What a glorious day; Lance Armstrong stripped of titles

[simo1733]

To those saying this is a bad day for cycling - the worst thing that ever happened to cycling was Lance Armstrong.

QUOTE]

Thats not quite fair. You and I don't know the details on how doping worked in the late 90's/2000's. Its easy to look back now and say he was cheating but why pick on him? Why do people love Pantani yet loathe Armstrong? What about Tommy Simpson, a cult hero in the UK, but he doped - albeit with different chemicals to Lance & Co.

You ask anyone with no knowledge of cycling in the UK to name one race, and it'll be the Tour De France. That isn't Lance's doing alone. And if you ask for one rider, it'll be him. He took cycling to a whole new level in terms of global audience.

Outside of northern europe the general public of most countries have never heard of Paris Roubaix or even the Giro. He rissed the porfile of cycling, and inspried a lot of people. Its only a shame that he rode in a culture where everyone doped. He certainly shouldn't be villfied more than Bjarne Riis, Alberto Contador, Johan Bruyneel. What have they ever put back into the sport?

So what if he did all those things you say.That doesn't make him above the law.
After the Festina affair, the French criminalised doping, and Lance had an oppurtunity to be a leader of a cleaner sport.Instead he de-camped to Spain and carried on doping.
In 99 he had a positive test covered up by the UCI.This was the start of the doping arms race which made a mockery of a decade of Tour de France results.

 

[patrick767]

If they do end up getting stripped, it means Ulrich will be one of the most winning tour riders ever... And that Kloden will have won the tour
...
By the way, i find it to be a absolute joke that they are stripping him of his titels now, im 99% sure he did cheat, but im just as sure that everyone else in top 10 did. Why replace 1 cheater with another?, where is the fair part of going only for 1 person, when most of them cheated.

However people feel about it, there isn't really a "fair" part. Assuming they go forward with stripping Armstrong's titles, all they will do is hand them to other dopers. That's victory? That's a happy day for cycling? It just seems sad to me and a reminder of the huge double standard going on here.

What would happen if Ullrich and his old teams were investigated as vigorously as the USADA has investigated Armstrong? Yes, they were investigated, but not on this scale. How many other riders would from that era would look clean under such scrutiny? I would guess very, very few. It doesn't make what any of the doping riders did right, but you're correct in saying that people are rejoicing in taking titles from one doper and giving them to another. Welcome to the clinic though. Forum favorites accused of doping are treated much differently than unpopular riders.

I don't think most nations would ever investigate their past champions so vigorously. You think Spain would? hahahahahaha.... look how they dealt with the Contador charges. And did they ever want to investigate Indurain, a man who won 5 TdFs and who anyone who follows cycling closely knows damn well was taking EPO just like the rest of the top riders of his time. Why was there no huge investigation to find evidence of team doping and take his titles? We know it went on. Why do so many of the same people who don't seem to care about Indurain's drug fueled victories howl about Armstrong day after day?

Something tells me if Armstrong were Italian, Spanish, or any of a number of other nationalities we never would have had such a thorough investigation. Sweep it under the rug. Protect your national heroes.

 

[Benotti69]

So a question to both the anti-Lance and pro-lance people out there. Where do you guys go from here? Do you continue these threads(I'm sure for the next few days there will be some back and forth.), but after a month, 2 weeks, 3 months..when do the posts stop talking about Lance?

Are you concerned that the threads might end?

The Clinic is full of others, not just the record breaking 7 time DQ in a row Tour de France cyclist Armstrong.

 

[patrick767]

So what if he did all those things you say.That doesn't make him above the law.
After the Festina affair, the French criminalised doping, and Lance had an oppurtunity to be a leader of a cleaner sport.Instead he de-camped to Spain and carried on doping.
In 99 he had a positive test covered up by the UCI.This was the start of the doping arms race which made a mockery of a decade of Tour de France results.

Oh please. The top riders were doped to the gills on EPO throughout the '90s. It didn't suddenly appear with Armstrong.

 

[Benotti69]

Whine whine.

There will be no handing over.

ASO will do nothing. If anything an * will place next to the name.

But there will be no winner of the TdF from 99-05. End off.

Boring and a waste of time talking aobut it.

Ullrich has stated doesn't want them. Others i suggest are the same.

 

[richtea]

Are you concerned that the threads might end?

The Clinic is full of others, not just the record breaking 7 time DQ in a row Tour de France cyclist Armstrong.

It has to be some sort of record doesn't it? Of the top of my head, I can't think of any sportsman who has lost anywhere close to the amount of results as a result of doping, as LA will have.

 

[mikeNphilly]

Not that they will end, just that there is not anything else to talk about. He won 0 Tours, he is retired, he was sanctioned by his governing body(banned for life) just wondering what else there is to debate. Pro-Lance people can't say he did nothing, since it is fact he did. Anti-Lance people have nothing else to really push for being taken away, maybe Livestrong hate I guess...just wondering what else there is to debate.

 

[lemoogle]

Something tells me if Armstrong were Italian, Spanish, or any of a number of other nationalities we never would have had such a thorough investigation. Sweep it under the rug. Protect your national heroes.

If he was british noone would ever have doubted him.

 

[Iker_Baqueiro]

unless you have a time machine and can go back and remove him from the race before it finishes, you can't take it away. he experienced it, he was the one standing on the podium in yellow, 7 times
as much as I hate the fact that a doped up tri-geek won, he did it.

You are full of sh!t dude. And you say you are not a fan of armstrong. What if you were.

This is a great day for cycling. Cheating does not pay

 

[Mr.38%]

There will be no handing over.

ASO will do nothing. If anything an * will place next to the name.

But there will be no winner of the TdF from 99-05. End off.

Boring and a waste of time talking aobut it.

Ullrich has stated doesn't want them. Others i suggest are the same.

Ekimov will take 'em.

 

[Greisty]

I don't mean for this to be a perjorative question, and maybe somebody's already answered it in the forum, but can someone explain to me how USADA is able to go after all seven Tours when the statute of limitations only goes back eight years?

 

[ManInFull]

I don't like Lance, never been a fan, but for the life of me I can not figure out how this can be good news, not to mention the waste of tax dollars in a time of need. and all of the inaccurate headlines from bandwagon jumpers is disgusting. sad, sad day for cycling. maybe some good 'ole Spanish deal making in the Vuelta today will cheer me up...

It's a good day because we've been telling to folks for years to not believe Lance. This validates what we though was true.

And, please take your "waste of tax dollars" elsewhere. It's old.

Cycling will survive.

 

[Markyboyzx6r]

Is it a great day? I'm not so sure. I have the horrible feeling that Armstrong has played this one really well.

Like Benotti69 says, where are the journalists? Where are the articles saying they've known it for years but couldn't write about it? What's Armstrong going to do now - sue them? Fat chance. Will someone make a documentary about Armstrong, the EPO era and all that happened within it? No hope.

The comments and tweets from current professionals tell you everything you need to know about professional cycling.

They think we must be mugs. I say stop supporting this crooked little sport until the UCI is replaced.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Lia Hervey ‏@SkyNewsOlympic
BREAKING: Lance Armstrong receives lifetime ban for doping and is officially stripped of his all of his titles from 1998 onwards.

 

[silverrocket]

I also don't think his Tour victories should be awarded to anyone else. Just leave them as asterisks or strikethroughs honestly. None of those other people deserve to wear those jerseys either. If someone could go through those years of Tour records with a great big eraser, no one would miss them.

I agree. As much as I would love to have Jan become a multiple TdF winner, they should remove Lance as winner for those 7 years, then leave it blank. There is a strange precedent set by NOT doing this for Landis and Contador, however. Schleck and Pereiro should not have been given those titles. Neither really embraced it as a true TdF win anyway.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

@SkyOrla: USADA also demands 'forfeiture of any medals, titles, winnings, finishes, points and prizes' won by Armstrong since August 1998

That could be pretty costly...

 

[Angliru]

That's what I said .. I guess you missed that part .... lol.

"They were are all doping, and it just so happened that Armstrong was the best of them"

I'm not a fan of Armstrong .... yet I am not in favor lynching people either especially when speaking of that era of cycling and the "mob mentality" of doping. Either you joined them or you were not a part of them. Look at the WHOLE picture , not just thru the eyes of blind hatred and fear. Or not. Choose.

I'm at a loss how you can associate "lynching" with this case. Armstrong has skated by while others have paid for their indiscretions and now that he's finally facing justice many are claiming it's unfair.

 

[shawnrohrbach]

Time to move on......

 

[silverrocket]

Ekimov will take 'em.

Good one!________

 

[silverrocket]

I think it's a bad day for cycling in the short term (in the mainstream media our sport does not look very good today), but will result in much better days for cycling in the future. It's like taking one step backwards to finally allow us to take two steps forward.

 

[Clemson Cycling]

@SkyOrla: USADA also demands 'forfeiture of any medals, titles, winnings, finishes, points and prizes' won by Armstrong since August 1998

That could be pretty costly...

It probably does not compare to the legal bills he has been paying recently.

 

[Clemson Cycling]

I think it's a bad day for cycling in the short term (in the mainstream media our sport does not look very good today), but will result in much better days for cycling in the future. It's like taking one step backwards to finally allow us to take two steps forward.

Do you honestly believe that after watching Sky at the Tour this year? That team was every bit as dominate as USPS were in their prime. I thought we moved on after Landis, then we got Contador. I thought we moved on after Contador, and then we got Sky. It is not going to ever end.

 

[Turner29]

This. It is not a day to celebrate whether you dislike Armstrong or not. Cycling is once again the big loser here and its very depressing whichever way you look at it.

In the end, Cycling is a winner. Would you rather further cover-ups of cheating?

 

[frenchfry]

I don't mean for this to be a perjorative question, and maybe somebody's already answered it in the forum, but can someone explain to me how USADA is able to go after all seven Tours when the statute of limitations only goes back eight years?

Because they are pretty sharp cookies.

Also because of the conspiracy by Armstrong and cohorts to cover up the trafficking, encouraging, and administering. This will be the really interesting part when the truth comes into the public domain.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

It probably does not compare to the legal bills he has been paying recently.

True though I get the impression this is only the start of the legal bills he is going to have to pay.