What a glorious day; Lance Armstrong stripped of titles

[the big ring]

Why do people harp on about this being "bad for cycling". Wake up!

Today and tomorrow, millions of people will jump on their bikes and ride, and enjoy cycling, and even competitive cycling, and it will not matter one jot to them what USADA do for their job or how they do it?

 

[thehog]

Worth watching : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtWJ4sPwlmg&sns=em

This is now its being presented in the news. Which is great !

 

[Paco_P]

but for the life of me I can not figure out how this can be good news, not to mention the waste of tax dollars in a time of need.

Preventing and disciplining frauds is one of the most basic functions of government. It helps preserve the social order and keep the community healthy. It seems to me a reasonable use of tax dollars.

In any case this "waste of tax dollars" line is aimed at LA's support base, which, like it or not, is mostly right wing in outlook. His story fits very well into the individualist, made it ourselves free from government interference, we are survivors and fighter morality tale the US right preaches. The waste of tax dollars is just a throwaway line that works with those with the right political alignment. Yet another example of LA's cynicism.

 

[pugdog]

Preventing and disciplining frauds is one of the most basic functions of government. It helps preserve the social order and keep the community healthy. It seems to me a reasonable use of tax dollars.

In any case this "waste of tax dollars" line is aimed at LA's support base, which, like it or not, is mostly right wing in outlook. His story fits very well into the individualist, made it ourselves free from government interference, we are survivors and fighter morality tale the US right preaches. The waste of tax dollars is just a throwaway line that works with those with the right political alignment. Yet another example of LA's cynicism.

I admire your faith and optimism.

 

[lemoogle]

Hinault:

I couldn't care less , it's his problem not mine

and

This should have been sorted out 10-15 years ago and it wasn't

 

[cineteq]

I don't like Lance, never been a fan, but for the life of me I can not figure out how this can be good news, not to mention the waste of tax dollars in a time of need. and all of the inaccurate headlines from bandwagon jumpers is disgusting. sad, sad day for cycling. maybe some good 'ole Spanish deal making in the Vuelta today will cheer me up...

Ask Lance for a refund. He's the one responsible for all the wasted money.

 

[Paco_P]

To those saying this is a bad day for cycling - the worst thing that ever happened to cycling was Lance Armstrong.

His outrageous doping fueled material success contributed mightily to an environment in which all the pros felt they had to dope. He opened the fanbase for cycling to USAns who knew nothing about cycling (not in and of itself negative) and caused media attention to focus excessively on a particular tour, to the detriment of other tours, and other sorts of races. The bad ocurred when the regulatory forces decided to turn a blind eye because they preferred to ride on the coattails. They chose short term riches over the health of the sport, and the dismal situation now, in which all riders are supposed to be dopers unless proven clean, is the consequence. The iconic fraud around which all of this was based is Lance Armstrong, and it will eventually be positive that even some half-assed steps towards exposing that fraud have been taken.

 

[Dr.Sahl]

A couple of things here:

1. How can the USADA (wouldn't that be the UNITED STATES Anti Doping Agency take something away that is awarded in another country? Can France rule that Eli Manning was on steroids last year and take away the Super Bowl title?

2. Cycling WILL NEVER be cleaned up until lifetime bans are handed down for confirmed positive tests. Armstrong never tested positive, he is banned for life. Contador had 2 samples test positive, Spain cleared him. The UCI steps in and bans him for basically 6 months. Ricardo Rico tests positive, admits it and gets a 2 year ban. Then he was eligible to return.

Why doesn't cycling say "you test positive, you are banned forever ! !"

Not going to happen.

I would personal be happy too see "no contest doping verdicts" result in life time bans. Its not good business to ban all people for small stuff (like contador) sure I think he is doped to the gills as well. but its not proven blood doping like others.. I want harsher punishment for mild doping/not fully proven and full life ban for the full proven ones..

I've often asked this for many other sports but well thats not how the world works

 

[Tom T.]

This is good news:

VN: There was reportedly a lot of evidence in the case, there was witness testimony and presumably more…do you expect any of those details to emerge?

TT: Yes, absolutely…at the right time. Obviously there are other cases that are alleged to be involved in the conspiracy. Their cases are still proceeding, so it will be in due course.

VN: So there is no impediment to USADA releasing the evidence?

TT: No, no.

This.

We absolutely need the evidence and testimony to come out. That's why LA isn't challenging USADA, it's a last-ditch effort to keep the evidence sealed. This way his legions of worshippers will only be more ****ed off and fired up to support him no matter what. Also, the average American moron sports fan will tend to believe Lance. I was listening to a Boston sports station and they never talk about cycling but this morning people were calling up left and right to decry how unfairly Lance has been treated. These are football and baseball fans who know nothing about cycling but they all buy into the Lance myth. This is why LA is not challenging, he knows the majority of Americans are ignorant and will believe him. He can live with the minority of hard-core cycling fans who know he's a cheat. They aren't the ones he needs the money from.

 

[CobbleStoner]

Catching Armstrong sends out the strongest possible message to those who dope or are thinking of doping.

He didn't get caught, he finished all those races, while being tested, he beat the system, I'm not saying it's right, but he remained in, and finished, and won those tours, you can never change that or take it away from him

Preventing and disciplining frauds is one of the most basic functions of government. It helps preserve the social order and keep the community healthy. It seems to me a reasonable use of tax dollars.

governments should not investigate any pro sport, ever, waste of time. leave it to the local police if it is something that is not covered in signing their waivers in the field of play.
pro sports are for entertainment, let us be entertained and stop with the BS

 

[johnnycash]

To those saying this is a bad day for cycling - the worst thing that ever happened to cycling was Lance Armstrong.

QUOTE]

Thats not quite fair. You and I don't know the details on how doping worked in the late 90's/2000's. Its easy to look back now and say he was cheating but why pick on him? Why do people love Pantani yet loathe Armstrong? What about Tommy Simpson, a cult hero in the UK, but he doped - albeit with different chemicals to Lance & Co.

You ask anyone with no knowledge of cycling in the UK to name one race, and it'll be the Tour De France. That isn't Lance's doing alone. And if you ask for one rider, it'll be him. He took cycling to a whole new level in terms of global audience.

Outside of northern europe the general public of most countries have never heard of Paris Roubaix or even the Giro. He rissed the porfile of cycling, and inspried a lot of people. Its only a shame that he rode in a culture where everyone doped. He certainly shouldn't be villfied more than Bjarne Riis, Alberto Contador, Johan Bruyneel. What have they ever put back into the sport?

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

he remained in, and finished, and won those tours, you can never change that or take it away from him

Actually, I think you are about to find you can on both counts.

 

[frenchfry]

Im not arguing against bringing the dopers to justice, im arguing against only going for 1 of them. Does it really make any replacing 1 doper with another doper? Does that really make the sport any cleaner?

I dont know if they are going to go for other riders as well, but it makes absolutely no sence if Lance is the only one they are going for. Yes it makes a example, noone is to big to go down, but i really soo no point in replacing 1 cheater with another cheater.

Did you just wake up from a loooong sleep? Mqybe do a minimum of reasearch before clogging up the forum. There are literally hundreds fo cyclists that have been sanctioned for doping.

 

[frenchfry]

For some reason I'm really looking forward to seeing Phil Liggett's response to this. He's gonna have to hit the bottle pretty hard to cope with this.

Phil will toe the company line - no positives in 500 tests, USADA doesn't have jurisdiction, witch hunt, Lance being hounded did the right thing by ignoring procedure, Tygart a bad guy ect. etc.

 

[CobbleStoner]

Actually, I think you are about to find you can on both counts.

unless you have a time machine and can go back and remove him from the race before it finishes, you can't take it away. he experienced it, he was the one standing on the podium in yellow, 7 times
as much as I hate the fact that a doped up tri-geek won, he did it.

 

[Benotti69]

He didn't get caught, he finished all those races, while being tested, he beat the system, I'm not saying it's right, but he remained in, and finished, and won those tours, you can never change that or take it away from him

You are right, I cant change it, but USADA is going to. As WADA's Fahey has said lots, just because you dont test positive doesn't mean you didn't dope.

ps, it still has to come out that he was tested and returned a positive in the Tour of Swizterland. So he didn't beat a fair system. he corrupted a dirty system. That doesn't let him off the hook. I suppose you will let a burglar go if he tells you that society isn't fair?

governments should not investigate any pro sport, ever, waste of time. leave it to the local police if it is something that is not covered in signing their waivers in the field of play.
pro sports are for entertainment, let us be entertained and stop with the BS

Why not? It is a form of white collar crime.

If the entertainment means the death of young wannabe stars, you ok with this?

Take of the yellow bracelet and place it in the nearest rubbish container

 

[The Hitch]

Its a good day because a bad guy loses. That makes everyone feel better. The biggest industry in the world is based around giving people just that emotion.

Just watch what lance did.to.simeoni or what he said to vandevelde. Now.think - he is finally going to fall, and unless you are evil yourself, that should give you great satisfaction.

 

[Benotti69]

unless you have a time machine and can go back and remove him from the race before it finishes, you can't take it away. he experienced it, he was the one standing on the podium in yellow, 7 times
as much as I hate the fact that a doped up tri-geek won, he did it.

He stood there as a cheat. He stood there as a doper. Means nothing to a normal person. To a sociopath, well he'll convince himself he is god enventually.

I bet he looks forward to telling that tale around the family table to his grandkids. I doped to win!

 

[MD FACG FACP]

why does everyone think this is such a great day? this is a horrible day for cycling that just ups the confusion level for non-informed sports watchers, discourages new sponsors from getting involved in cycling, discourages network tv coverage of cycling, puts all winners of every race, ever, in doubt.
I don't like Lance, never been a fan, but for the life of me I can not figure out how this can be good news, not to mention the waste of tax dollars in a time of need. and all of the inaccurate headlines from bandwagon jumpers is disgusting. sad, sad day for cycling. maybe some good 'ole Spanish deal making in the Vuelta today will cheer me up...

So are you saying USADA was going to reappropriate their budget. Should they have paid down a trillion dollar debt. The ridiculous non sense continues from the ignorant masses. Sad day ya right for people w/o brains.

Smoke less bro.

 

[lostintime]

I agree with all those who know cycling will never be "clean". To be "clean" that would mean the powers that be, whoever they may be, would have to be in full agreement what "clean" is . Not going to happen. As long as there are cookies and milk (aka $$$) and lots of them to be handed out ..... corruption will rule the day.

Oh yes ... and the thought that Armstrong has "lost" his titles and they will be "rewarded" to the "good guys" ... lol. Wake the f' up . They were are all doping, and it just so happened that Armstrong was the best of them. So like it or not ... he was the best of THAT time. That cannot be taken away ... we all watched it happen ... we all loved the drama . Own it .

 

[The Eggman]

A couple of things here:

1. How can the USADA (wouldn't that be the UNITED STATES Anti Doping Agency take something away that is awarded in another country?

USADA and UCI are both signatories to WADA. Under the WADA policy, any ban is automatically transferable, for lack of a better term.

 

[Benotti69]

I agree with all those who know cycling will never be "clean". To be "clean" that would mean the powers that be, whoever they may be, would have to be in full agreement what "clean" is . Not going to happen. As long as there are cookies and milk (aka $$$) and lots of them to be handed out ..... corruption will rule the day.

Oh yes ... and the thought that Armstrong has "lost" his titles and they will be "rewarded" to the "good guys" ... lol. Wake the f' up . They were are all doping, and it just so happened that Armstrong was the best of them. So like it or not ... he was the best of THAT time. That cannot be taken away ... we all watched it happen ... we all loved the drama . Own it .

Is that yellow wrist band just a little too tight.

He was the best DOPER of that time. Hope you'll buy the T-shirt, 7 time DQ TdF'er

 

[lostintime]

He was the best DOPER of that time.

That's what I said .. I guess you missed that part .... lol.

"They were are all doping, and it just so happened that Armstrong was the best of them"

I'm not a fan of Armstrong .... yet I am not in favor lynching people either especially when speaking of that era of cycling and the "mob mentality" of doping. Either you joined them or you were not a part of them. Look at the WHOLE picture , not just thru the eyes of blind hatred and fear. Or not. Choose.

 

[Roude Leiw]

This is a very good thing.....

Now whomever hands down his race titles to the next ones, they should have the guts to leave the winner blank and acknowledge this way the EPO years. Handing the Tour victory (if I just consider those) to Zuelle / Ullrich / Kloeden etc. would be an even greater joke than our doped up Lance winning and keeping the titles.

Pat

 

[Benotti69]

That's what I said .. I guess you missed that part .... lol.

"They were are all doping, and it just so happened that Armstrong was the best of them"

And i said that is nothing to be proud of. It is no achievement at all. It still means he is dirt, a doper, a cheat and a fraud.