Vuelta a España 2011

[hfer07]

quite a young team.

what a pity that Sylwester Szmyd won't be at the Vuelta-he's a class apart when the duty is needed in the high mountains...
I agree about the age factor, but they're the future of the team, so is better off to have them started to gain experience, so they can be united for Vincenzo in future races....

 

[The Hitch]

what a pity that Sylwester Szmyd won't be at the Vuelta-he's a class apart when the duty is needed in the high mountains...
I agree about the age factor, but they're the future of the team, so is better off to have them started to gain experience, so they can be united for Vincenzo in future races....

The one thing we dont need is Szmyd dragging Nibali and everyone else up the mountain any time someone tries to attack, the way Kreuziger did at Lagos de Covadonga last year.

 

[icefire]

The one thing we dont need is Szmyd dragging Nibali and everyone else up the mountain any time someone tries to attack, the way Kreuziger did at Lagos de Covadonga last year.

Watching Szmyd last year looking at the 'Xacobeo train' riding up Navacerrada with a face as if saying 'is this all you can give?' was actually hilarious

 

[hfer07]

The one thing we dont need is Szmyd dragging Nibali and everyone else up the mountain any time someone tries to attack, the way Kreuziger did at Lagos de Covadonga last year.

no need to worry- this year we have Fabio Duarte whose ability to attack early is a warranty to disable any phase making set by top domestiques

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Looking forward to see how Nerz does tbh; and Sagan as well in his first GT

 

[Descender]

Watching Szmyd last year looking at the 'Xacobeo train' riding up Navacerrada with a face as if saying 'is this all you can give?' was actually hilarious

That was Kreuziger. And yes it was funny.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Anyone have the rule book? How are the Points/KoM allocated?

Points: 6 4 and 2 at intermediates. 25, 20, 16, 14, 12 and 10 down to 1 for the first 15 finishers on each stage.

KoM - unless they've done some tweaking, which it doesn't look like, then we'll have:

cat.3: 3 2 and 1
cat.2: 5 3 and 1
cat.1: 10, 6, 4 2 and 1
MTFs: 15, 10, 6, 4 and 2.
One "special category climb" (last year Bola del Mundo, this year probably Angliru): 20, 15, 10, 6, 4 and 2.

This is the same as the old Giro system, before they revamped it this year. The Vuelta decided it was giving away too many mountains points after 2009, and so went with the more stingy approach to make it harder for riders to get into the jersey then just collect the available points when the péloton rolled past (they were offering points to 10 riders on cat.1 climbs before iirc). The "Especial" category is a direct clone of the Cima Coppi, only it isn't awarded to the highest point in the race (otherwise it would almost invariably be Sierra Nevada) but to the jury-selected hardest climb in the race.

thx for explaining Libertine.

Horrible story though :s. I'm hoping he can come back on a good level next year

Yea, me too. I've grown to like Rubén Plaza. He's still got the fastest TT in the history of GT racing with his 2005 Vuelta effort with a tailwind - something ridiculous like 57km/h.

Guys, Does anone believe that Denis Menchov has a chance of finishing on the podium, because in spite of his less-than-spectacular season thus far, he seems confident and upbeat? Denis is so low keyed that I have a hard time reading anything into his remarks, ever.

And how about Sastre? He seems to be on life support to me. Could he possibly be revived in time to redeem his season?

If these issues have already been discussed, gently inform me. I'll catch on to the system here in a minute.

Menchov should be considered one of the favourites on paper, but as with last year, the second he isn't on proper form, he'll just let go and haemorrhage time. So at the moment he should be considered among the favourites, but with the understanding that a peak level Menchov could win this race, and possibly even quite comfortably - but anything other than a peak level Menchov could be dreadful.

JVDB not going for GC, most likely:

http://translate.google.com/transla...n/Vuelta/110816_Van_den_Broeck_Vuelta&act=url

Pah, lots of people say they're not going for the GC at the Vuelta when they really are. Worlds training and the like make convenient excuses. Cadel Evans said he was just training for the Worlds in 2009. And yes, it was damn good training for the Worlds considering he won the damn things, but don't tell me he was taking it day by day and wasn't going for the win. Valverde said the same thing in 2008. Yea, like hell.

Wiggo won't win but if he's still got some of his TdF form he should make top 10.

Well, we have no idea what his TdF form was, to be fair. He didn't make it to a single threatening stage. I suspect that a good form Wiggins as per the Dauphiné should make it to the top 10, yes, provided it doesn't rain on Angliru, since I can see that climb a) being the death of him, and b) resulting in a repeat of Millar in 2002, since they both love to throw their bikes about.

Has RS confirmed yet? Brajkovic, Zubeldia, Kloden + Machado, Paulinho, Busche, Oliviera, Irizar, Lequatre (I think this was the projected team)

don't blame Klödi at all. Brajko is a passable GC guy at the Vuelta, but then again he's coming back off a collarbone so may not do himself justice, a bit like Fränk Schleck last year - only Jani has a week less to recover too.

Zubeldia = biggest wasted talent in the last decade

José Rujano, meet XlandaluzeX. XlandaluzeX, meet José Rujano. Try to get along.

How many stages for Sagan?

Stages 3, 6, maybe 13 if Ancares isn't raced too hard, 18 and 19, maybe 20 if they race Urkiola really hard so the sprinters can't make it back in the final 50km, are the ones I can see as ones that Sagan, on paper, could target. But realistically, the break is going to go for at least one of those, Ancares is probably too hard for him and a bunch of those stages are in the final week and therefore probably too much of a strain on his recovery.

The one thing we dont need is Szmyd dragging Nibali and everyone else up the mountain any time someone tries to attack, the way Kreuziger did at Lagos de Covadonga last year.

And of course, Szmyd's already done 2 GTs this season. Never fear though, for we do have Niemiec to fulfil the awesome Polish mountain domestique quotient.

 

[Duartista]

On wasted talents - the first Vuelta stage I ever saw was the Lagos de Covadonga stage 10 years ago, won by the 23 year old Juan Miguel Mercado, who also finished 5th on GC. Then there was Jose Antonio Pecharroman, who emerged in a blaze of glory in 2003. Those two beat Zubeldia and Rujano hands down, IMO.

 

[profff]

On wasted talents - the first Vuelta stage I ever saw was the Lagos de Covadonga stage 10 years ago, won by the 23 year old Juan Miguel Mercado, who also finished 5th on GC. Then there was Jose Antonio Pecharroman, who emerged in a blaze of glory in 2003. Those two beat Zubeldia and Rujano hands down, IMO.

pecharoman and mercaso deal more with the clinic that with wasted talent.

is it true that fabio duarte is in very bad shape?

 

[Duartista]

pecharoman and mercaso deal more with the clinic that with wasted talent.

is it true that fabio duarte is in very bad shape?

WRT to Duarte, I really have no idea. He hasn't raced since the Giro, but he started light training at the end of June and more intense work in the last week of July. He is hoping to ride himself into form in the first week.

Wasted talents will always invite clinic discussion, the two I mentioned included. Let's not go there though!

 

[Wiggins_fan]

Wiggo won't win but if he's still got some of his TdF form he should make top 10.

There's 47 km long ITT though, he should be able to take time there? I think he can podium if he's got form and a considerable amount of luck

 

[Duartista]

Menchov should be considered one of the favourites on paper, but as with last year, the second he isn't on proper form, he'll just let go and haemorrhage time. So at the moment he should be considered among the favourites, but with the understanding that a peak level Menchov could win this race, and possibly even quite comfortably - but anything other than a peak level Menchov could be dreadful.

I agree with the bit about a peak level Menchov winning with a bit to spare. I think he is being a little underrated going into this - if he is on top form, it's difficult to see anyone other than an inspired Anton, or possibly Scarponi, beating him.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Pecharromán's a weird one though. He went from that 2003 to nowhere, but was still a serviceable rider - 2006 he was 2nd in the Vuelta a Burgos, 2007 he was top 10 at the Volta a Portugal (ok, he tested positive shortly afterward). But it's a surprise that nobody really thought about bringing him back.

Speaking of people that you can't fathom why they aren't around, what happened to David Herrero Llorente? His last race was the 2009 Vuelta a España, where he showed good enough recovery to come 2nd in one week 3 stage and finish top 10 in the Toledo ITT (and 4th in the Valencia one too). He picked up consistently decent results for Euskaltel and Xacobeo from 2004 to 2009 (2006 was his breakout year with 2nd in the Euskal Bizikleta and 4th in the Vuelta a Burgos, while only a crash in stage 5 prevented him from being a major factor in the GC of País Vasco in 2008). Not earth-shattering, but you'd think somebody would have room for him when you consider some of the people who still have jobs. If nothing else, he'd be a lot of help to Euskaltel in a TTT.

 

[Parrulo]

There's 47 km long ITT though, he should be able to take time there? I think he can podium if he's got form and a considerable amount of luck

wiggins will drop minutes to the top climbers on the angliru

he can top 10 but has no chance at the podium.

btw dunno if you have ever seen the angliru so . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIr8u0j08gU

that climb is just unforgivable for a guy like wiggins

 

[Duartista]

Pecharromán's a weird one though. He went from that 2003 to nowhere, but was still a serviceable rider - 2006 he was 2nd in the Vuelta a Burgos, 2007 he was top 10 at the Volta a Portugal (ok, he tested positive shortly afterward). But it's a surprise that nobody really thought about bringing him back.

Speaking of people that you can't fathom why they aren't around, what happened to David Herrero Llorente? His last race was the 2009 Vuelta a España, where he showed good enough recovery to come 2nd in one week 3 stage and finish top 10 in the Toledo ITT (and 4th in the Valencia one too). He picked up consistently decent results for Euskaltel and Xacobeo from 2004 to 2009 (2006 was his breakout year with 2nd in the Euskal Bizikleta and 4th in the Vuelta a Burgos, while only a crash in stage 5 prevented him from being a major factor in the GC of País Vasco in 2008). Not earth-shattering, but you'd think somebody would have room for him when you consider some of the people who still have jobs. If nothing else, he'd be a lot of help to Euskaltel in a TTT.

Similarly, Mercado won a Tour stage for Agritubel (was it 2006?) but disappeared after riding for the same team in 2007. He's still only 33.

I don't know anything about Herrero, although I remember the name. It seems to me, though, that these things often depend on a bit of luck. Cobo, for example, was pretty fortunate that Matxin gave him a contract this year after a 2010 season that was just as dismal as Pecharroman's Quickstep years.

Edit: It seems Pecharroman was cleared in that case - http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pecharroman-wins-cas-appeal

You would have thought a team like Andalucia Caja Sur could use him, at least. Maybe he'd just had enough.

 

[therealtimshady]

wiggins will drop minutes to the top climbers on the angliru

he can top 10 but has no chance at the podium.

btw dunno if you have ever seen the angliru so . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIr8u0j08gU

that climb is just unforgivable for a guy like wiggins

Unfortunatey I agree. The climbs are too hard for wiggins to come in the top 5. Hope I'm wrong though

 

[Libertine Seguros]

There's 47 km long ITT though, he should be able to take time there? I think he can podium if he's got form and a considerable amount of luck

He'll need at least 2 of those to offset the time he'll lose on Angliru.

Wiggins could stay in contact on Sierra Nevada (though that might be a bit too early in the race), La Covatilla, and La Manzaneda. I have fears for him on Farrapona, especially coming straight off San Lorenzo, which is steep an very unfriendly to a climber like Wiggins. Angliru? Well, that's just destruction to a tempo climber. Even Leipheimer, who has always been a better climber than Wiggins, lost over a minute there (in one of the best climbing performances of his life, finishing ahead of Sastre and Mosquera). And that time, Angliru was before a couple of other big moutain stages - this year it's one of the last, so the riders will already have San Lorenzo and Farrapona in the legs. Peña Cabarga, though short, also doesn't suit Wiggins at all and I'd expect him to lose maybe 30-45 seconds there.

On top of that, I expect the likes of Antón, Rodríguez and Nibali to be able to take a few seconds out of him on Valdepeñas de Jaén and San Lorenzo de El Escorial - these are most definitely not suited to Wiggins' style.

I think there's far too much scope for places where he will lose time to be balanced by just one ITT, even though it's a long one.

 

[Parrulo]

Unfortunatey I agree. The climbs are too hard for wiggins to come in the top 5. Hope I'm wrong though

the problem for wigging is that on the tour climbs of constant 5, 6 or 7% grades he can pace himself up fairly well. but the angliru gradients keep changing and its just impossible to keep a steady pace. he will suffer big time there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPADmm7ZzKQ&feature=related

^^ this little climb won't do him any good either

p.s. i can stop to say it but the part where purito velits and nibali are going side by side is just amazing and no doubt one of the best footages of the year.

 

[LaFleur]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but team Astana: Kaschechkin, Kessiakoff, Kiserlovski, Gasparotto, Petrov, Dyachenko, Mizurov, Jufre, Kangert

Would expect quite a few suicide attacks from them.

 

[Arnout]

Pecharromán's a weird one though. He went from that 2003 to nowhere, but was still a serviceable rider - 2006 he was 2nd in the Vuelta a Burgos, 2007 he was top 10 at the Volta a Portugal (ok, he tested positive shortly afterward). But it's a surprise that nobody really thought about bringing him back.

Speaking of people that you can't fathom why they aren't around, what happened to David Herrero Llorente? His last race was the 2009 Vuelta a España, where he showed good enough recovery to come 2nd in one week 3 stage and finish top 10 in the Toledo ITT (and 4th in the Valencia one too). He picked up consistently decent results for Euskaltel and Xacobeo from 2004 to 2009 (2006 was his breakout year with 2nd in the Euskal Bizikleta and 4th in the Vuelta a Burgos, while only a crash in stage 5 prevented him from being a major factor in the GC of País Vasco in 2008). Not earth-shattering, but you'd think somebody would have room for him when you consider some of the people who still have jobs. If nothing else, he'd be a lot of help to Euskaltel in a TTT.

Euskaltel released him because there were some frictions (be it salary or doping, I cannot remember).

But sort of the same happened to Tondo of course. He was stuck at Andalucia for a long time, already clearly showing he was more than a local rider.

Feel sad thinking of him

 

[The Hitch]

p.s. i can stop to say it but the part where purito velits and nibali are going side by side is just amazing and no doubt one of the best footages of the year.

Yep.
Just from reading this bit I can figure out what stage climb and footage you are talking about. It was truly something.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Tondó actually only rode one year for Andalucía. He had stepped up with Catalunya-Ángel Mir (his local team pretty much) in 2005, then moved to Relax-GAM in 2006, but struggled all season with illness and injury, wasn't renewed with all the more established riders suddenly available to Relax in 2007 thanks to them all being persona non grata in the ProTour as of mid-2006, and could only get a gig in Portugal, but he did a very good job there, winning the Trofeu Joaquim Agostinho and Volta a Portugal in '07. Andalucía picked him up for 2009.

He's one of the Spanish guys who was riding in Portugal without the stain of Puerto on him - but rather because Puerto's outcasts had pushed him out of a ProConti job in Spain (compare the Relax-GAM squad that Tondó rode with to the 2007 outfit with Sevilla, Mancebo, Santi Pérez, Hruska and Vicioso!). Still, he showed in 2007, 2008 and 2009 that he deserved to be in the big time, and when he finally got a chance he showed that he should have been there all along.

A very sad story. Have you seen that the Catalans have organised a memorial ride for him, taking in his hometown, place of birth and main training rides?
http://www.e-sports.cat/index.php?o...do-amb-una-marxa&catid=85:ciclisme&Itemid=127

I know that Herrero had a bit of a contract dispute with Euskaltel but both he and González de Galdeano said they parted on good terms.

 

[Wiggins_fan]

He'll need at least 2 of those to offset the time he'll lose on Angliru.

Wiggins could stay in contact on Sierra Nevada (though that might be a bit too early in the race), La Covatilla, and La Manzaneda. I have fears for him on Farrapona, especially coming straight off San Lorenzo, which is steep an very unfriendly to a climber like Wiggins. Angliru? Well, that's just destruction to a tempo climber. Even Leipheimer, who has always been a better climber than Wiggins, lost over a minute there (in one of the best climbing performances of his life, finishing ahead of Sastre and Mosquera). And that time, Angliru was before a couple of other big moutain stages - this year it's one of the last, so the riders will already have San Lorenzo and Farrapona in the legs. Peña Cabarga, though short, also doesn't suit Wiggins at all and I'd expect him to lose maybe 30-45 seconds there.

On top of that, I expect the likes of Antón, Rodríguez and Nibali to be able to take a few seconds out of him on Valdepeñas de Jaén and San Lorenzo de El Escorial - these are most definitely not suited to Wiggins' style.

I think there's far too much scope for places where he will lose time to be balanced by just one ITT, even though it's a long one.

Yes. You are of course right It will be fun to watch how far he is willing to dig deep in those climbs not made for him however. It's funny how those who decide the vuelta route could have tailor made it for a Wiggins victory if they wanted. If this was the Tour of Britain I'm sure we would have seen 2 long ITTs MAYBE, then we would have seen some wigan magic

 

[El Pistolero]

wiggins will drop minutes to the top climbers on the angliru

he can top 10 but has no chance at the podium.

btw dunno if you have ever seen the angliru so . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIr8u0j08gU

that climb is just unforgivable for a guy like wiggins

Actually, Angliru is a climb where you tempo climb instead of explosive bursts all the time(unless you're name if Contador of course)

But of course he'll lose time there, because he's not a pure climber.

 

[Escarabajo]

I have learned over the years that long grinding climbs, as opposed to shorter steep climbs, is where riders loose more time. If you combine the both then is really worse (Ventoux).