What a glorious day; Lance Armstrong stripped of titles

[JPM London]

To those saying this is a bad day for cycling - the worst thing that ever happened to cycling was Lance Armstrong.

QUOTE]

Thats not quite fair. You and I don't know the details on how doping worked in the late 90's/2000's. Its easy to look back now and say he was cheating but why pick on him? Why do people love Pantani yet loathe Armstrong? What about Tommy Simpson, a cult hero in the UK, but he doped - albeit with different chemicals to Lance & Co.

You ask anyone with no knowledge of cycling in the UK to name one race, and it'll be the Tour De France. That isn't Lance's doing alone. And if you ask for one rider, it'll be him. He took cycling to a whole new level in terms of global audience.

Outside of northern europe the general public of most countries have never heard of Paris Roubaix or even the Giro. He rissed the porfile of cycling, and inspried a lot of people. Its only a shame that he rode in a culture where everyone doped. He certainly shouldn't be villfied more than Bjarne Riis, Alberto Contador, Johan Bruyneel. What have they ever put back into the sport?

It's not about the dope - it's about the lying and intimidating. It's about fraud and corruption. In case you haven't noticed he's STILL lying and STILL intimidating - personally and through his lawyers. Still seems like he's got some kind of hold on the system he was part of corrupting so aptly...

In case you didn't notice JB might well be on his way out of the sport - well, any WADA compliant sport for that matter.

Riis doped, yes, along with somwhere between half and the whole of the peloton. Only one guy chased down other riders when talking about dope. Only one guy has litigated from one end of the world to the other and worked actively and hard on financially and otherwise ruining the lives of anybody willing to tell the truth or call him for what he was. That was not Riis... That was not any other of the scores of doped up riders. That was Armstrong...

Whichever way you try to turn this it will stink...

 

[lostintime]

And i said that is nothing to be proud of. It is no achievement at all. It still means he is dirt, a doper, a cheat and a fraud.

Then they were all "dirt" and all records be voided out. Pretend the era never happened! Good luck with that

 

[Mishrak]

To be fair, I won't feel right about this until I hear the evidence from USADA. This just stinks like another chess move to get out of check by Lance. Him losing his titles doesn't mean anything if everyone sees him as a victim. What needs to happen is the masses need to find out what he's done. THAT'S the real prize here.

I also don't think his Tour victories should be awarded to anyone else. Just leave them as asterisks or strikethroughs honestly. None of those other people deserve to wear those jerseys either. If someone could go through those years of Tour records with a great big eraser, no one would miss them.

 

[thehog]

To be fair, I won't feel right about this until I hear the evidence from USADA. This just stinks like another chess move to get out of check by Lance. Him losing his titles doesn't mean anything if everyone sees him as a victim. What needs to happen is the masses need to find out what he's done. THAT'S the real prize here.

I also don't think his Tour victories should be awarded to anyone else. Just leave them as asterisks or strikethroughs honestly. None of those other people deserve to wear those jerseys either. If someone could go through those years of Tour records with a great big eraser, no one would miss them.

It means something believe me.

And yes the evidence is coming....

 

[sniper]

That's what I said .. I guess you missed that part .... lol.

"They were are all doping, and it just so happened that Armstrong was the best of them"

I'm not a fan of Armstrong .... yet I am not in favor lynching people either especially when speaking of that era of cycling and the "mob mentality" of doping. Either you joined them or you were not a part of them. Look at the WHOLE picture , not just thru the eyes of blind hatred and fear. Or not. Choose.

you're a bit off.

After the 1998 Festina bombshell, there was no level playing field in 1999. Most were too scared to dope after the 1998 explosion and according to insiders there was even a sort of consensus growing among the members of the peloton that 1999 should be clean.

Too bad the guy with the jellow jersey tested positive only 1 week after the start of the 1999 Tour. It happened to be a guy who had just survived cancer miraculously and who happened to have a decent media appeal that the UCI wanted to profit from. So lucky for this guy, the UCI had his *** covered.

The scam was so obvious that all sincere intentions to race clean among many members of the peloton at the time were squashed in one go. It was the signal that you can still dope and that the UCI endulges it.

So it was Lance and the UCI who brought doping back at the forefront in 1999 in a short but very crucial timeframe, post-festina, in which the climate was in fact perfect for cycling to take the clean road.

Therefore, if you insist on claiming a level playing field (which you seem to do), at the very least don't claim it for 1999.

Here's a brilliant Kimmage interview on which the above analysis is based:

Paul Kimmage interview

 

[Cobblestoned]

His titles have not been stripped just yet.

Hello, dear old partycrusher.
They still got a lot to learn. But my fear again is, that most of 'em will never do and still hang on some leftover straws, like some useless USADA decisions.
The yearly counter-partys and those sad faces will be horrible again.

Now, for about the next 10-50 years, all the Fab12 and their sockpuppets will do is opening ASO's page, hoping that Lance's "one two three four five six seven" will be gone.
Will never happen, and you are one of a few who got it. No positive - no stripped off titles by the last and most important instance of the second most important race (behind Giro of course ).

Still like your Rationalität and mostly your heroic catlove. kudos again.
So here is a little Schiller for you, because I think you will understand.

"The most divine victory is forgiveness" - Friedrich Schiller

cobblestoned


PS: Now I will go one with my personal "Breivik to jail forever" party.
Those are real important things to celebrate.

PPS: Thank you for everything, Lance ! For every single moment and all the pain you gave to me. Appreciated.

 

[kurtinsc]

While I'm sure Lance doped... I just think it's funny that the new TDF winners we have as a result of this are:

Zulle - admitted EPO user
Ulrich x 3 - suspended for doping
Basso - suspended for doping
Kloden - suspected and fined for doping
Beloki - suspected of doping, but aquitted.

 

[python]

time to see the light, mate !

 

[Caruut]

He didn't get caught, he finished all those races, while being tested, he beat the system, I'm not saying it's right, but he remained in, and finished, and won those tours, you can never change that or take it away from him

He didn't get caught at the time, but I think this sends out a strong signal. Even when someone thinks they have gotten away with it, they now know that they may never be in the clear. Taking something undetectable, knowing when your tests are or having positives covered up is no longer enough to know that you are truly safe from justice. The idea that even after you've retired you could still be caught out seems a pretty powerful deterrent to me - certainly better than anything else the cycling authorities have managed to conjure up. Sure, it would have been better if he'd been caught on the 3rd of July, 1999 but that doesn't mean getting caught now has no effect.

 

[Cobblestoned]

you're a bit off.

After the 1998 Festina bombshell, there was no level playing field in 1999. Most were too scared to dope after the 1998 explosion and according to insiders there was even a sort of consensus growing among the members of the peloton that 1999 should be clean.

Too bad the guy with the jellow jersey tested positive only 1 week after the start of the 1999 Tour. It happened to be a guy who had just survived cancer miraculously and who happened to have a decent media appeal that the UCI wanted to profit from. So lucky for this guy, the UCI had his *** covered.

The scam was so obvious that all sincere intentions to race clean among many members of the peloton at the time were squashed in one go. It was the signal that you can still dope and that the UCI endulges it.

So it was Lance and the UCI who brought doping back at the forefront in 1999 in a short but very crucial timeframe, post-festina, in which the climate was in fact perfect for cycling to take the clean road.

Therefore, IF you insist on claiming a level playing field (which you seem to do), at the very least don't claim it for 1999.

Here's a brilliant Kimmage interview on which the above analysis is based:

So now, in the Fab12s world, everything is in order again.
Spot on, Herr Scharfschütze.

Why did lostintime even try.....to break into that world of order, objectivity and undisputable facts.
Should have stayed on earth and leave HIS opinion there.

PS: I'm still too scared to dope, and still impressed how Lance (re)invented doping and EPO. lol

 

[sniper]

So now, in the Fab12s world, everything is in order again.
Spot on, Herr Scharfschütze.

Why did lostintime even try.....to break into that world of order, objectivity and undisputable facts.
Should have stayed on earth and leave HIS opinion there.

PS: I'm still too scared to dope, and still impressed how Lance (re)invented doping and EPO. lol

If there is any merit to the level-playing-field argument (and I'm not saying there isn't), Lance must now be particularly frustrated. "Why me?"

More seriously, the "they all doped" argument is why the focus should not be solely on Lance right now (he's going to have to take heavy punches from different angles anyway), but should rapidly shift towards the facilitators.

As I said plenty of times, I'm not feeling any Schadenfreude in regards to Lance getting his *** spanked all over the place right now.
My satisfaction will come when, and only if, Verdrugthem goes down.

 

[lostintime]

you're a bit off.


Therefore, if you insist on claiming a level playing field (which you seem to do), at the very least don't claim it for 1999.

Facts ? Kimmage knows ALL ? hahahahaha ! This forum and the world is full of "facts" ... aka .. opinions. lol

And yes .. that's MY opinion and it's a valuable as anyone elses.

 

[lemoogle]

More seriously, the "they all doped" argument is why the focus should not be solely on Lance right now (he's going to have to take heavy punches from different angles anyway), but should rapidly shift towards the facilitators.

Agreed, although let's hope that all this focus on an old case doesn't divert attention away from the current cases/sky

 

[lostintime]

Yep ...

You know that wonderful saying ..... "The Fish rots (stinks) from the head down" !!!!!!


Well . . the world of cycling powers that be is pretty smelly

 

[Racelap]

For some reason I'm really looking forward to seeing Phil Liggett's response to this. He's gonna have to hit the bottle pretty hard to cope with this.

I don't think alzheimer's patients are allowed to have alcohol because it interferes with their medications.

 

[sniper]

Facts ? Kimmage knows ALL ? hahahahaha ! This forum and the world is full of "facts" ... aka .. opinions. lol

And yes .. that's MY opinion and it's a valuable as anyone elses.

strong rebuttal

 

[CosmicRocker]

sniper:
Too bad the guy with the jellow jersey tested positive only 1 week after the start of the 1999 Tour. It happened to be a guy who had just survived cancer miraculously and who happened to have a decent media appeal that the UCI wanted to profit from. So lucky for this guy, the UCI had his *** covered.

The scam was so obvious that all sincere intentions to race clean among many members of the peloton at the time were squashed in one go. It was the signal that you can still dope and that the UCI endulges it.

So it was Lance and the UCI who brought doping back at the forefront in 1999 in a short but very crucial timeframe, post-festina, in which the climate was in fact perfect for cycling to take the clean road.

If this is true, and it must be, cause Tyler Hamilton said it was, they need to strip the winners of the Green Jersey, Polka Dot Jersey . . . . heck, just put an asterisk in the record books: "The Tour was suspended from 1999 - 2005."

If everyone was cheating, who should the winner be?

 

[rickshaw]

This could be the start of something.

Facts ? Kimmage knows ALL ? hahahahaha ! that's MY opinion and it's a valuable as anyone elses.

No its not. You are a nobody who spends too much time in front of a computer screen, not an expert on anything. You could render an opinion on my high blood pressure medication, but it would be as worthless as your opinions rendered above because you have no credentials, no expertise, no experience, no access to factual data. No offense.

It is generally accepted that when a defendant refuses to submit to the legal process and defend against the facts presented he / she is the same as guilty. "Your honor, I do not accept your right to fine me for speeding." It do not fly.

I'm afraid the recent events are the end of nothing. The nature of the UCI will not change over night. It does not operate under the rule of law. It is personality driven and that personality has not yet gone away. The LA defenders will will hate anyone who breaks silence, or "outs" doping. In the past this was because they were wrong, now because they are right. Too many people have too much to loose.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

Until the stable is completely cleaned out it will always smell. Start with the biggest and then the rest.

UCI next. Anti-doping to an independent.

The fans should demand that the sport be cleaned out. Moaning about the damage this has done is not to solve the problem but prolong it.

Real fans of cycling have long recognised there is a doping problem in sports.

Crying that stripping and life time banning Armstrong wont change anything palys directly intot he hands of thse int he sport now who continue this corruptness.

Catching Armstrong sends out the strongest possible message to those who dope or are thinking of doping.

Best post yet.

 

[sniper]

...
And yes .. that's MY opinion and it's a valuable as anyone elses.

No its not.

(10 chars)

 

[jcjackcav7@gmail.com]

I almost did a cartwheel this morning when I read this news. For a while there, I was wondering if the forces of corruption might be going to win after-all.

So glad to see that Lance has been taken down, finally.

Is this going to help to change the doping culture do you think? Will it have any interesting effects on cycling?

I am glad too because he is such a mean and spiteful black hearted person. I do not think this helps the sport though so for that reason it is a kind of empty victory.

 

[Benotti69]

Yep ...

You know that wonderful saying ..... "The Fish rots (stinks) from the head down" !!!!!!


Well . . the world of cycling powers that be is pretty smelly

and boy did your hero stink

 

[Clemson Cycling]

I am glad too because he is such a mean and spiteful black hearted person. I do not think this helps the sport though so for that reason it is a kind of empty victory.

Your username is such an epic fail

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Your username is such an epic fail

Haha, did not even notice that. Could have been worse I guess. Could have been something like

P@55word23

 

[mikeNphilly]

So a question to both the anti-Lance and pro-lance people out there. Where do you guys go from here? Do you continue these threads(I'm sure for the next few days there will be some back and forth.), but after a month, 2 weeks, 3 months..when do the posts stop talking about Lance?