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Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2022, stage 15: Martos - Sierra Nevada. Alto Hoya de la Mora. Monachil, 152.6k

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Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but it's a side of Roglic i don't really like, and it's not the first time i've seen some unsportsmanlike racing of him. This really reminded me of when he was trailing Rohan Dennis by 4 minutes i think in the Harrogate WCC ITT. Dennis passed him by with still i think 15k to go, and suddenly he started getting in Dennis' slipstream and trying to overtake him again, while he at that point was a non-factor. He was just trolling Dennis, since he wasn't even getting into the top 10 at that point. To add insult to injury, he actually sprinted next to Dennis when they were about to cross the finishline. That's just poor and pathetic in my book. Today, i'd have no issue if he attacked Evenepoel before the finish, in case he had at least tried to do some work in chasing Mas, who was a threat to him before he was to Evenepoel. Yeah, sorry, not a fan of this behavior. Unfitting a ''great champion''. If you want to wheelsuck your way up a climb, and you feel you need to attack the rider who's been doing your job, by all means but don't expect a thumbs up from me.

Or you are just unhappy Roglič rode smart. That is he did less work and took more time. After realizing he won't gain much time on Evenepoel on this stage. Due to Evenepoel not cracking on the hardest part.

Bottom line you would rather see Roglič blowing himself up and after for Remco to take time. And then you would like Roglič more. Luckily he is more experienced than that. On top of that there is still a stage or two where Roglič can choose to blow himself up or to win this race. Stage 15, after the hardest part on the ultimate climb, was not it.
 
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Now, there is also some possibility that where they lost out was that Evenepoel either didn't feel he could, or wasn't experienced enough to know it was an option, or considered it as an option but rejected it, bluff Roglič and let Mas go, since Mas was about 3 minutes down on Evenepoel.

Yeah, in hindsight that's true, but remember the Tour - Roglic looked like the strongest right until the point when he didn't. What if he was bluffing Evenepoel here in the Vuelta as well? Then Enric Mas rides off with the race and everyone (justifiably) calls Evenepoel an idiot for sticking with Roglic.

Also, it seems Evenepoel just didn't need to take much risks yesterday, just riding his own pace was good enough in the end.
 
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Evenepoel wasn't riding at such a pace that made it impossible to attack, since both Mas and Lopez both attacked, unless i dreamt that, and they immediately got a pretty big gap. So unlike in week 1, this wasn't what Evenepoel was doing. He was just riding a tempo that he knew he could sustain all the way to the top while limiting his losses. The fact that he didn't ride much faster than Arensman from the break, or Ayuso coming from behind, further proves that.

When Roglič and his team did the majority of the job. At the begging of the climb. Then it was up to Mas and López to join in. They choose not to do that.
 
Since the begining of the Vuelta, Remco often follow the 1st or 2nd rider of the group, instead of a GC'threat.
Maybe JV's plan was to have one rider going 99% for the first 500m so that Remco follows him (but Roglic does not) and goes a bit too hard for a few seconds.

I don't except a pro to make such a mistake, but without teammate, under much stress, maybe they expected Remco to make the mistake of following Oomen ?

Or more likely, Oomen thought he was Rubiera on Huez and forgot we are not in 2001 anymore.
 
Logic statement wasn't about being smart or that he couldn't do it. Just that it is a bit weak to do for such a champion to not take his responsibility and then just launches at the end.

No, it's understanding what your limits and tactics are. Jumbo tried something but they didn't shake Remco, Roglic tried to ride a hard tempo but still couldn't drop him. Roglic played it smart and waited, it's not his job to chase.
 
Logic statement wasn't about being smart or that he couldn't do it. Just that it is a bit weak to do for such a champion to not take his responsibility and then just launches at the end.

He took responsibility at the beginning of the climb. On the hardest part. He and his team did everything they should. After it was up to Mas and López to join in. They choose not to. If they would then maybe Roglič would be in red, Mas second and closer to Roglič then he is now to Evenepoel and López to win a stage. As they didn't think like that. Roglič would just end up doing what Evenepoel did. Highly likely losing a couple of seconds. And on top of that accumulating more fatigue. It's not about being weak. It's about not being stupid. And i am sure that Logic understand that. That is all in all Roglič made the best out of a bad situation on stage 15.

P.S. But i can understand on why Logic isn't praising Roglič for that. Nothing wrong with that. It's rather understandable.
 
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What does that have to do with what i said? He can do it, but i don't have to like it.
And if you don't like it, it's unsportsmanlike.

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Yeah, in hindsight that's true, but remember the Tour - Roglic looked like the strongest right until the point when he didn't. What if he was bluffing Evenepoel here in the Vuelta as well? Then Enric Mas rides off with the race and everyone (justifiably) calls Evenepoel an idiot for sticking with Roglic.

Also, it seems Evenepoel just didn't need to take much risks yesterday, just riding his own pace was good enough in the end.
Agreed. It's risk management. Win by 30'' or win by 2'30'', you win either way. So the strategy is to minimise exposure to great losses.
 
Logic statement wasn't about being smart or that he couldn't do it. Just that it is a bit weak to do for such a champion to not take his responsibility and then just launches at the end.
Once Mas had set off, though, it's Remco's responsibility as the race leader. He could have bluffed Rogla saying "Mas needs 3 minutes on me, he's more of a threat to you, I'm not going to ride until he's a threat to me" and see if Rogla would take up the pace, but that might have been disadvantageous to how Remco preferred to ride the climb.

Jumbo have tended to rely heavily on two tactics in recent years, until this year's Tour at least, and those have been to ride at the tempo of the third best rider and scare other people out of attacking with your strength in depth, and to ride on the front until everybody drops, only to then settle in once they've dropped all their domestiques. Those are both frustrating and negative tactics, I know. But it did mean that they probably cost themselves the chance of any of the other major contenders helping them pace early on, as why burn your matches when Jumbo are doing it for you? Then when they got on to the less steep slopes and López attacked followed by Mas, Jumbo had no matches left for Rogla to lean on. For all my criticism, this would have been where they missed Sepp Kuss, because having him on Hazallanas could have detached suffering riders by more and sooner if they did put him on the front, and if they didn't he serves as a useful deterrent to Mas' attack (Supermán probably goes anyway, but he is far enough down not to be an immediate threat at that point).
 
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In conclusion, when it's about Remco or another rider you like all logic is not your friend.
That's funny because i think the bias here is mainly in the pro-Rog (or anti-RE) camp. I don't think in the past it was generally well liked by lots of people when a defending champion would not do any work for miles and miles, just to outsprint his rival in the final stretch. I know a lot MVDP fans didn't like it when Colbrelli outsprinted him, while in that case Colbrelli had actually been doing a lot of work.
 
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That's funny because i think the bias here is mainly in the pro-Rog camp. I don't think in the past it was generally well liked by lots of people when a defending champion would not do any work for miles and miles, just to outsprint his rival in the final stretch. I know a lot MVDP fans didn't like it when Colbrelli outsprinted him, while in that case Colbrelli had actually been doing a lot of work.
And was anyone well-respected for calling Colbrelli unsportsmanlike (if there were anyone who utered such nonsense)?
 
@Logic-is-your-friend

Likely due to the fact Roglič actually did the work we expected from him to do on this stage. People tend to recognize that. And on that part Evenepoel, Mas and López did what? They sucked the wheel.

But OK. I know where this is going. Roglič must redeem himself in week 3. Heavens forbid he would just sit there on Evenepoel wheel. Lets hence just build on that.
 
idk im sure i didn't. even called Colbrelli smart and VDP stupid (for pulling when he was clearly gassed already).
But that's besides the point. :D

Anyway, I'd be less pissed for something 100% logical happening in a GT and just be happy Evenepoel has a healthy 1m30 lead with only easy mt stages remaining.
 
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@Logic-is-your-friend

Likely due to the fact Roglič actually did the work we expected from him to do on this stage. People tend to recognize that. And on that part Evenepoel, Mas and López did what? They sucked the wheel.

But OK. I know where this is going. Roglič must redeem himself in week 3. Heavens forbid he would just sit there on Evenepoel wheel. Lets hence just build on that.
Wait... Roglic was attacking Evenepoel... You think Evenepoel should have helped him do that?
 
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