Vuelta Ciclista al Pais Vasco, 4-9 April

[theyoungest]

This is the wrong profile. They climb about 1.5 kms more. On the race website you can click the stage profiles to get the profiles of the separate climbs.

 

[Cobblestoned]

clearly not.



no worries.

Stages 1-4; Flat stages. scary
Stage 5; The "Queen stage".
The final climb 7.6km @ 8.3 % - Although not the easiest climb, hardly a finish too claim this is a hard race. Further more the climb and stage were poorly contested, this is reflected on the stage results.
1st Place finished the stage @ 4.59Hr - with 8 riders together on the line.
Up to 23rd place finished the stage at just 19 seconds behind. DEVASTATING time differences.
Stage 6; The time trial.
Stage 7; Mostly flat.
Stage 8; the 2nd most difficult stage, and not nearly selective enough. About 20 riders coming in together with no more then 20 secs between them (after the break away).
***The Race had no MTF.
***The field was weak in terms of climbers, other then Samu (and maybe tondo), didn't have form yet, it lacked any pure climbers.
***There were no climbs selective enough to distance pure climbers from the tony martins. Stage 5 even lacked real tempo, it was asif the riders had conceded defeat to martin with the itt in mind already. It was a poorly ridden race, and the worst pn i have seen in a long time. This as I remember was a very general feeling on the forum.

Can anyone remember any rider really putting in a devastating atack on any of the climbs? Nope, the course discouraged this.

please look at results from stage 5 and 8. Some of these guys are pretty average climbers when the peleton hits real climbs.
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=19864
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=19861

---Basque will not be that easy. There is a much much better field here, in terms of climbing, no doubt it will be ridden at a better tempo on the climbs.
There are more climbs, where gradual climbing at long distance (which we saw to a small extent at PN)will be replaced with medium steep climbs. Let's see martin follow some of the pure climbers in form.

Don't let Martin's victory delude you that PN was a tough race, when in fact the small time gaps and low tempo ridden is evidence of the opposite.



generally I would agree, tho Basque is one of the best stage races out there. But last year's flanders and PR were really disappointing imo. Especially PR (watching spartacus do a 50km tt while flecha and co were content with 2nd while boonen was the only one attempting to bring Spartacus back was really crap). In fact Basque was a lot better then those races last year.

Based on E3, I think it might be a similar situation this year.

Wow that really looks horrible.

I am not deluded by Martin win and I saw a hard race. If you follow riders comments, you will see that they had a hard race and that was also obvious impression.
I also know that PV is also a hard race and has always been.
Now please tell me, which one of the climbers you are talking about could have been able to drop Martin, even if they rode Ventoux 2times ?
This race lacked of climbers ? lol
And if there where some, they of course didn't have the form. Martins fault and P-N fault of course.
Besides that, I mean, just look at the the profiles. I see many mountains and selective climbs.
If people like Frank Schleck are on holidays there or ill, its not fault of the mountains.
Where is your problem ?
No MTF, ok. Would have liked to see more, too. But that stage won by Klöden was nearly a MTF.
Results wouldn't have been different if they finished on that penultimate climb, or climbed more on a heavier final climb after that . If there is a finish short after MT, you have same riders up there, like riding a pour MTF.

Has always been like that and is logic.

I see people that try to make the race 800000000x more worse than it was in reality.
The problem are all these extremes and exaggerating. Can't you see this ?
I'll just say again and to show how easy things could work:

- that I have seen better editions of P-N and this one was somehow average in most parts, while ca.75% of all bikeraces are average, without some people whining about it for months. But no way that worse like some people make it.
- that this P-N edition had some TT-km too much to deliver a closer and more mixed resultslist on further placings, not meaning that there was even less climbing compared to the usual editions ( please watch people ! ), and also not meaning that there was no competition anywhere. Many riders, even Sammy, talked about some hard competion and stages, high speed from start till finish and sometimes just about pure surviving the race, especiallly on that last stage.
- considering Martin's form and season (and performances of other riders), the only chance to have an other rider winning, was to leave out TT nearly tutto completto.

Is this really so hard to understand and accept ? Obviously !
It has to be "80000000000x", "joke", "snoozefest", "weak", "no mountains", "boring pussyrace", "Martin won before race even started", "easy ride for him" . Thats what its all about I think.
This is the correct level and base to start some serious and wonderful talk.

This was my last ever post regarding P-N 2011. Last in my life.
Be sure of that, people. Do, overdo and write whatever you want.
Reason could be that people here love total exaggerating and endless post-kicking and whining as soon as something goes not after their wishes - for weeks and month.

Looking forward to Monday anyway. And if Tony won't win in the end, we both will survive nevertheless.
What do the odds say then for "Tony win" or "Tony will be dropped in the mountains" ?

 

[Cobblestoned]

I respect your personal opinion about Martin, Klöden etc. and their chances in this race, but the sentence above is as safe as they come.

It's easy for you to go and say "Yeah, they didn't keep their current level" if they turn out to loose massively in the almost-MTF's.

What sort of time difference do you see Martin, Klödi etc. being able to pull back in the TT - and how much do you think they'll need to pull back (=how much time WILL they loose according to your estimates?)

Martin and Klöden impressed me at the race to the sun, but just looking at the profiles of the two races tell me that this race won't be favoring TT specialists as much as P-N this year.

It's the riders that make the race, and noone managed to put Martin in real danger (except for maybe Klöden in that lethal sprint on stage 5, LOL) in France. Let's see if that's the case here - "Ich don't think so"

You said it.

Easy for me ? lol
I will be bashed even more for years and daily, if Tony won't win.
So, who risks more ? People saying wahwah Martin will be dropped in the mountains for sure ?
Thats some great prediction and high high risk. All in. Tony will bonk, but don't pick a winner myself.
I see some clowns doing the big "I told you so" even when Martin gets 2nd or 3th.

I see riders like Martin loosing maximum 1-1.5 minutes on some punchers. Because of superior TT strenght they will take back 2-3 minutes on some leading "troublemakers" that can't TT.
Is that ok for you ?
Looking forward to that drama. Tony not first on each climb will mean "Tony was dropped in mountains".

I hope Martin is the THC leader after all and does not ride just for support. Otherwise we would have wasted a lot of time anyway. lol

We will see. Looking forward to it.

 

[theyoungest]

It might be your username, but it certainly seems like you're on something. What an unreadable mess.

 

[ingsve]

I am backing Duran Duran all the way.

I'm guessing you are referring to Uran here so I'll counter with Arkaitz Duran and David Arroyo Duran.

 

[luckyboy]

Hoping Menchov does well. Don't think he'll lose much on the climbs, and he's about the best TTer from the main favourites (not thinking Martin will hang in there on the climbs).

 

[Jamsque]

I'm guessing you are referring to Uran here so I'll counter with Arkaitz Duran and David Arroyo Duran.

There is only one Uran so nice they named him twice, and that is Rigoberto dUran dUran.

 

[Cobblestoned]

It might be your username, but it certainly seems like you're on something. What an unreadable mess.

All the feelhappy-hormones after a long, wet and windy ride coming out, is such a great feeling, isn't it ?
I am on cycling. Cycling-addict, like Lance.
"What am I on? I'm on my bike busting my *** six hours a day. What are you on?"

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Almost all the profiles look like crazy mountain stages but there only seems to be one climb above 1000 meters.

I wonder if we'll get to see Rafael Valls a bit!

that;s alkways the case in this race

 

[Cobblestoned]

Hoping Menchov does well. Don't think he'll lose much on the climbs, and he's about the best TTer from the main favourites (not thinking Martin will hang in there on the climbs).

I am not only hoping that he does well.

It is now finally time for him to do well....or just something !

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I am not only hoping that he does well.

It is now finally time for him to do well....or just something !

I'll be almost anything that menchov will not be strong in this race. he sucked incredibly in catalunya, no way he'll be good now.

 

[luckyboy]

Oh damn, forgot he was even in Catalunya

 

[Cobblestoned]

I'll be almost anything that menchov will not be strong in this race. he sucked incredibly in catalunya, no way he'll be good now.

I somehow trust him and he tends to suck often in such races, and I wouldn't "panic" if he was riding the Tour as seasonhighlight.
But Giro seems his highlight, more or less forced, and he should slowly heat up now.

 

[Ryaguas]

I'll be almost anything that menchov will not be strong in this race. he sucked incredibly in catalunya, no way he'll be good now.

He and Sastre were Ill tho... that's why they lost 8min the very 1st day

 

[Ryaguas]

Some pics from Movistar making a recon for Pais Vasco

This look steep...

This looks STEEP...

 

[will10]

Following his performance in the Criterium International, it will be interesting to see what Kiryenka can do here.

 

[theyoungest]

I'll be almost anything that menchov will not be strong in this race. he sucked incredibly in catalunya, no way he'll be good now.

In the week before Catalunya he had been ill, and got hit by a car, so I don't think we can judge his form by that race. In Murcia he was doing just fine.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The TT in País Vasco is rather lumpy too. It's one that Martin should be able to win with his TT level, but Euskal Herriko Itzulia TTs tend to throw out some odd results as the GC-minded climbers are able to limit losses.

In 2010 (Orio) Intxausti and Rodríguez were within 35 seconds of the winning time; in 2009 (Zalla) Samu put a similar amount of time into the likes of Luís León, Evans, Pinotti and VDV; 2008 (Orio) Damiano Cunego out-TTed Schumacher and Monfort, while Rujano and Mosquera got into the top 20; in 2007 (Oiartzun) the top 5 was Samu, Contador, Cobo, Cunego and Valverde, while Evans was 10th and Fränk Schleck out-TTed Gustav Erik Larsson (in 2007!!!).

Martin is a good enough climber to win the TT, for sure. But he'll need to be climbing at his absolute best to take enough time to win overall.

 

[cineteq]

Frankly, if Chris Horner can win this race, then why not Tony Martin?

Well said +1

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I don't think Tony Martin will win this. I remember seeing last year's race and I forgot in what stage it was where all the riders where swaying their bikes side to side because of how hard the climb was. The whole race was just incredible which made it my favorite race. Back to Tony Martin, I think in this race there's going to be much more attacking than there was in Paris-Nice and I just don't see Martin being able to follow the attacks.

stage 5, to Orio, climbing this brute twice:

Like Montelupone... only harder.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Well said +1

I don't think Martin can't win.

I just think that if he does win, it will be a much more impressive win than Paris-Nice was, because he'll likely need to work much, much harder for it.

 

[theyoungest]

The TT in País Vasco is rather lumpy too. It's one that Martin should be able to win with his TT level, but Euskal Herriko Itzulia TTs tend to throw out some odd results as the GC-minded climbers are able to limit losses.

In 2010 (Orio) Intxausti and Rodríguez were within 35 seconds of the winning time; in 2009 (Zalla) Samu put a similar amount of time into the likes of Luís León, Evans, Pinotti and VDV; 2008 (Orio) Damiano Cunego out-TTed Schumacher and Monfort, while Rujano and Mosquera got into the top 20; in 2007 (Oiartzun) the top 5 was Samu, Contador, Cobo, Cunego and Valverde, while Evans was 10th and Fränk Schleck out-TTed Gustav Erik Larsson (in 2007!!!).

Martin is a good enough climber to win the TT, for sure. But he'll need to be climbing at his absolute best to take enough time to win overall.

That Orio TT is much harder (climbing-wise). They have to do part of the Alto de Aia climb in that one. The Zalla TT is more Martin material.

 

[taiwan]

Frankly, if Chris Horner can win this race, then why not Tony Martin?

Well said +1

Or if Chris Horner can ride a top ten at the Tour, why can't Tony Martin...

 

[theyoungest]

Or if Chris Horner can ride a top ten at the Tour, why can't Tony Martin...

That's an entirely different story. This is a one week race, with only one final climb longer than 5 km.

 

[luckyboy]

stage 5, to Orio, climbing this brute twice:

Like Montelupone... only harder.

Same climb they went over last year when Rodriguez won

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnuNOr2DL4s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQJqybyI0hQ