Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2023, stage 18: Pola de Allande - La Cruz de Linares, 178.9k

[Rob5091]

Kuss in red is a joke that Jumbo are playing on everyone (milking all the PR in the meanwhile). The new sponsor (I assume they've got one) must be glad. Today, they can follow along, whistle "yankee doodle dandy" and not give a [expletive]. Who'll be in red and the end of the day? Someone from team Jumbo.

Sivakov won in Italy, and Landa did well yesterday so changing teams seems to be a good motivator. Lenny VE made an audacious move so maybe a good day in the break with Remco will show how good he is.

 

[Notarobot]

I just don't know what to feel about this Vuelta.
Kuss is maybe my favorite rider, but he is in this position because of a breakaway. This is not a problem, this happens and I like when breakaway riders battle for the overall victory by trying to hang on in the remaining stages. The problem is Roglic and Vingegaard. Arguably the two best riders in the world, riding for the same team. I believe they could have put minutes on Kuss by now, but didn't. Vingegaard could have taken the red jersey on the Angliru, I'm pretty sure about that. I think he won't attack Kuss anymore, but he will follow Roglic again if he attacks. I'm not sure Roglic won't attack Kuss anymore. Roglic is in this very strange position where he expected to battle Evenepoel for the win. Now he's in third position with only his teammates in front of him, with one of them he could have dropped on several occasions. There's also legacy. He can become recordholder for most Vuelta wins. Winning both Giro and Vuelta in the same year. Would you give away a GT when you know you're better than the other guy? It's not just a stagewin giveaway. The dedication and preparation for a GT is so big, it's not easy to give away, not even to a teammate who you own a lot to.

So we have:
- A rider who can win both Giro and Vuelta in the same year
- A rider who can become recordholder for most Vuelta wins
- A rider who can win both Tour and Vuelta in the same year
- A rider who can win his first (and probably only) GT

Yes, they are teammates, yes one of them did help the other two win several GT's, but he get's paid for that and is now in this position because of the other two riders being in this Vuelta.

Whether they battle against eachother by now or stick together to let Kuss win, it will both feel weird and not right. Best thing to do is to sit together and discuss this. Come to an agreement. And don't forget, money talks. But you can't tell these guys to sort it out themselves. The DS has to step in.

So, I just hope Mas wins this Vuelta. That would be the best outcome

 

[ontheroad]

Hinault and Koechli v Lemond.

Vinegaard and Roglic v Kuss.

Slashing the Kusshion.

Except that this is Vingegaard v Roglic and Kuss is just caught in the crossfire.

 

[topcat]

Javier: Sepp, your father left home when you were 4, your brother lost his leg in a tragic fishing accident, your mother had to scrub floors to feed you, you’ve had to slave for years for Rog and Vingo without reward, it’s been a life of unbelievable hardship.
Sepp: you’re not going to make me cry Javier.
Javier: Actually I have great news. I now present you with this ice lolly in honour of you winning Vuelta 2023.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

I'm expecting zero GC action today. After all the internet and commentator outrage I think the 2nd and 3rd on GC will dutifully stay put now for the remainder of the race. Unfortunately for them there is nobody left to even pretend to have to follow. Ayuso has been a bit disappointing even allowing for a crash he had - obviously a very good young rider still and possibly still capable of winning this race in future but maybe not a superstar. Storer FTW

 

[iBanesto]

Except for "Vinegaard" should be in the role as Lemond.
Lemond was clearly the stronger of the two that year.

Apart from that a bit of a silly comparison.

There is no one on TJV who is against either Sepp, Primoz or Jonas nor have one of them in favor of another, although a sheep hord really wants to sing that song.
It's just the circumstances that seem unfair to someone, should the three take up the battle of who is the strongest. Instead of making it a cry-baby Netflix series.

 

[HelloDolly]

Behind the façade, fissures form at Jumbo

It wasn't a fun evening at the team hotel.

escapecollective.com

AS i thought the issue is between Roglic and Vingegaard

Its not either doesn't want Kuss to win ...Its they don't want the other to win or do better than them in the race

 

[Earns1985]

Yes, they are teammates, yes one of them did help the other two win several GT's, but he get's paid for that and is now in this position because of the other two riders being in this Vuelta.

He is getting paid a lot less than the other two, so this is definitely not an argument.

 

[Notarobot]

You're probably right. But I don't know how much any of them gets paid.
There's also a lot more pressure on Roglic and Vingegaard, so it would be fair they get paid more imho.

 

[Berniece]

Behind the façade, fissures form at Jumbo

It wasn't a fun evening at the team hotel.

escapecollective.com

AS i thought the issue is between Roglic and Vingegaard

Its not either doesn't want Kuss to win ...Its they don't want the other to win or do better than them in the race

Makes a lot of sense their minds are already at TDF 2024

 

[AmRacer]

I just don't know what to feel about this Vuelta.
Kuss is maybe my favorite rider, but he is in this position because of a breakaway. This is not a problem, this happens and I like when breakaway riders battle for the overall victory by trying to hang on in the remaining stages. The problem is Roglic and Vingegaard. Arguably the two best riders in the world, riding for the same team. I believe they could have put minutes on Kuss by now, but didn't. Vingegaard could have taken the red jersey on the Angliru, I'm pretty sure about that. I think he won't attack Kuss anymore, but he will follow Roglic again if he attacks. I'm not sure Roglic won't attack Kuss anymore. Roglic is in this very strange position where he expected to battle Evenepoel for the win. Now he's in third position with only his teammates in front of him, with one of them he could have dropped on several occasions. There's also legacy. He can become recordholder for most Vuelta wins. Winning both Giro and Vuelta in the same year. Would you give away a GT when you know you're better than the other guy? It's not just a stagewin giveaway. The dedication and preparation for a GT is so big, it's not easy to give away, not even to a teammate who you own a lot to.

So we have:
- A rider who can win both Giro and Vuelta in the same year
- A rider who can become recordholder for most Vuelta wins
- A rider who can win both Tour and Vuelta in the same year
- A rider who can win his first (and probably only) GT

Yes, they are teammates, yes one of them did help the other two win several GT's, but he get's paid for that and is now in this position because of the other two riders being in this Vuelta.

Whether they battle against eachother by now or stick together to let Kuss win, it will both feel weird and not right. Best thing to do is to sit together and discuss this. Come to an agreement. And don't forget, money talks. But you can't tell these guys to sort it out themselves. The DS has to step in.

So, I just hope Mas wins this Vuelta. That would be the best outcome

Jonas can win both Tour and Vuelta in the Future
Rogla maybe don't get another chance to win again (age and i think he's not getting any better)
Kuss could win a GT, if Rogla, Pog and Jonas (maybe Remco too) don't race.

 

[Andy schleck]

The three amigos will finish with the same time. Breakaway wins the day!

The final climb is very steep and difficult. There will be some differences between them.

 

[Billie]

Behind the façade, fissures form at Jumbo

It wasn't a fun evening at the team hotel.

escapecollective.com

AS i thought the issue is between Roglic and Vingegaard

Its not either doesn't want Kuss to win ...Its they don't want the other to win or do better than them in the race

Surely for the team having Kuss win is the easiest choice. Bascially means they don't have to choose between Roglic or Vingegaard.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Surely for the team having Kuss win is the easiest choice. Bascially means they don't have to choose between Roglic or Vingegaard.

There isn't really a choice now with Vingegaard well ahead of Roglic on time.

 

[ice&fire]

Behind the façade, fissures form at Jumbo

It wasn't a fun evening at the team hotel.

escapecollective.com

AS i thought the issue is between Roglic and Vingegaard

Its not either doesn't want Kuss to win ...Its they don't want the other to win or do better than them in the race

Looks like someone might need to hire his own personal support crew to avoid taking food or drinks from the team.

 

[Vino's Mum]

Looks like someone might need to hire his own personal support crew to avoid taking food or drinks from the team.

Stephen Roche has entered the chat.

 

[Netserk]

Bahrain yet again inactive in the breakaway phase. They are 100 % on mission Landa. Ayuso will die today.

 

[Netserk]

noun
Road cycling discussion forum

A place where people can discuss road cycling
Professional cycling licence not a requirement for participation

Perfect.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Almost 30 km of slight downhill until the next climb. If I was QS DS I would put Pedersen to the front here to keep it together. Than it should be easier for Remco and Cattaneo/Hirt to create a strong break on the next small climb.

 

[Netserk]

Evenepoel in the break. Also a Bahrain rider.

 

[perico]

Remco happy just targeting the Vuelta KOM

He’s too good for GC. His real ambition is to be the modern day David Moncoutie.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Evenepoel in the break. Also a Bahrain rider.

Both Buitrago and Poels could win this from the break, but I can’t see if it’s one of them.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Look at that pace line in G2, think it's gone

 

[Danskebjerge]

I'm pretty sure we won't see Vingegaard leave Kuss today. I'm less sure about Roglic. In today's interview, Vingegaard didn't seem too sure about Roglic either.

 

[Tim Cahill]

1		1	EVENEPOEL Remco	37:38
2		33	BERNAL Egan	2:13:19
3		42	CARUSO Damiano	58:17
4		52	BERNARD Julien	2:39:11
5		63	ASKEY Lewis	3:10:55
6		65	GERMANI Lorenzo	2:41:48
7		72	DENZ Nico	2:57:51
8		92	DRIZNERS Jarrad	3:48:15
9		94	KRON Andreas	2:29:45
10		105	PICCOLO Andrea	2:35:23
11		144	ERVITI Imanol	2:34:28
12		163	DAINESE Alberto	3:46:59
13		168	POOLE Max	2:05:50
14		186	OURSELIN Paul	1:30:40