Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2023, stage 17: Ribadesella/Ribadeseya - Altu de l’Angliru, 124.4k

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If Roglic wants to prove a point he should have counter attacked once Ayuso shut down Vingegaard's initial attack on the Tourmalet. He obviously couldn't. Today he tried to prove a point, but Vingegaard calmly was glued to his wheel. Not willing to give Roglic an inch of space.

Of course it's an ego battle between Vingegaard & Roglic. And it might very well be Kuss who's going to lose it.
 
Having the red jersey does not automatically make him the leader of the team. When Wout wore yellow in the TdF, that did not mean he was suddenly the leader of the team.

Sepptimus is paid (well) to be a domestique to help Rog and Jonas win GTs. By some odd chance, he is now in the lead of the Vuelta. But that does not make him a team leader.

I do hope Sepp hangs on. He's a super nice chap, almost as nice is Neilson Powless.
was talking about leader of the race
and you sound like Roglic and Vingegaard ...we hope Sepp wins but we are attacking him ..such baloney

And its not about pay its about loyalty
Hope Pogacar employs Sepp
 
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There was no reason today not to wait for Sepp. I mean they were sure to get the stage win either way, even if Landa cought on. So just like yesterday they only took time on Kuss for reason whatsoever. Vinge even looked and looked at Kuss. I am not liking this style of racing much.

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Yes, if it is everyman for themselves, then stop saying in interview that i am happy for Sepp to win since you are not happy as you want to win. I dont think that the strongest will win strategy will change people's opinion of the Vuelta( I predict 2-5). It was snuffed out with Remco's challenge. Kuss's win does wonders for PR with JV. A Roglic or Jonas win is bad PR. Give Kuss the win and compensate the other in some other way.
 
Since Rogla was third wheel within GC TJV I expected Vinge to stick with Kuss today (as for example Rogla did on some previous stages) and Rogla would be given freedom to go for it if he could make separation from rest of the field.
Huge difference between yesterday's Bejes stage and today's Angliru stage is that yesterday Jonas jumped from a mixed GC group.
Today they were just the 3 TJV boys left and Primoz not exactly jumping, just drilling hard, as the race today was the kind of race riders dropping from behind like apples on an appletree in the fall.

Would IMO have looked awkward Jonas looking behind Sepp suddenly dropped and just stopping.

Today I really only missed Jonas to give the mountain respect, but I don't know if he just couldn't eat up today and if he and Primoz were in the same level of performance.
 
This is how Sky (at least for eight years or so) lost the 2011 Vuelta: because Chris Froome was such an unproven commodity, when he surprisingly found himself in red after the TT, they chose to use him as a domestique to the more proven Wiggins regardless, because Froome had seldom shown more than a couple of consecutive good days before, so they didn't trust him not to fall apart later. As a result, he was taking pulls in red on La Manzaneda - an otherwise somewhat unthreatening mountain, especially compared to San Lorenzo or Angliru - and time lost on that stage as a result wound up costing them the GC - until of course years down the line Cobo got scrubbed.

For me, them letting the others attack and hopefully defeat Sepp is the only thing Jumbo have going for them.
All the other people cheering for Kuss to lose bother me, but not you. I appreciate the commitment to your hatred of Kuss, and the unwavering dedication you have to it. You are my kind of people, even if I don't agree with you...the rest of these clowns are just part time Kuss haters, with situational dedication. You're 24/7. Chapeau!
 
All the other people cheering for Kuss to lose bother me, but not you. I appreciate the commitment to your hatred of Kuss, and the unwavering dedication you have to it. You are my kind of people, even if I don't agree with you...the rest of these clowns are just part time Kuss haters, with situational dedication. You're 24/7. Chapeau!
A 24/7 Kuss hater compared to all the other 7-11 casuals. Respect !
 
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Vingegaard: “To be honest, I hope Kuss keeps the red one. “I would love for him to win the Vuelta.”
Roglic: “I'm betting on myself to win La Vuelta, but Sepp is wearing red and I hope he wins. However, we will see what happens."

View: https://twitter.com/Copedaleando/status/1702024001768353923

Those comments by JV leaders are confusing. One one hand they say things like that but on the other hand they attack Kuss. If they stop attacking him from now on then those comments will make some sense.

Then again, in terms of watching it's much better than those 3 arriving together at the finish of every stage - that wouldn't be even a race.
 
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was talking about leader of the race
and you sound like Roglic and Vingegaard ...we hope Sepp wins but we are attacking him ..such baloney

And its not about pay its about loyalty
Hope Pogacar employs Sepp
I am a fan of sport so I believe the best rider should win. And I hope that rider is Sepptimus Kuss.

Loyalty. Imagine Eddie Merckx letting someone win a GT because of “loyalty.”
 
Don't forget Jessie Diggins... ;)
I'm talking about general trends of hatred with those two, rather than me specifically. I don't recall anybody apart from a few one-eyed Aussies ever expressing anything but vitriol about Gerrans, and Leipheimer, all I need to say is "2011 Tour de Suisse", one of this forum's biggest instantaneous and communal outpourings of hatred ever seen.

Otherwise I'd raise Peter Sagan, who I hated more, and was swimming even more against the tide regarding.
 
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Having just watched the end of the stage this evening, I am absolutely shocked that there is anyone who follows cycling who thinks that the behaviour of Roglic and Vinegaard today - and most importantly by proxy the TJV DS - was acceptable.

TJV clearly have the race, and the top 3 positions in the bag at this point. They have the 3 best climbers in the race and all are a reasonable distance away from their nearest rivals.

To drop their team mate in the red jersey at that point on the stage (i.e. not from a mixed group lower down the mountain) was an absolute disgrace and reflects extremely badly on those involved - Primoz Roglic and his DS being most culpable imo. There was no tactical nuance or uncertainty going on here -

Cycling is a team sport. Kuss sacrifices his own ambitions for stage wins etc every year across multiple grand tours in support of his team leaders - as expected. To rewrite this fundamental principle of cycling - and essentially declare it an individual sport where it is every man for himself as Roglic has done at the end of this stage - is complete nonsense.

Kuss has done what is required of him in the ITT and these mountain stages thus far. Clearly if he gets dropped from a mixed group halfway down the climb noone is going to expect Roglic or Vinge to hold back and ride for him. If that happens then fair enough. But that was not the situation today, and looking at the upcoming stages and Kuss' form that is hugely unlikely to happen.

I have always been a fan of Roglic but he has shown his true colours today imo.

A complete and utter disgrace.
 
What Roglic said makes no sense. Yes but no but yes.
In my opionion the situation changed a lot today:
on the previous stages Roglic has been riding like a great team mate and Vingegaard has been "the bad guy" attacking the man in the red jersey, but today Roglic was "the bad guy" and he fuels it in the interviews afterward. Jonas interview afterward was a joke "I want Sepp to win (that's why I attack him every day)", but what I've seen from Roglics interviews after today are maybe even worse.
 

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