Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2020: Stage 7 (Vitoria-Gasteiz > Villanueva de Valdegovia, 159,7 km)

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200 IQ move by Rabo.
Send your best climbing domestiques in a breakaway the day before a MTF, let them work and sprint for KOM points. Then they can't follow the best on the final ascent and still work on the descent/flat and rolling terrain later on when there are clearly faster guys in the same group and ahead on the road. If they were on the road to help Roglc durning a potential long range attack ok, but he didn't even try to something on the final climb and they did too much work in the breakaway when they weren't really benefiting from it.
I don't get it.
 
Fraile may very well have won, and he was the one really POed along with Martin over Woods' refusal to do anything at all.
Fraile reacted too late to Woods' attack. He probably had the strength to catch Woods if he'd gone just a little sooner.

Woods rode solo for what, 5km before the Valverde group caught him? After that, he was entitled to not help Valverde gain time on Carthy.
 
You can say what you like about Woods.

imo he had no obligation to work with someone who could rival his teammates run at a top 5 while being on paper one of the weakest in the finale and having already put in by far the biggest solo effort of the group. Also while it's not 'working' for the group he did also take the responsibility of closing down several attacks in the run in himself from which all of his companions bar the attacker benefitted.

An excellent and well deserved win. Made the selection himself, covered moves and closed it out
 
You can say what you like about Woods.

imo he had no obligation to work with someone who could rival his teammates run at a top 5 while being on paper one of the weakest in the finale and having already put in by far the biggest solo effort of the group. Also while it's not 'working' for the group he did also take the responsibility of closing down several attacks in the run in himself from which all of his companions bar the attacker benefitted.

An excellent and well deserved win. Made the selection himself, covered moves and closed it out

If he's that worried about his teammate then go back and PULL the peloton. Sorry, not even close to a deserved win ANY of the other 4 deserved that win more than he did and his reputation in the peloton will take a major blow from this.
 
200 IQ move by Rabo.
Send your best climbing domestiques in a breakaway the day before a MTF, let them work and sprint for KOM points. Then they can't follow the best on the final ascent and still work on the descent/flat and rolling terrain later on when there are clearly faster guys in the same group and ahead on the road. If they were on the road to help Roglc durning a potential long range attack ok, but he didn't even try to something on the final climb and they did too much work in the breakaway when they weren't really benefiting from it.
I don't get it.
Roglic must feel really bad for it to make sense (to try to bring Bennett back into the GC game), yes. It would not be a major surprise though
 
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There is a big difference between not working as much and flat out refusing to do any work at all. That is the difference you are missing. Not doing as much work is still doing some work and not just sitting on wheels refusing to pull through and when forced to literally sitting up and not even pedaling. That is 100% disgusting behavior and a great way to make enemies in the peloton. The peloton knows for sure he's a wheel sucker and will label him.
To come back to my previous example, if Nibali completely refuses to work with Sagan, would that be disgusting behavior as well? Cause I would actually call it having a brain cell.
Refusing to work with better sprinters has never been a disgusting behavior and never will be.

If he's that worried about his teammate then go back and PULL the peloton. Sorry, not even close to a deserved win ANY of the other 4 deserved that win more than he did and his reputation in the peloton will take a major blow from this.
No it won't. That factor has always been overrated anyway and really, if it does take a major blow (which again, it won't), so what? He just won a Vuelta stage using that tactic. Do you think Woods is afraid that the next time he is in a group with vastly superior sprinters someone won't be willing to work with him leading to the stage not ending in a sprint? Isn't that exactly what Woods wants? I fail to see the benefit for Woods if he always plays the losing game and works with the others. Your reputation among other cyclists might indeed become very good but I don't know if you want to be known as the guy who always drags the better sprinters to the finish.
 
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To come back to my previous example, if Nibali completely refuses to work with Sagan, would that be disgusting behavior as well? Cause I would actually call it having a brain cell.
Refusing to work with better sprinters has never been a disgusting behavior and never will be.


No it won't. That factor has always been overrated anyway and really, if it does take a major blow (which again, it won't), so what? He just won a Vuelta stage using that tactic. Do you think Woods is afraid that the next time he is in a group with vastly superior sprinters someone won't be willing to work with him leading to the stage not ending in a sprint? Isn't that exactly what Woods wants? I fail to see the benefit for Woods if he always plays the losing game and works with the others. Your reputation among other cyclists might indeed become very good but I don't know if you want to be known as the guy who always drags the better sprinters to the finish.
Yes it would be for ANY rider to not do any work.

Yes it will. It already did with the other riders in that group. Woods may realize that the next time the riders would be happier to let the bigger group behind catch them and try again or just go with the bigger group so they can chase if he attacks and then just sit on knowing that's all he's going to do. He looses his reputation and thus others won't co operate at all knowing his in the group. That leads to him even getting into a break in the first place to be less and less likely as teams just won't allow it. He obviously has no problem losing respect in the peloton because that's exactly what he did.
 
200 IQ move by Rabo.
Send your best climbing domestiques in a breakaway the day before a MTF, let them work and sprint for KOM points. Then they can't follow the best on the final ascent and still work on the descent/flat and rolling terrain later on when there are clearly faster guys in the same group and ahead on the road. If they were on the road to help Roglc durning a potential long range attack ok, but he didn't even try to something on the final climb and they did too much work in the breakaway when they weren't really benefiting from it.
I don't get it.
Jumbos stage racing tactics have really annoyed me throughout the year. The f*cking only thing they do is playing with their muscles setting the pace of the peloton, but they never do anything aggressive. If Roglic doesn't feel good, fair, don't attack, but as you said if that's the decision what were Kuss and Bennett doing?

It's also that I'm starting to like Roglic as a gc rider less and less. It seems crazy now that he was looked upon as really aggressive when he first broke through as a gt contender, but has he made a single attack in gt's this year? I often complained about Froome only making totally calculated attacks on mtf's, but at least he was attacking. Roglic just isn't doing anything except waiting for sprints
 
I've been following this conversation with half-an-eye for the last few pages, and isn't a rider coming up with some excuse - which may or may not be completely justified - a pretty common part of breakaway riding?
The others in that group might be annoyed with Woods for a few days, but then it's likely to be forgotten, and then one day they might find themselves in a situation where it's beneficial to them not to work.
 
200 IQ move by Rabo.
Send your best climbing domestiques in a breakaway the day before a MTF, let them work and sprint for KOM points. Then they can't follow the best on the final ascent and still work on the descent/flat and rolling terrain later on when there are clearly faster guys in the same group and ahead on the road. If they were on the road to help Roglc durning a potential long range attack ok, but he didn't even try to something on the final climb and they did too much work in the breakaway when they weren't really benefiting from it.
I don't get it.
By the end of the stage, Carapaz only had one Ineos teammate alongside him. They made the red jersey work, lose men, blow cartridges.

Whatever.
 
By the end of the stage, Carapaz only had one Ineos teammate alongside him. They made the red jersey work, lose men, blow cartridges.

Whatever.
Even if it's a hard pace it's much easier riding a steady pace all day than working in a break that's trying to stay clear of hard pace and mixing it up with attacks on the climbs.

For all we know Ineos told guys like Sosa to just knock it off and chill today too.
 
Jumbos stage racing tactics have really annoyed me throughout the year. The f*cking only thing they do is playing with their muscles setting the pace of the peloton, but they never do anything aggressive. If Roglic doesn't feel good, fair, don't attack, but as you said if that's the decision what were Kuss and Bennett doing?

It's also that I'm starting to like Roglic as a gc rider less and less. It seems crazy now that he was looked upon as really aggressive when he first broke through as a gt contender, but has he made a single attack in gt's this year? I often complained about Froome only making totally calculated attacks on mtf's, but at least he was attacking. Roglic just isn't doing anything except waiting for sprints
Nobody attacked on the final climb in the GC group? Hardly Roglic' fault.

And seriously the only day Roglic should've attacked in hindsight was Plateau de Glieres which was a tricky descent finish and 25 solo when the race was already in the bag barring an act of Vino. Maybe Marie Blanque but riders get incentivized not to because frigging bonus seconds. Peyresourde he got Poglstomped, same for Grand Colobmier. Dropped Poggers on Col de La Loze, did most of the work on Puy Marie. I

In my opinion Roglic gets a lot of backfitted criticism for riding boring while obviously the strongest in Tour de l'Ain and Dauphine than in the Tour, where the teams tactics were basically solid apart from one mountain stage.

Froome, in all his years of GT wins has barely made any attacks without simply having the goods, when the race was looong in the bag, or when forced to by circumstances. I remember like one dig on Col d'Izoard in 2017 but that's about it. Put peak Froome against Poggers or like 2009 Contador and see how aggressive he is.
 
C'mon, how many times in the past has Valverde wheelsucked to the last 100/150 metres on an uphill sprint to go and win the stage? Woods did what he had to do to win the stage today and you're just a bit pi$$ed your boy didn't win.

P.s. I thought he had a good ride today,.
Woods wheel sucked for about 15-20 kilometers not 100 meters. That is a HUGE difference. It was disgusting on Woods part esp with his worthless excuse. His reputation took a major blow.

I've been following this conversation with half-an-eye for the last few pages, and isn't a rider coming up with some excuse - which may or may not be completely justified - a pretty common part of breakaway riding?
The others in that group might be annoyed with Woods for a few days, but then it's likely to be forgotten, and then one day they might find themselves in a situation where it's beneficial to them not to work.
It will follow him for the rest of his career. It's happened to other riders and doing what he did today will not be forgotten. Fraile had a very GOOD excuse to not work as he had someone in the chase group that could have won from the sprint yet he worked. He and Astana will NOT forget. Matin and Cofidis also won't forget the BS of what Woods did. Again if he was so worried about Carthy losing time then drop back and help Ineos otherwise that's just total BS.
 
Woods wheel sucked for about 15-20 kilometers not 100 meters. That is a HUGE difference. It was disgusting on Woods part esp with his worthless excuse. His reputation took a major blow.



It will follow him for the rest of his career. It's happened to other riders and doing what he did today will not be forgotten. Fraile had a very GOOD excuse to not work as he had someone in the chase group that could have won from the sprint yet he worked. He and Astana will NOT forget. Matin and Cofidis also won't forget the BS of what Woods did. Again if he was so worried about Carthy losing time then drop back and help Ineos otherwise that's just total BS.
Honestly, I'm almost certain that nobody else on earth cares as much about this as you... Follow him the rest of his career? Don't be ridiculous. It won't even follow him to his next hotel room.
 
Jumbos stage racing tactics have really annoyed me throughout the year. The f*cking only thing they do is playing with their muscles setting the pace of the peloton, but they never do anything aggressive. If Roglic doesn't feel good, fair, don't attack, but as you said if that's the decision what were Kuss and Bennett doing?

It's also that I'm starting to like Roglic as a gc rider less and less. It seems crazy now that he was looked upon as really aggressive when he first broke through as a gt contender, but has he made a single attack in gt's this year? I often complained about Froome only making totally calculated attacks on mtf's, but at least he was attacking. Roglic just isn't doing anything except waiting for sprints
TJV never rode today for Roglic to attack, it was clear for me during the stage the way Bennett and Kuss treated the stage. Kuss confirmed after the stage was ended that their intention was to gain time for Bennett.

Lots of headwind today, nobody from GC would've attacked given Amador's pace. At some point there was an attack when Ineos suddenly disappeared from the front and TJV was the front for a bit. We don't know what happened because today the cameras director was off.

But as always it has to be Roglic's fault. When no GC rider attacks it has to be Roglic who is to blame. This happened during TdF as well. Mas also had people in the front, even higher gap than Rog and no TT advantage for him to come.
He clearly needs to attack if he wants to win but I'm not gonna complain about it or starting to like Mas less. Valverde said at the end “I was up there in a possible support role, too, to see if any of my teammates [Mas and Soler] bridged across from the main group.”
 
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It will follow him for the rest of his career. It's happened to other riders and doing what he did today will not be forgotten. Fraile had a very GOOD excuse to not work as he had someone in the chase group that could have won from the sprint yet he worked. He and Astana will NOT forget. Matin and Cofidis also won't forget the BS of what Woods did. Again if he was so worried about Carthy losing time then drop back and help Ineos otherwise that's just total BS.
So... two teams might be a little angry. Four if we include Ag2R and Movistar. The rest of the teams; probably won't give a ***. Why would anyone on NTT care?
And there sure gotta be a lot of unpopular riders in the peloton. Coz Woods' not the first to have used a tactic like that, and he won't be the last, remember; pulling isn't actually mandatory.
 
I've been following this conversation with half-an-eye for the last few pages, and isn't a rider coming up with some excuse - which may or may not be completely justified - a pretty common part of breakaway riding?
The others in that group might be annoyed with Woods for a few days, but then it's likely to be forgotten, and then one day they might find themselves in a situation where it's beneficial to them not to work.
You forget that Valverde being in the group changes everything because of one forum member.
 
So... two teams might be a little angry. Four if we include Ag2R and Movistar. The rest of the teams; probably won't give a ***. Why would anyone on NTT care?
And there sure gotta be a lot of unpopular riders in the peloton. Coz Woods' not the first to have used a tactic like that, and he won't be the last, remember; pulling isn't actually mandatory.
If I was a DS and someone wasn't working without a good reason (like another rider IN that specific group or the one just behind, then I'd tell my rider in that group to sit on the back of the current rider not working because I don't want him using any more energy than that rider.
 

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