? The Spanish amateur scene is not as full as the French scene and yet they crush every year at the Tour (stages, top GC, wins etc).

Moonpants and others...you need to chill out and not let the entertainment of watching a freaking bike race be taken away because your knickers are all in a nationalist knot. Maybe it's time to go for a bike ride or something. Man....

 

[Colette]

In the 2007 pre-season interview he said that he changed his training approach and was thinking about targeting Tour GC in that year. So for me, it seems that he was on different program (and the whole team) (look how dominant Rabobank mountain domestiques were in that year) and was definitely doing higher amount of "altitude training", or how do you call the transfusions...

And considering the fact that he and Contador rode Plateau faster than Lance himself-I am sure that he was better.

If he was an obvious GC rider that year the peloton wouldn't have given him a gap on 5 minutes in the mountain stage to Tignes. They thought it was just his 'usual' ride for a stage victory and they didn't take him seriously at all because of his TT. Exactly like Voeckler. If Leopard Trek knew he suddenly was one of the greatest climbers in the peloton, they wouldn't have given him the gap on 3 minutes..

 

[webvan]

Ditto, at one point I thought he was about to attack.

But could this be a sign that the sport is getting more clean?

Looks like it

I have probably improved since 2004”, Voeckler pointed out. “This year, I have the best legs of my career, but if I’d had the same legs as today in 2004, I still wouldn’t have been able to follow Armstrong and Basso.”

The main contenders rode two minutes slower than Armstrong did in 2004 and where three minutes slower than the record set by Marco Pantani.

“Since I turned pro in 2001, things are getting better and better in cycling,” Voeckler said, not afraid to speak his mind and hint that he thinks the sport is cleaner.

“In the past few years, I’ve learned not to pay attention to what the other riders are doing but I do think the people who run cycling are working in the right direction.”

from http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/voeckler-celebrates-staying-in-yellow-at-plateau-de-beille

 

[Flashheart]

Gods, I'd rather be called gullible than being such a paranoid and negative freak like 90% of the people in this topic. How you can enjoy watching cycling with this mentality is beyond me.

So very sad.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Flasheart

You right here. Those people always complain*. If doping wasn´t existing, mankind should just invent it for them.

* since the french can keep up now, it´s them who are the new kings of dope now. It´s so ridiculous, especially to accuse TV of doping, just b/c they can´t see the obvious: the Fav´s rode extremly defensive. Never saw something like this in 30 years...

 

[D-Queued]

...

I don't know for sure whether he's clean or doped to the gills. ...

.. Now I see the conspiracy clan is out saying he is doped to the gills because he is French. When, the French in the past were at a detriment because they didn't dope.

...

Hey, Chris, nothing like a little poetic license. There was no clan saying he was doped to the gills, just the one open question.

Personally, I think he is doped to the dorsal fin and not doped to the gills at all.

Gods, I'd rather be called gullible than being such a paranoid and negative freak like 90% of the people in this topic. How you can enjoy watching cycling with this mentality is beyond me.

So very sad.

Ok, your choice. You are gullible.

For all those that compared the 2004 stage performance to this one: you need to get out your cadence meter. Voeckler is riding about 2 bpm faster now.

Bottom line, Voeckler is French. He may not go down in an American style blaze of Stage 17 glory while riding like Floyd cannot be certain. But, being French, his Waterloo lays ahead of him.

Dave.

 

[Flashheart]

@ FoxxyB: Exactly, if even Uran and Peraud can keep up what's the big deal with Voeckler keeping up when he's wearing the MJ?

 

[Moondance]

...how guys like Moondance get all worked up about Voeckler doing so well all of a sudden. Ok, let's all agree that he's doped. He's either doping for the first time for real, or he's got some really good stuff that's working for him. So what? We know that Contador is doped (busted..). The Schlecks are doped (one of them paid Fuentes). By and large they're all doped up there. So, what gives? Why so uptight about Voeckler?

Having raced in Europe in enough places to know, the French have among the deepest talent pools in cycling. They have enormous opportunities to race, it is socially acceptable to be an athlete for the long term and there is a vast amount of expertise available. Why the hell shouldn't they have guys up there in the Tour? Belgium doesn't have any more riders than France does, they won the stage today. Why is it ok that an Estonian is fighting for the White jersey but it's such a sad and upsetting day for a Frenchman to be fighting for yellow? The Spanish amateur scene is not as full as the French scene and yet they crush every year at the Tour (stages, top GC, wins etc).

Moonpants and others...you need to chill out and not let the entertainment of watching a freaking bike race be taken away because your knickers are all in a nationalist knot. Maybe it's time to go for a bike ride or something. Man....

My knickers certainly are not in a nationalist knot... In fact I have consistently on this forum, you can go back and check, cheered loudly whenever Voeckler did well. I have a great love of Chouchou, and his morphing into a top puncher, from the rather aimless attacker he once was was very pleasing for me to see. When he came out of nowhere to win in Quebec last year I went completely ballistic with joy, and rather poor choice of language landed me the only ban I've ever received in an online forum. However, turning into a mountain goat on par with Andy Schleck is a step to far. No matter how much I love Chouchou, I cannot believe that this is merit and ability alone. And I could simply not derive any pleasure from it, and believe me, I tried to enjoy myself today.

I had great hope that Voeckler was clean, and after today I can no longer, in good faith, continue to believe that. This is disappointing. And you can make fun of my moniker all you want, but I wont, unfortunately I think, change my mind on this.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

@ Flash

You see. They call you out already, b/c TV rode 1 minute faster than in 2004, on a shorter and "easier" stage today. It´s still ridiculous.

Hope TV makes the podium, that gives the guys good fodder.

 

[Hairy Wheels]

My knickers certainly are not in a nationalist knot... In fact I have consistently on this forum, you can go back and check, cheered loudly whenever Voeckler did well. I have a great love of Chouchou, and his morphing into a top puncher, from the rather aimless attacker he once was was very pleasing for me to see. When he came out of nowhere to win in Quebec last year I went completely ballistic with joy, and rather poor choice of language landed me the only ban I've ever received in an online forum. However, turning into a mountain goat on par with Andy Schleck is a step to far. No matter how much I love Chouchou, I cannot believe that this is merit and ability alone. And I could simply not derive any pleasure from it, and believe me, I tried to enjoy myself today.

I had great hope that Voeckler was clean, and after today I can no longer, in good faith, continue to believe that. This is disappointing. And you can make fun of my moniker all you want, but I wont, unfortunately I think, change my mind on this.

I'll let you go back and read your post to see how really weird you sound.

 

[Berzin]

.... of course it has nothing to do with the other guys looking at each other and riding zick-zack courses. Just wonder when they start to ride backwards, since no one wants to be in front. What a farce today was.

Farce is putting it mildly. Andy Schleck had the nerve, after his team killed themselves setting an infernal pace all the way to the base of the Plateau de Beille, to say that the other contenders didn't help.

How much help does he need before he realizes it's on him to make the race?

And Cadel Evans, true to form, did nothing but follow wheels and put in a blistering attack 500 meters from the line as always.

 

[D-Queued]

Farce is putting it mildly. Andy Schleck had the nerve, after his team killed themselves setting an infernal pace all the way to the base of the Plateau de Beille, to say that the other contenders didn't help.

How much help does he need before he realizes it's on him to make the race?

And Cadel Evans, true to form, following wheels and putting in a blistering attack 500 meters from the line as always.

Well, he could have tried to bridge to the leaders group when they were already across the line.

Dave.

 

[Moondance]

I'll let you go back and read your post to see how really weird you sound.

If I sounded weird I'll trust you on that. I'm not the best judge of that. But I am certainly not motivated by Voeckler hatred. More like disappointment. And if my deep disappointment led me to sound weird.... Well, that's not really my chief concern.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Farce is putting it mildly. Andy Schleck had the nerve, after his team killed themselves setting an infernal pace all the way to the base of the Plateau de Beille, to say that the other contenders didn't help.

How much help does he need before he realizes it's on him to make the race?

And Cadel Evans, true to form, did nothing but follow wheels and put in a blistering attack 500 meters from the line as always.

... yes and the climb wasn´t steep enough... and too short ... and AC didn´t wait ... and, and, and....

This are loosers excuses. He may have the talent, but he lacks guts & heart (which TV has). And may even intelligence, since he should know Evans will destroy him in the ITT.

Well deserved runner up, again.

P.S.: Can´t wait for the Giro 2012 edition. Hopefully w/o any Shrecks.

 

[issoisso]

Funny how people go on and on about Voeckler yet no one seems to care that Basso was 2 minutes slower than he was in 2004

Something else I haven't seen mentioned on this topic: Quite a few steroids weren't legal last year and are this year.

 

[davestoller]

Funny how people go on and on about Voeckler yet no one seems to care that Basso was 2 minutes slower than he was in 2004

Something else I haven't seen mentioned on this topic: Quite a few steroids weren't legal last year and are this year.

Basso complained that he does better when there is a real hard tempo right from the bottom and the group is whittled down to 4-5 riders and THEN he and the Schlecks could attack to distance Evans and the others. I think that is a major factor in why the time is 2 minutes slower. And why the belgian kid who won could get away and Sanchez.

All the stupid attacking and slowing and fanning out across the road I thought was pathetic. It doesnt necessairly correlate to doping, although I will grant you I am sure that is a factor as well. None of the major GC guys have any team support.

If Radioshack was there and Wiggins, guys who are diesels--this race would be very different. One or two of those attacks and then Levi, Horner, Kloden and Wiggins could go to the front and drill it.

 

[The Hitch]

My knickers certainly are not in a nationalist knot... In fact I have consistently on this forum, you can go back and check, cheered loudly whenever Voeckler did well. I have a great love of Chouchou, and his morphing into a top puncher, from the rather aimless attacker he once was was very pleasing for me to see. When he came out of nowhere to win in Quebec last year I went completely ballistic with joy, and rather poor choice of language landed me the only ban I've ever received in an online forum. However, turning into a mountain goat on par with Andy Schleck is a step to far. No matter how much I love Chouchou, I cannot believe that this is merit and ability alone. And I could simply not derive any pleasure from it, and believe me, I tried to enjoy myself today.

I had great hope that Voeckler was clean, and after today I can no longer, in good faith, continue to believe that. This is disappointing. And you can make fun of my moniker all you want, but I wont, unfortunately I think, change my mind on this.

Your an intelligent chap Moondance, so surely your not living under any illusions that many of your favourite riders must be doping too, right?

But you are ok with them. But when Voeckler starts performing you say you feel very sad because the tour is over for you.

Is it because you never had much hope in your other favourite riders but had a lot of hope in Voeckler. a kind of nixon, "if ive lost Voeckler ive lost cycling" attitude?

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Voeckler doping?

Definitely. He took a big injection of HTFU. Unfortunately Leoturd-Drek only brought along enough HTFU for one rider. Instead of giving the whole supply to one of the Shreks, they split the supply between the two of them.

 

[ChrisE]

good reasoning.
but since common sense allows us to discard the second option, the first options remains most plausible.

Why is that? You have zero proof of either theory, except what you saw. And we all saw small time gaps between all the top riders.

 

[ChrisE]

Voeckler's perfomance reminds of Michael Rasmussen's performance in 2007. An average GC rider, who suddenly is untouchable. It wouldn't surprise me if he also goes in top 10 in Grenoble, even though he usually is terrible in time trials..

Roundabout: I was wondering.. Who is the rider on your profile picture?

LOL.

Yeah, Voeckler is untouchable lol. Reminds me exactly how the Chicken was sprinting up mountains with Contador lol.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

My knickers certainly are not in a nationalist knot... In fact I have consistently on this forum, you can go back and check, cheered loudly whenever Voeckler did well. I have a great love of Chouchou, and his morphing into a top puncher, from the rather aimless attacker he once was was very pleasing for me to see. When he came out of nowhere to win in Quebec last year I went completely ballistic with joy, and rather poor choice of language landed me the only ban I've ever received in an online forum. However, turning into a mountain goat on par with Andy Schleck is a step to far. No matter how much I love Chouchou, I cannot believe that this is merit and ability alone. And I could simply not derive any pleasure from it, and believe me, I tried to enjoy myself today.

I had great hope that Voeckler was clean, and after today I can no longer, in good faith, continue to believe that. This is disappointing. And you can make fun of my moniker all you want, but I wont, unfortunately I think, change my mind on this.

What a minute can do for you.... A minute faster on shorter, "easier" stage. That´s what TV did today. So he was actually dope free in 2004, and now risks for a netto gain of let´s say 30 seconds in a 46 minutes climb, everything. TV must be the biggest idiot in the world then...

 

[Anonymous]

Is his jaw bigger than before and we should look at his head.. or are there needle marks on his ***??

 

[Colette]

LOL.

Yeah, Voeckler is untouchable lol. Reminds me exactly how the Chicken was sprinting up mountains with Contador lol.

At least Lance Armstrong agrees with me (on Twitter).. His chances to win the Tour De France are huge. In my opinion Alberto Contador is the only one who can beat him right now, so it all depends of his shape in the two final mountain stages. If he hasn't progressed from today - Voeckler will win the TDF.. No doubt.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

no he just trains harder nowadays and rides with a higher cadence