What a glorious day; Lance Armstrong stripped of titles

[piemonster]

truly regrettable and shameful what they are doing with him!
That really shows how much humans are too tiny and mediocre. Lance: IGNORE THEM!
The doping can make you win ONE race, IMPROVE a brand, but certainly DOES NOT BUILD 15 YEARS OF GLORY AND SUCCESSES IN SPORT.

A surprising perception, I'd have thought a high tech well planned doping culture would have produced exactly what you say it wouldn't.

 

["Jeff"]

After the 1998 Festina bombshell, there was no level playing field in 1999. Most were too scared to dope after the 1998 explosion and according to insiders there was even a sort of consensus growing among the members of the peloton that 1999 should be clean.

Too bad the guy with the jellow jersey tested positive only 1 week after the start of the 1999 Tour. It happened to be a guy who had just survived cancer miraculously and who happened to have a decent media appeal that the UCI wanted to profit from. So lucky for this guy, the UCI had his *** covered.

The scam was so obvious that all sincere intentions to race clean among many members of the peloton at the time were squashed in one go. It was the signal that you can still dope and that the UCI endulges it.

So it was Lance and the UCI who brought doping back at the forefront in 1999 in a short but very crucial timeframe, post-festina, in which the climate was in fact perfect for cycling to take the clean road.

Therefore, if you insist on claiming a level playing field (which you seem to do), at the very least don't claim it for 1999.

Here's a brilliant Kimmage interview on which the above analysis is based:

This is exactly how I feel too.

Too bad Armstrong arrived, just after what happened in 1998.

 

[frenchfry]

Keep in mind there are companies that anyone can hire that offer blog commenting services. They hire a bunch of people to post some variations on an approved theme. Wonderboy's team is not above doing this. So, what's real commentary and what isn't? Very hard to know.

Finally, that's barely 24 hours into the first full news cycle. As the facts come out, I think it will be progressively more difficult for really passive viewers to hang onto the myth. And then there's the psychology of the news. Few are okay with admitting mistakes even to themselves, so switching from the yellow band faithful to an angered proletariat might take a while.

When I first saw the news of Armstrong's refusal to go to arbitration it was about 2am EST in the US. The comments sections were already flooded with what were obvious paid service BS. The two main themes were bashing the writer of the article (if at all critical of Armstrong) and making ludicrous statements about USADA.

It would be nice to get some proof that in fact Armstrong and his paid liars are using such a service to perpetuate the myth and attack any detractors.

 

[ebandit]

Glory

Jeff..........Your Experience Mirrors My Own Watching 7 B O R I N G
TDF's Hoping that Anyone But Pharmstrong would Win

no Wonder I am Happy to see the Wicked Witch.................Dead!

however I was Struck by just how Deep into His Reserves lance could Dig
one Year atop Hautacom He was completely Gaunt..Ashen Faced...Spent

it's Not just His Rivals / All Us Fans that He Cheated but He Cheated Himself
All that Effort taken Away..........but He had to Win?

I would Not Normally Gloat I can Forgive Dopers such as Vino Contador Valverde et al I Cheer when They Ride Hard after All They only Cheated

I am Most Angry about the Myth Constructed by Armstrong.Com......now
that's Busted.........a Glorious Day!

 

[the big ring]

ugh

We're not meant to comment, I think, but I agree with whoever mentioned your ... capitalising habit. Humans read by recognising word patterns, not by reading the words themselves. Your capitalising seems to be trying to draw attention to yourself, but also makes what you type really difficult to read. And difficult (for me at any rate) to respect.

Personally I'd like to read it, and am asking you to consider those of us that do not want to ignore you and just type normally.

Thanks

 

[SergeDeM]

I agree with vacating the titles of Lance is stripped.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat..._everyone_was_chating_from_1999_to_2005_.html

 

[jonny testaronny]

To those saying this is a bad day for cycling - the worst thing that ever happened to cycling was Lance Armstrong.

His outrageous doping fueled material success contributed mightily to an environment in which all the pros felt they had to dope. He opened the fanbase for cycling to USAns who knew nothing about cycling (not in and of itself negative) and caused media attention to focus excessively on a particular tour, to the detriment of other tours, and other sorts of races. The bad ocurred when the regulatory forces decided to turn a blind eye because they preferred to ride on the coattails. They chose short term riches over the health of the sport, and the dismal situation now, in which all riders are supposed to be dopers unless proven clean, is the consequence. The iconic fraud around which all of this was based is Lance Armstrong, and it will eventually be positive that even some half-assed steps towards exposing that fraud have been taken.

I know this is late, but really wanted to +100 it. About as pithy and direct a way to put it as I've seen.

 

[TubularBills]

Who cares who won now. That era is tainted. The riders have themselves to blame. The current crop are a joke for not coming out and condemning Armstrong, but we know why they dont.

I say strike Armstrong's name off and leave it blank.

+1

Maybe just leave a black rectangle imprinted with 28.

ASO and the riders donate those victories to 'awareness.'

Force LA to donate the retrieved winnings to an actual cancer research NGO.

A dark reminder of a lost decade and the depth of depravity.

 

[lostintime]

No its not. You are a nobody who spends too much time in front of a computer screen, not an expert on anything. You could render an opinion on my high blood pressure medication, but it would be as worthless as your opinions rendered above because you have no credentials, no expertise, no experience, no access to factual data. No offense.

It is generally accepted that when a defendant refuses to submit to the legal process and defend against the facts presented he / she is the same as guilty. "Your honor, I do not accept your right to fine me for speeding." It do not fly.

I'm afraid the recent events are the end of nothing. The nature of the UCI will not change over night. It does not operate under the rule of law. It is personality driven and that personality has not yet gone away. The LA defenders will will hate anyone who breaks silence, or "outs" doping. In the past this was because they were wrong, now because they are right. Too many people have too much to loose.

If my and other opinions mean "nothing" ... you sure had a lot of "nothing" to say about nothing.

And who are "you" ... ? ... but yet another aSSumptive internet master-debater and rear end sniffer of "the righteous" .

How's the ol' BP doin' now ?

 

[Greisty]

Reading now that Livestrong donations are up. Do you guys think this could be some kind of behind the scenes attempt to make the reaction seem more positive than it is? Kind of like the bots and fake bloggers?

 

[wagman67]

Although I am a Lance fan, I am not a Lance defender. I see this whole issue as far from over....well, it may be for Lance, but:

There are still people fighting the charges, so the CAS will still hear the 'evidence' that USADA has been keeping under lock and key.

I am most curious about the supposed cyclists who had agreed to testify against Lance and admit they doped, but accept a lesser charge and come out looking like heroes.

Is that deal off the table? If so, should they now not be charged with doping, if they have admitted to doing so already in testimony?

If the deal is still on the table as it also relates to the other defendants, doesn't it make it look more like a witch hunt if you don't punish those riders as fully as you would Lance or any of a number of riders recently, such as Contador? I know I would be one pi$$ed off rider if I got the shaft, while others get off with a pat on the back.

This is going to be interesting to see how it plays out. So many scenarios and so many ways people may have screwed themself. I think Lance may have not fought this, because he things the UCI will challenge it and let him retain those titles...if they don't, he screwed himself. Have those 'untainted' riders unnecessarily admitted to doping, and screwed themselves? Has USADA gone too far in it's 'fight' and overreached its authority?

Probably the biggest question when dealing with a 'conspiracy' charge...how far up did it go, and was USADA aiming much higher than Lance?

It's gonna be fun and intriguing to watch.

Just sayin'.

 

[SilentAssassin]

I don't think so, I think if they strip Lance of titles, Ullrich deserves those wins. Jan raced really well in those years, and he should not be discounted. Unless they have proof Ullrich cheated, then they should put him at the #1 spot.

I mean if you need to put vacant, then they might as well leave all winners vacant since Merckx's time, because most winners have had some kind of cheating connection surrounding them.

 

[zigmeister]

I know this is late, but really wanted to +100 it. About as pithy and direct a way to put it as I've seen.

Incredible, the number of blind groupies Lance still has, looking at some reader comments and also Strava.

Btw, what a pity USADA has no jurisdiction to ban Juan Pelota from STRAVA and take away his KOM's

What is incredible is the complete lack of any resemblance of due process.

It is almost like calling you a child molester (yes, I know we are talking criminal issues, not a civil issue between Armstrong/USADA), saying we know you are a molester, someone told us this.

If you don't respond within xxx days, you are going to be found guilty. You scream and proclain your innocence, yet now everybody just thinks you are some child molester, innocent or guilty. Doesn't matter. Oh, but a few people told authorities you did it. They are also child molesters by the way that helped authorities.

Good enough...what, you don't want to answer us and talk about this? You are now guilty.

The only difference is, USADA and Tygart (thank god), don't have the ability to throw him in prison, but you know they wish they could.

Done...case over. You must be guilty.

That is great due process and fairness don't you think?

The issue for me is not whether he doped or not (likely did), but the pathetic process they call arbitration and how completely biased and predictable the ending was going to be from the start. I said it for months now the exact same thing.

 

[Benotti69]

fanboy obfuscation

This went to an American court that Amrstrong is very happy to use every day to sue people who try and use the word 'live' and 'strong' in their businesses or accused him of doping, but when Judge Sparks threw out his claim of USADA and no due process we hear 'witch hunt'.

Armstrong is one of the most litigous sports celebrities ever, but when it doesn't work to his benefit, all we hear is ' no due process' and 'witch hunt'.

Shows how pathetic the whole Armstrong entourage are.

 

[the big ring]

What is incredible is the complete lack of any resemblance of due process.
<revolting analogy>

except there's no direct physical improvement visible based on the activities in your perverted example.

whereas lance, a very ordinary run of the mill bike rider became a one hit wonder, 7 times. even without eye witnesses, as gustav larrson says

“It is quite obvious that Armstrong has doped,” he told a Swedish newspaper. Last week Lance Armstrong was stripped of his seven Tour de France titles and given a lifetime ban, after he decline to challenge doping charges brought against him by the USADA.

“I do not think there is anyone in the cycling world to believe that he has been clean throughout their careers,” Larsson,who rides for Vacansoleil-DCM, told aftonbladet.se.

 

[CharacterFirst]

What is incredible is the complete lack of any resemblance of due process.

It is almost like calling you a child molester (yes, I know we are talking criminal issues, not a civil issue between Armstrong/USADA), saying we know you are a molester, someone told us this.

If you don't respond within xxx days, you are going to be found guilty. You scream and proclain your innocence, yet now everybody just thinks you are some child molester, innocent or guilty. Doesn't matter. Oh, but a few people told authorities you did it. They are also child molesters by the way that helped authorities.

Good enough...what, you don't want to answer us and talk about this? You are now guilty.

The only difference is, USADA and Tygart (thank god), don't have the ability to throw him in prison, but you know they wish they could.

Done...case over. You must be guilty.

That is great due process and fairness don't you think?

The issue for me is not whether he doped or not (likely did), but the pathetic process they call arbitration and how completely biased and predictable the ending was going to be from the start. I said it for months now the exact same thing.

Well. If you are clean, you defend yourself in the arbitration.

It was LA that refused to go through the proper process. No one to blame that on but himself.

 

[CharacterFirst]

Armstrong is one of the most litigous sports celebrities ever, but when it doesn't work to his benefit, all we hear is ' no due process' and 'witch hunt'.

I don't doubt this at all.

Do you have any link of summarized info that shows the litigious nature of LA. Say a list of who he has sued or threatened to sue?

I would like to have that info to back up this statement when I make it in other public forums etc.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Reading now that Livestrong donations are up. Do you guys think this could be some kind of behind the scenes attempt to make the reaction seem more positive than it is? Kind of like the bots and fake bloggers?

No, that's just another proof of the old saying: "All publicity is good publicity".

 

[iZnoGouD]

Personally, I make a way out of this discussion as its Lance: I give up!

Each with their idea. When there are entities and alleged "evidence" involved, the easier it is to pull to the side of the prosecution ... The "work" is done and so donkeys are those who defend a man who, besides a great athlete is also a great example of strength and determination ...

Honestly Lance could come up now (or later) assume that it's all true, that the great doped. My admiration will always have. For one thing is certain, doped or not, has done more any other cyclist
More than many, although they have lots of money and power, never did anything to help others.

 

[Benotti69]

I don't doubt this at all.

Do you have any link of summarized info that shows the litigious nature of LA. Say a list of who he has sued or threatened to sue?

I would like to have that info to back up this statement when I make it in other public forums etc.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ong-s-trademark-bullying-record-revealed.html

http://byliner.com/alex-heard/stories/livestrong-s-trademark-bullying-record-revealed

Emma O'Reilly and Mike Anderson can testify to the bullying of Armstrong and his threat of financial ruin.

 

[Benotti69]

fanboy whinge

There are plenty of posts pointing out the time lne of when the evidence will be released.

I understand it is hard to read through the tears but there is also a thread started called 'The Evidence'.

Keep checking back in your more composed times and you wil be able to read it in all its brilliant and illuminating detail the evidence that Armstrong cheated, doped and had the help of UCI/ASO/French Government.

 

[Benotti69]

No, that's just another proof of the old saying: "All publicity is good publicity".

It is also LieStrong saying it so not necessarily true.

 

[iZnoGouD]

how can you convince someone that is a doper? because i just can't haha

 

[Benotti69]

how can you convince someone that is a doper? because i just can't haha

If the World Anti Doping Agency are convinced of his doping. That is good enough.

If Pat McQuaid is trying to cover it up that is also evidence that he doped.

 

[CharacterFirst]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ong-s-trademark-bullying-record-revealed.html

http://byliner.com/alex-heard/stories/livestrong-s-trademark-bullying-record-revealed

Emma O'Reilly and Mike Anderson can testify to the bullying of Armstrong and his threat of financial ruin.

Excellent. Thanks.