WC Ponferrada 2014. Altimetry

[Kvinto]

Ever heard of a thing called recuperation? It's also a part of cycling. Hills, uphill sprints, etc are all also part in cycling.

OK, i forgot recuperation though you can't determine recuperation of sprinter but uphill sprints is not quite about Contador and i really don't know how it affects my statement:
the more you dominate sprints, the more one trick pony you are

 

[El Pistolero]

OK, i forgot recuperation though you can't determine recuperation of sprinter but uphill sprints is not quite about Contador and i really don't know how it affects my statement:
the more you dominate sprints, the more one trick pony you are

Boonen was once dominant in both the classics as in the sprints. His sprint is weaker now, but that is because of old age and a lot of crashes that made him scared of sprinting.

 

[ferryman]

OK, i forgot recuperation though you can't determine recuperation of sprinter but uphill sprints is not quite about Contador and i really don't know how it affects my statement:
[I]the more you dominate sprints, the more one trick pony you are[/I]

Exactly and that it is why you were stupid to even try and compare the two. It is like comparing an 100m sprinter against a decathlete.

And for the record I certainly do not hate sprinters or sprints for that matter. Cav on the other hand is just the biggest pr*ck there is out there at the moment.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Boonen was once dominant in both the classics as in the sprints. His sprint is weaker now, but that is because of old age and a lot of crashes that made him scared of sprinting.

boonen was only dominant in cobble races, those are just 2 classics and his sprint definitely weakened since then. same with jalabert and museeuw, etc

 

[ferryman]

Being a one trick pony is inevitable for a top sprinter, look at Hushovd, the more he turns an all rounder the less top sprinter he becomes. A powerful sprinter can be good also on cobbles and even in tt, but in the end the more you dominate sprints, the more one trick pony you are. Contador is able to do two things - climb (he is the best climber in the world) and tt (he is the best tter among GT riders) It's just one ability more than Cavendish, but as these abilities are crucial for winning the most prestigious race in the world, the likes of You despise sprinters, treating them like an absolute evil of cycling, which i can't agree.

Are you being serious

 

[Kvinto]

Boonen was once dominant in both the classics as in the sprints. His sprint is weaker now, but that is because of old age and a lot of crashes that made him scared of sprinting.

Yes, but it didn't last for long and tbh Boonen had never dominated sprints as evidently as Cav does now.

I just can't understand why are sprinters so despised? Do they train less than others? I guess no. The only "crime" they commit is doing their job, but in the end it seems that in cycling only dopers are treated worse than them.

Are you being serious

as El Pistolero mentioned (and i agree) there is the third thing he can - recuperation, but it doesn't change the fact that the best sprinter can not be an all rounder while the best GT rider can.

 

[Kvinto]

[/B]

Exactly and that it is why you were stupid to even try and compare the two. It is like comparing an 100m sprinter against a decathlete.

And for the record I certainly do not hate sprinters or sprints for that matter. Cav on the other hand is just the biggest pr*ck there is out there at the moment.

why it was stupid? it's true. It was said in the aspect of despising sprinter's work to winning just small flat easy races

 

[El Pistolero]

boonen was only dominant in cobble races, those are just 2 classics and his sprint definitely weakened since then. same with jalabert and museeuw, etc

When was Boonen's glory time in sprinting? 2004-2007

When was Boonen's glory time in the classics? 2005-2009

When Boonen was still very fast he was also very strong at the cobbled classics and MSR at the same time.

 

[Kvinto]

[/B]

Exactly and that it is why you were stupid to even try and compare the two. It is like comparing an 100m sprinter against a decathlete.

And for the record I certainly do not hate sprinters or sprints for that matter. Cav on the other hand is just the biggest pr*ck there is out there at the moment.

as i think i got the wrong end of the stick, let me re-respond please.
here is my orignal post:

For a sprinter quantity is definitely the issue while for the others quality is more important.

I wouldn't like to use a phrase "the best in the World" in the case of the sport in which a different body build equals different skills/specializations. You may laugh all the way undervaluing sprinter's wins but Contador's chances to win against Cav in a "small flat easy race" is not any bigger than for Cav to win Alp d'Huez.

i did not make a quote (my bad ) but it was a respond to:

1. an ultimate question "Might the World Champion be considered as the best cyclist in the World?"
2. a statement that a sprinter wins small flat easy races

As for #1 i said NO. Due to different specializations of riders (caused by natural peculiarities of a body build of different athletes) the world champion can be considered as the best only in a certain type of race he won (sprint, hilly classic, cobbled classic or mountains).

The part of my post about "Contador's sprint = Cav's climbing" refers to the next:

a). A proof in the question #1: a sprinting course of the WC will provide to determining the best sprinter, while a climbing one will determine the best climber and there is no course that could determine The Best Cyclist In The World
b). The reaction to underestimating sprinters as the ones who wins easy races (#2). Of course i understand that it was said in the case of course but let myself a little irony: if these races are so easy why then those who win hard races ain't able to compete there?

then you made a quote, i don't quite understand:

The analogy just about works if they were both one trick ponies. But as Contador is so not it doesn't.

We don't understand each other, i guess. The analogy was about: "the best sprinter will never win agains the best climber on a MTF, the best climber will never win agains the best sprinter in a bunch sprint". How on earth it might be affected by the best sprinter being a one trick pony

Then:

the more you dominate sprints, the more one trick pony you are

Exactly and that it is why you were stupid to even try and compare the two. It is like comparing an 100m sprinter against a decathlete.

And for the record I certainly do not hate sprinters or sprints for that matter. Cav on the other hand is just the biggest pr*ck there is out there at the moment.

I have never compared Cavendish to Conador. The one thing i compared is:

Contador is able to do two things - climb (he is the best climber in the world) and tt (he is the best tter among GT riders) It's just one ability more than Cavendish

I must admit i made a mistake saying it that way but i'd like to explain what i meant. The contrary to a one trick pony is an all rounder (just like a decathlete in your example). The level of an all round can be determined by the units: climbing, time trialing, sprint, uphill sprint, cobbles, descending, recuperation. I tried to compare the amount of such units by Contador and Cav and made it in the case of grading these rides on a scale "one trick pony - all rounder" and as we can't determine Cav's descending (i don't think he is worse than Contador there tbh) and recuperation (it's a tricky point, because on the one hand Alberto's recovering is awesome but on the other hand Cav is as recuperative as it requires to win sprints in a GT. it's not the same level of recuperation but in the end you can't claim Cavendish doesn't have this ability at all even though it is not that necessary for him) it ends up with just 2-1 for Contador.

 

[Kwibus]

Yeah, but there are a lot of those races. And regardless of what you say, many of them are very prestitious too. Most cyclist would bite of their own arm if it ensured winning a Tour de France stage.
Of course I'm not saying Cavendish is a better cyclist than Contador, but he's the best at what he does. And there are a lot of races around the year he's good at, so making the WC similar to some of those races is not too out-of-the-ordinary, even if it doesn't make the most exciting tv.

This TT could be a cool stage in a GT, but it's extremely unusual, very much unlike the Copenhagen races, which if anything were too "usual", and I don't like that, especially with the race director basically saying "we did it to let someone other than Cancellara or Martin win".

Contador happens to be the best at a MTT. Now he gets a half MTT and it's lame.
I think your reasoning is ridiculous. It's ok for Cavendish to have a flat WC road race, but it's not ok they throw in a climb during the WC TT, because they never did that before..

 

[King Of The Wolds]

I just can't understand why are sprinters so despised? Do they train less than others? I guess no. The only "crime" they commit is doing their job, but in the end it seems that in cycling only dopers are treated worse than them.

Even worse than the dopers. Who do most prefer on this site - Cav, Valverde or Basso?

The one trick pony label continues to grate, too. The pure climbers and TTers never get accused of this. Not that Cav is, of course. He's a World Madison Champion, has won a ITT in an elite stage race and I even saw him do a lead out in La Vuelta.

 

[El Pistolero]

Even worse than the dopers. Who do most prefer on this site - Cav, Valverde or Basso?

The one trick pony label continues to grate, too. The pure climbers and TTers never get accused of this. Not that Cav is, of course. He's a World Madison Champion, has won a ITT in an elite stage race and I even saw him do a lead out in La Vuelta.

This is road cycling, no one gives a damn what Cav has done on the track.

And he won a prologue at Romandie. A prologue that was 1.9km in length.... Beating Daniele Bennati and Albasini...

 

[Ferminal]

Not that Cav is, of course. He's a World Madison Champion, has won a ITT in an elite stage race and I even saw him do a lead out in La Vuelta.

That's almost as good as Brett Lancaster.

 

[rantanplan]

In a normal WC ITT i think just 3-4 riders have real posibilities, in this maybe 10-15 thinking have something to do.

http://www.gpcanaldecastilla.com the spanish Roubaix?

 

[El Pistolero]

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/h2h.asp

Compare Contador with Cancellara in the time trial. It's 11-7 in favor of Cancellara. Not that dominant huh

 

[roundabout]

In a normal WC ITT i think just 3-4 riders have real posibilities, in this maybe 10-15 thinking have something to do.

http://www.gpcanaldecastilla.com the spanish Roubaix?

All right, this is going to come off as a bit rude but in what universe do 10-15 riders have real possibilities on this course?

It's not so much the course being made with 1 rider in mind that irks me but rather some pretty pitiful dishonest justifications like the one I quoted.

 

[The Hitch]

http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/h2h.asp

Compare Contador with Cancellara in the time trial. It's 11-7 in favor of Cancellara. Not that dominant huh

Did you just discover that site and are now posting random tt comparisons

Still you are right its surprising. But 10-5 if you take out Team Time trials.

What the hell happened to Cancellara in the Albi tt btw?

 

[El Pistolero]

Did you just discover that site and are now posting random tt comparisons

Still you are right its surprising. But 10-5 if you take out Team Time trials.

What the hell happened to Cancellara in the Albi tt btw?

He crashed if I remember correctly. And I had no point in comparing someone's time trials until recently because there has been a lot of discussion about who the better tt specialist is

 

[JA.Tri]

As far as I know in terms of gold medal success at the Worlds it's:

The Netherlands 7 - Australia 1



Scoreboard.

In reference to Elite Men's ITT: M Rogers 2003, 2004, 2005

 

[greenedge]

I think the Grenoble ITT route was good. Hilly. ToC Solvang route is also quite good. I think ITT's should be modelled on that. Wouldn't it be funny if Tony Martin wins a GT and can actually climb this. Next year i think Richie Porte would be able to finish in the top 3 as hillier courses suit him. And Belgium is hilly.

Hometown Favouritism.

Pinot FTW.

Would they do a TTT up here?

 

[khardung la]

I lived in Ponferrada 3 years.

The ITT is great in my opinion. Martin and Cancellara will do good and have their chance, since the first 30 km are not only flat but straight. The last 3 kms are a nightmare, really steep. They should try to balance those 10-12 minutes of hard climbing with the previous 45 in the flat or slight climb-up, no big deal. For me the difference is that instead of being sure that Cancellara, Wiggings or Martin will win, I can think of Contador and a bunch of others for the victory. That is good for cycling IMO. No one said that TT has to be flat, all the time.

The road championship circuit is not disappointing for me. I think many people complain because the surroundings of Ponferrada can be so much tougher and beautiful than the selected route, with different options for climbing 4-6 km at 9-10 grades. But anyway it is very very selective, and if it would be more probably the race would be a joke.

There is a short climb close to the Templar Castle pretty much like the one in Copenhagen this year. Then there is a 5 km climb of about 5% in average, never really steep, very constant and with very good asphalt. Then after a funny descent with some curves and after crossing a scenic dam and a tunnel they will climb about 1,5 kms with some stretches up to 10%, but in average maybe 6-6,5%. Then a fast 3 km descent to the finish line with a flat finish. Doing that 20 times makes it a selective route, way more then in Copenhagen, Australia or Madrid, to name a few of the last WC.

The kind of circuit where Gilbert, Contador, Valverde, Evans, Sagan, B-H, Sanchez, Wiggings, Schlecks and other 10 guys could win. No second tier guy will have many chances there, it is hard enough.

 

[rantanplan]

WC Ponferrada 2014. Altimetry. Route Circuit

Today the route circuit, profile of the 3 hills included:

http://gpcanaldecastilla.wordpress....del-mundial-ponferrada-2014-circuito-de-ruta/

From "Desde la Cuneta" cycling magazine and thanks to Emilio Villanueva (WC Ponferrada 2014 designer)

 

[rantanplan]

Definitly not for Cav

 

[Ferminal]

It's a bit better looking at it a second time. Most likely it is a sprint of 30 or so but at least it gives the attackers some chance. A bit like 2012 where Gilbert will have to survive a few kms after the end of the last climb, obviously Cauberg is a harder climb though.

 

[maltiv]

3700 meters of climbing, so definitely not a bunch sprint at least. Group of about 15 or a late attack to stick.