Well done with the pro teams

[auscyclefan94]

Being fast is not the same as being a sprinter. Van Avermaet isn't a pure sprinter, Kristoff sucks right now (he might become good, but right now the most he can aim at is a top 10 in some GT stages), and I reckon the last time Quinziato contested a mass sprint must have been as a junior or something. In light of that, not having lame sprinters and focusing your energies on other fields where you can actually contend (like stage races in the case of Geox) is a perfectly valid choice. And even then, if we're going to rate unproven fast riders as strong sprinters, why not rate Walker, Kump and Ratto?

You going to compare Kump, Walker and Ratto with Kristoff and Van avermaet? Good work einstein!

ACF, christ.

You need to check out the Volta a Portugal. It's a damn hard race. There are some damn good riders who do it. A lot of them ride in Portugal because the money is better than Spanish domestic racing, others because they were untouchable because of Puerto. The reputation of Portuguese cycling means that a lot of riders who are easily good enough to get out (cf the post earlier of André Cardoso) won't be looked at by the big teams. Iván Santaromita's biggest win is the Settimana Coppi e Bartali. Very good, but the main reason he won it was that Liquigas did a better TTT than Miche (he and Niemiec fought out the decisive break). Coppi e Bartali is just one of several buildup races for the Giro. The Volta a Portugal is the absolute pinnacle of the season for that scene, and there are lots of talented riders there. Blanco was so dominant this year that I was annoyed. He won both major MTFs (Senhora da Graça and Torre), and placed 2nd in the long ITT.

It's like the TDU argument all over again - the TDU has bigger names than the Volta, but it's a joke to consider it a tougher race. You seem to be too easily blinkered by presence of big names. Think of it as similar to the Giro, yea? The Italian teams, they plan out all year for that. So when the big guns roll into town, some of them aren't solely focused on the Giro because of other goals, and they get blown out. The Volta is similar but at a slightly lower level; Gilberto Simoni said he wouldn't come back, after being mercilessly pillaged by the domestic riders who fight all year for the Volta. 11 days of riding around in searing heat up mountains is not to be taken lightly, and the difficulty is a large reason why a lot of big names don't show up.

For reference, another former Volta a Portugal winner just had his first real year at the top level. He showed just what the standard of that race is. His name? Xavier Tondó. Hopefully I don't have to list what HE did in 2010, but needless to say it's bigger than most of the people who'll be slaving for Evans.

You need to put down the rose-coloured spectacles, and stop being so harsh on people who aren't in BMC unless you're prepared to take it. BMC have improved and they have some good riders. But you seem to artificially inflate their quality, as if they somehow absorb awesomeness from being around Evans. No amount of argument is going to persuade us that Tschopp is a better climber than Blanco after Tschopp, as a journeyman, picked up a brilliant Giro stage, while Blanco won one of the toughest races in the world four times, holding on and beating people who train all year for the race in the high mountains. No amount of argument is going to persuade us that Kristoff is better than Duarte, notwithstanding that they're not comparable in the slightest.

You hold such obvious double standards it makes you an easy target.

Ok maybe I was a bit harsh on the tour of portugal. I never tried to compare Duarte as he is a big talent but people knocking Kristoff is also wrong. I personally don't see the quality field in the Tour of portugal that you can say that Blanco is that good. I would agree that Geox have a better stage racing team (not way better), but clearly BMC are streaks ahead of Geox in all other areas.

I think ACF has simply looked at the idea that Geox have no classics guys and decided that this is a strategically safe place to make a stand.

From there he can keep calling BMC a team for classics and gts hence better.

After that come one or 2 unfair comments about the Volta and about bmc being better than the Basques

Personally though i think Geox's strenght in gts will more than make up for the deficit they have to BMC in classics, whos only real hope at a monument is Cuddles in liege.
Its not like BMC signed Cancellara.

Incidentally though i think Geox could do ok at Ardennes if they were invited and cared. Surely Menchov could compete, no?

This post does not even deserve a reply it is so stupid.

 

[Parrulo]

ACF, christ.

You need to check out the Volta a Portugal. It's a damn hard race. There are some damn good riders who do it. A lot of them ride in Portugal because the money is better than Spanish domestic racing, others because they were untouchable because of Puerto. The reputation of Portuguese cycling means that a lot of riders who are easily good enough to get out (cf the post earlier of André Cardoso) won't be looked at by the big teams. Iván Santaromita's biggest win is the Settimana Coppi e Bartali. Very good, but the main reason he won it was that Liquigas did a better TTT than Miche (he and Niemiec fought out the decisive break). Coppi e Bartali is just one of several buildup races for the Giro. The Volta a Portugal is the absolute pinnacle of the season for that scene, and there are lots of talented riders there. Blanco was so dominant this year that I was annoyed. He won both major MTFs (Senhora da Graça and Torre), and placed 2nd in the long ITT.

It's like the TDU argument all over again - the TDU has bigger names than the Volta, but it's a joke to consider it a tougher race. You seem to be too easily blinkered by presence of big names. Think of it as similar to the Giro, yea? The Italian teams, they plan out all year for that. So when the big guns roll into town, some of them aren't solely focused on the Giro because of other goals, and they get blown out. The Volta is similar but at a slightly lower level; Gilberto Simoni said he wouldn't come back, after being mercilessly pillaged by the domestic riders who fight all year for the Volta. 11 days of riding around in searing heat up mountains is not to be taken lightly, and the difficulty is a large reason why a lot of big names don't show up.

For reference, another former Volta a Portugal winner just had his first real year at the top level. He showed just what the standard of that race is. His name? Xavier Tondó. Hopefully I don't have to list what HE did in 2010, but needless to say it's bigger than most of the people who'll be slaving for Evans.

You need to put down the rose-coloured spectacles, and stop being so harsh on people who aren't in BMC unless you're prepared to take it. BMC have improved and they have some good riders. But you seem to artificially inflate their quality, as if they somehow absorb awesomeness from being around Evans. No amount of argument is going to persuade us that Tschopp is a better climber than Blanco after Tschopp, as a journeyman, picked up a brilliant Giro stage, while Blanco won one of the toughest races in the world four times, holding on and beating people who train all year for the race in the high mountains. No amount of argument is going to persuade us that Kristoff is better than Duarte, notwithstanding that they're not comparable in the slightest.

You hold such obvious double standards it makes you an easy target.

fells in love with libertine <3

You going to compare Kump, Walker and Ratto with Kristoff and Van avermaet? Good work einstein!

Ok maybe I was a bit harsh on the tour of portugal. I never tried to compare Duarte as he is a big talent but people knocking Kristoff is also wrong. I personally don't see the quality field in the Tour of portugal that you can say that Blanco is that good. I would agree that Geox have a better stage racing team (not way better), but clearly BMC are streaks ahead of Geox in all other areas.


This post does not even deserve a reply it is so stupid.

there are very few things about professional cycling that you seem to be able to see. i guess when libertine with one of the better posts i have seen in this forum can't change your mind. no1 can. our only hope now is that time will make you wiser. i guess. or that blanco rapes bmc on the giro xD

 

[Libertine Seguros]

You going to compare Kump, Walker and Ratto with Kristoff and Van avermaet? Good work einstein!

Kump is a huge talent.

Ok maybe I was a bit harsh on the tour of portugal. I never tried to compare Duarte as he is a big talent but people knocking Kristoff is also wrong. I personally don't see the quality field in the Tour of portugal that you can say that Blanco is that good. I would agree that Geox have a better stage racing team (not way better), but clearly BMC are streaks ahead of Geox in all other areas.

The thing with the Volta is that the Portuguese scene is so self-contained, for the reasons I outlined above. The race is a lot more hotly contested than you'd expect, and the riders a lot more talented than in pretty much any other self-contained scene bar the Colombian; those guys can't get out because of the negative stigma attached to the Portuguese scene, but can crush the likes of Cunego, Sella, Kashechkin and Simoni when August comes around... We forget how good a lot of the Puerto guys were pre-Puerto - like Blanco, Bernabéu, Zaballa, Santi Pérez, Jiménez, Plaza (top 5 at a GT!) and so forth. Zaballa won the Vuelta a Asturias last year, a mountainous stage race ahead of the likes of Intxausti and Mosquera. It's one of very few races that the Portuguese teams can get to outside their homeland. They're always all over it.

 

[Arnout]

Zaballa had a fair bit of luck though, it was only because Duarte (I think it was him) miscalculated that he could stay away from an early break.

 

[hfer07]

UCI/McQuaid just keep showing the world why they're so incompetent -How on earth a Team like GEOX-which is willing to sponsor cycling for the coming 4 to eight years gets overlooked by RS--which is likely to banish before July? apart from Codofis- I think it was expected to have BMC & Vascansoleil obtained Pro Licenses, as part of last year's compromise package deal.
I'm troubled by the decrease in French teams-not because they won't wet invited by ASO, but the fact that they're going to have the same situation in Spain-which is to have great riders looking elsewhere for contracts ...

 

[auscyclefan94]

Kump is a huge talent.

The comparison is still wrong...

The thing with the Volta is that the Portuguese scene is so self-contained, for the reasons I outlined above. The race is a lot more hotly contested than you'd expect, and the riders a lot more talented than in pretty much any other self-contained scene bar the Colombian; those guys can't get out because of the negative stigma attached to the Portuguese scene, but can crush the likes of Cunego, Sella, Kashechkin and Simoni when August comes around... We forget how good a lot of the Puerto guys were pre-Puerto - like Blanco, Bernabéu, Zaballa, Santi Pérez, Jiménez, Plaza (top 5 at a GT!) and so forth. Zaballa won the Vuelta a Asturias last year, a mountainous stage race ahead of the likes of Intxausti and Mosquera. It's one of very few races that the Portuguese teams can get to outside their homeland. They're always all over it .

Fair enough, I was just making judgments on particular riders in that particular year (i.e 2009 sinkewitz would of not been in that greater form after coming from suspension). But you would know best... I was probably being a bit harsh on Blanco and the Volta because people were clearly going out for BMC's squad overall and what they would send to particular races. This forum can get too ruthless at times.

 

[The Hitch]

This post does not even deserve a reply it is so stupid.

Why. Whats so stupid about it?

 

[hrotha]

You going to compare Kump, Walker and Ratto with Kristoff and Van avermaet? Good work einstein!

Why not? Van Avermaet is not really a sprinter, he'll sprint if there's no one else to do it but he'd rather not, you overrate Kristoff so much I think I might begin to hate him, and you just dropped Quinziato from the discussion without admitting your blunder. Meanwhile, Kump is an immensely talented rider, and also pretty fast, and Johnnie Walker got one or two top 10s in the Vuelta. I honestly don't see how they're worse than BMC's "sprinters." Care to enlighten me, Rousseau?

I mean, Van Avermaet is one of my favourite riders, but a sprinter he is not.

 

[The Hitch]

You overrate Kristoff so much I think I might begin to hate him.

Im very familiar with this idea. As good a way of choosing riders to cheer for as any

Care to enlighten me, Rousseau?

Why do you use Rousseau?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The comparison is still wrong...

Fair enough, I was just making judgments on particular riders in that particular year (i.e 2009 sinkewitz would of not been in that greater form after coming from suspension). But you would know best... I was probably being a bit harsh on Blanco and the Volta because people were clearly going out for BMC's squad overall and what they would send to particular races. This forum can get too ruthless at times.

2009 Sinkewitz also came 10th; while Cunego missed the top 10 entirely then went to romp to two mountaintop stage wins in the Vuelta. Rubén Plaza, lest we forget, was 5th in the Vuelta back in '05, and 12th in the Tour this year; he was 4th in the 2009 Volta.

The BMC problem is your own making. You overhype people beyond belief because they are on Evans' team, and snobbishly tear people down that aren't. Everybody else then dogpiles on the BMC guys that you're praising to the hilt, and are over-critical to balance it out.

This is how forum crap works. The truth is pretty much always somewhere in between the hysterics of the forum; strongly held opinion breeds strongly held counteropinion. You're a hysterical BMC lover, which breeds resentment towards BMC from those who disagree or are fed up of hearing your hyping them. The same thing happens to the Mollema Mafia, the California Apologists, the Cav Crusaders and also to me when I say something stupid like "abolish sprint stages entirely".

 

[hrotha]

Why do you use Rousseau?

Well, ACF used Einstein, and I had just written "care to enlighten me?", so I couldn't resist making such an incredibly lame joke.

 

[theyoungest]

The same thing happens to the Mollema Mafia, the California Apologists, the Cav Crusaders and also to me when I say something stupid like "abolish sprint stages entirely".

Or the Intxausti Intifada, of course

 

[Mambo95]

21 teams to the Tour, with FDJ, Cofidis and Eurocar taking the spots. No explanation necessary.

Why only 21 at the Tour? There were 22 this year and I would expect there will be again.

There's no way a team with a recent (and scandal free) winner and the 3rd (2nd?) place from 2010 aren't going to get a spot.

(They may kick out Astana again)

 

[Arnout]

I must have missed that. At least it was not as stupidly persistant as that TGBM stuff.

 

[The Hitch]

Well, ACF used Einstein, and I had just written "care to enlighten me?", so I couldn't resist making such an incredibly lame joke.

So you just picked a random braniac? Or is it because hes partly Swiss (Rousseau that is)

Or the Intxausti Intifada, of course

Nah. For Libertine its the Amets Awakening.

 

[c&cfan]

ACF doesnt know a thing about volta a portugal. big names are killed here...

guys

if contador is not there next year..

cant you see menchov wining the tour? he has a real solid career right? he climbs better and better..is TT is very good. and he can beat di luca in a sprint when the guy (di luca) has a leadout.

for me andy will never win a tour.lol with or without contador..
and you can bet, if frank shleck has a brain, he will atack andy, otherwise he will end is career and kill himself.

 

[The Hitch]

ACF doesnt know a thing about volta a portugal. big names are killed here...

guys

if contador is not there next year..

cant you see menchov wining the tour? he has a real solid career right? he climbs better and better..is TT is very good. and he can beat di luca in a sprint when the guy (di luca) has a leadout.

for me andy will never win a tour.lol with or without contador..
and you can bet, if frank shleck has a brain, he will atack andy, otherwise he will end is career and kill himself.

Nah. For me Schleck Samu and Basso are all in front of Menchov, when one considers the route.

 

[c&cfan]

samu is another guy that seems very solid. for me he is amazing, it's a shame that contador and valverde are also spanish otherwise samu would be god in spain.

basso is a wildcard. if contador isnt there, he has the potencial to kill them all.

 

[The Hitch]

samu is another guy that seems very solid. for me he is amazing, it's a shame that contador and valverde are also spanish otherwise samu would be god in spain.

basso is a wildcard. if contador isnt there, he has the potencial to kill them all.

Well it looks like it may be on Samus shoulders this time round if theres no Contador and Valverde for a year.

He was clearly the 3rd best climber at the Tour last year, and with no Conti, that could move him up to second best climber for 2011. He will lose time in the ttt but gain time in the tt on schleck, and if hes in contention, he might try it on a descent. With time bonuses he could give Schleck a run for his money, but unfortunately there wont be any.

 

[hrotha]

So you just picked a random braniac? Or is it because hes partly Swiss (Rousseau that is)

Nah, I picked a standard Enlightenment dude (yes, I regret to report that was the basis of the joke). I hesitated between choosing Rousseau or Voltaire, but I like Rousseau's name better (besides, it's at least tangentially related to cycling in that I know Florian Rousseau but I've never heard of any rider called Voltaire)

 

[auscyclefan94]

Why not? Van Avermaet is not really a sprinter, he'll sprint if there's no one else to do it but he'd rather not, you overrate Kristoff so much I think I might begin to hate him, and you just dropped Quinziato from the discussion without admitting your blunder. Meanwhile, Kump is an immensely talented rider, and also pretty fast, and Johnnie Walker got one or two top 10s in the Vuelta. I honestly don't see how they're worse than BMC's "sprinters." Care to enlighten me, Rousseau?

I mean, Van Avermaet is one of my favourite riders, but a sprinter he is not.

I am more likely to admit I am wrong than most of you on here no matter how obvious it is that I have proved you wrong. Kristo

So your over hyping a Kump so I might start to resent him just like david blanco! They are worse. Van avermaet has won stages of la vuelta, tour of belgium... kristoff has won national championships in a sprint against Hushovd when he was 19. Kristoff and van avermaet are far more formidable sprinters.

2009 Sinkewitz also came 10th; while Cunego missed the top 10 entirely then went to romp to two mountaintop stage wins in the Vuelta. Rubén Plaza, lest we forget, was 5th in the Vuelta back in '05, and 12th in the Tour this year; he was 4th in the 2009 Volta.

The BMC problem is your own making. You overhype people beyond belief because they are on Evans' team, and snobbishly tear people down that aren't. Everybody else then dogpiles on the BMC guys that you're praising to the hilt, and are over-critical to balance it out.

This is how forum crap works. The truth is pretty much always somewhere in between the hysterics of the forum; strongly held opinion breeds strongly held counteropinion. You're a hysterical BMC lover, which breeds resentment towards BMC from those who disagree or are fed up of hearing your hyping them. The same thing happens to the Mollema Mafia, the California Apologists, the Cav Crusaders and also to me when I say something stupid like "abolish sprint stages entirely".

- Cunego ain't no stage racer anymore.

Anyway, i kinda agree, though don't just put it all on me about the BMC hate. That is wrong. If I cause strong counter opinion or over hype riders then posters surely have the brain capacity to argue with out becoming too strong about the topic. This is just an opinion.

 

[rzombie1988]

for me andy will never win a tour.lol with or without contador..
and you can bet, if frank shleck has a brain, he will atack andy, otherwise he will end is career and kill himself.

Frank isn't going to attack Andy. Andy would probably give Frank the yellow jersey over himself if he could. Andy and Frank will be riding side by side as long as possible. Frank needs Andy more than Andy needs Frank at this point anyway.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I am more likely to admit I am wrong than most of you on here no matter how obvious it is that I have proved you wrong. Kristo

lol the more you post the more i think this guy has never watched a race outside of cadel evans, people target you cause your posts are 100% ignorant (however right you may feel you are). You talk down on the volta because you are not familiar with riders.
I imagine you are the spectator of McQuaid;'s dreams.. completely oblivious to races/riders non-PT / media hyped. Congrats.

- Cunego ain't no stage racer anymore.

Maybe a troll moment by I...
GT Count:
Cunego 1
Evans 0

Im very familiar with this idea. As good a way of choosing riders to cheer for as any

It's the reason I don't wanna see evans winning i think And I assume why you don't want gesink to win

Incidentally though i think Geox could do ok at Ardennes if they were invited and cared. Surely Menchov could compete, no?

he seems to have his peaks.
But I'm not sure he really cuts it in the classics. He has a decent sprint uphill, but I don't think he likes the continuous hills.

 

[theyoungest]

So you just picked a random braniac? Or is it because hes partly Swiss (Rousseau that is)

Come on, Hitch... didn't you study History? Rousseau, Enlightenment, it's really a no brainer

he seems to have his peaks.
But I'm not sure he really cuts it in the classics. He has a decent sprint uphill, but I don't think he likes the continuous hills.

Too nervous for ole Menchov. He did LBL this year, if I'm not much mistaken... I didn't see him though.

 

[auscyclefan94]

lol the more you post the more i think this guy has never watched a race outside of cadel evans, people target you cause your posts are 100% ignorant (however right you may feel you are). You talk down on the volta because you are not familiar with riders.
I imagine you are the spectator of McQuaid;'s dreams.. completely oblivious to races/riders non-PT / media hyped. Congrats.



Maybe a troll moment by I...
GT Count:
Cunego 1
Evans 0




It's the reason I don't wanna see evans winning i think And I assume why you don't want gesink to win



he seems to have his peaks.
But I'm not sure he really cuts it in the classics. He has a decent sprint uphill, but I don't think he likes the continuous hills.

Do you understand what anymore means?

It is not possible to be 100% ignorant and that comment also makes you look ignorant anyway as that is a totally illogical standpoint. You also don't mind chucking in an insult in a while when someone questions your credibility.