What hapened to Contador?

[Ferminal]

On Contador's June form last year he was going to get challenged by Cuddles

 

[mightymac12]

On Contador's June form last year he was going to get challenged by Cuddles

I agree with you, but intuition leads us to believe that last year he had certain advantages he may not this year. Say what you will about what "it" is, but Johan provides an extra something.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

who? contador? didn't look casual to me. not at all.

no he looked like suffering, long time since we've seen that!

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Some people seem to get peed off by AC's salute. I don't know why. I just think it's a bit of fun.

Though having said that, if a certain other rider had a little signature salute, we'd never hear the end of it.

Hmm I think Alberto should show more emotion as he wins. The pistolero sign is just so 'made'.

 

[Ferminal]

I agree with you, but intuition leads us to believe that last year he had certain advantages he may not this year. Say what you will about what "it" is, but Johan provides an extra something.

You could be right

I wouldn't bet on it though

 

[python]

afld chief said the other day that usada is very helpful with providing the whereabouts for certain american riders. guess who they are targetting for ooc tests ?

no i dont think the bruyneel brew will be as as potent in the tour as it used to be. between the flandis pointers for biopassport, afld's increased attention and the stress of dealing with novitzky, texas will be a shadow of himself - that is if he still has the tiny bit of common sense and heeds the attention he breeds.

 

[Tangled Tango]

Just finished: 42.11 mins. Contador took today for Alpe d Huez. That´s 4.36 mins. slower than the record of Pantani.

And 21 secs. slower than Luis Herrera in 1986 !!

Plus he lost 1.40+ on the long ITT.

So the Question is: Does a total clean top class rider loose 4 mins. on mountain stages compared to a blood/EPO doped rider. Or is Contador not in shape/form? It looked like he tried everything to get separation (ca. 5 attacks) from Brajkovic. So i don´t think he didn´t gave 100% today...

You´re quoting times from the fastest race in the world. June times are not the same as July.

Contador was third in GC at last year´s Daupine with no stage wins. He´s stronger this year. His possible weakness could be early season form at the cost of the form he´ll need in July. My guess is he has things pretty much under control and is on target.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

You´re quoting times from the fastest race in the world. June times are not the same as July.

I didn´t wanna say that Contador is a rider depending on extra blood only. I just was surprised how much "slower" he was. I expected something like the Giro this year, when the Top-Riders were 1 min. slower than 2008 in the Kronplatz-Stage.

So i expected something around maximum 40 mins., not 42.

But real "bad" are riders like Menchov (51.38 yesterday). Even tough he gave up early since he was dropped in the 1st few kilometers, this time just looks ugly. He seems much afraid since last years Giro/since linked to Vienna. He´s completley lost. 1st i tought he was bad at last years TdF, because he was tired from the Giro. But now, he has no results for over one year. He´s the new Rumsas.

 

[ScotsBiker]

Headwinds and previous climbs all add to the mix.

Nick

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Of course, but on the other hand the riders didn´t have 3 weeks in the legs and the Stage was relativley short (152 km).

 

[Dave_1]

Headwinds and previous climbs all add to the mix.

Nick

Re previous climbs and distance influencing the result...Lance and Ullrich clocked 37 and 38 minutes in the 2004 MTT, as fast as Ullrich climbed it after riding a 100 miles to the base back in 1997, so am not sure distance ridden to the bottom of the climb affects the times so much. maybe we are seeing the bio-passport kick in?

Am 100% sure cycllismag has got the time wrong though...the climb start to the finish line was 41.40 apprx


headwind defo, but cyclismag's calculation of the first 6.5km shows they would have no gone under 40 minutes based on how they rode the first 6.5km

 

[shadowblue]

Old, veteran American rider helping new young American rider on his first time up Alpe d'Huez. Horner is just that kind of guy anyway - very cool.

just like old veteran virenque helped yellow-jersey wearer voeckler in 2004 tdf

 

[danjo007]

something ive noticed from this years racing, is that nearly all the riders who have dominated an entire race seem to be human and have lapses.
in previous years, maybe on 1 stage they'd have an excuse-"he bonked that day" - and that was rare.
now we're seeing the top guys all having numerous "bad" days.

are we now seeing a more legitimate playing field?

 

[Darryl Webster]

something ive noticed from this years racing, is that nearly all the riders who have dominated an entire race seem to be human and have lapses.
in previous years, maybe on 1 stage they'd have an excuse-"he bonked that day" - and that was rare.
now we're seeing the top guys all having numerous "bad" days.

are we now seeing a more legitimate playing field?

With the pressure created by Landis`s revelations I think its likely this years TDF could actualy be the cleanest ever.
If that turns out to be true expect to see many more DNF`s..very large gaps in the field, slower overall race speed and some very batttered looking finishers.
Thats how you`l know a GT is clean..or cleanish

 

[craig1985]

I really have tohand it to BPC for not giving up. If at first you don't succeed...

 

[Christian]

I wonder whether he'll get a name plate in one of the curves like all the winners from TdF stages to Alpe d'Huez. I think this was actually the first time the Dauphine stopped there so no idea

 

[Roninho]

I didn´t wanna say that Contador is a rider depending on extra blood only. I just was surprised how much "slower" he was. I expected something like the Giro this year, when the Top-Riders were 1 min. slower than 2008 in the Kronplatz-Stage.

Riders peak during their season. Contador's peak isn't in June.

 

[SpartacusRox]

Re previous climbs and distance influencing the result...Lance and Ullrich clocked 37 and 38 minutes in the 2004 MTT, as fast as Ullrich climbed it after riding a 100 miles to the base back in 1997, so am not sure distance ridden to the bottom of the climb affects the times so much. maybe we are seeing the bio-passport kick in?

Am 100% sure cycllismag has got the time wrong though...the climb start to the finish line was 41.40 apprx


headwind defo, but cyclismag's calculation of the first 6.5km shows they would have no gone under 40 minutes based on how they rode the first 6.5km

There seems to be a slightly ridiculous assumption on several of these type of posts that Contador would hit the bottom of the climb bent on breaking a record or thinking, "I really need to go under 40 minutes on this climb". This was a race not a time trial. The attacks were very stop start as evidenced by guys who were dropped, repeatedly riding their way back on just by setting a steady tempo. Contador was doing his best to drop JB but was unable to in his June form and JB was targetting this race so the outcome was probably what most knowledgable cycling fans would have expected. To read anything else into the result is just nonsensical. As JB said after the race, it was very windy and it was made a lot easier for him because he just had to sit on while AC had to make the running.

 

[bobs nob]

something ive noticed from this years racing, is that nearly all the riders who have dominated an entire race seem to be human and have lapses.
in previous years, maybe on 1 stage they'd have an excuse-"he bonked that day" - and that was rare.
now we're seeing the top guys all having numerous "bad" days.

are we now seeing a more legitimate playing field?

I think they are trying to tailor their programs to yield more realistic blood values as the tour rolls along but still allow their program to benefit their performance as much as possible.

If correct, couple emails by a convicted, admitted doper and implicit liar (and wanted man?) have exposed the gold standard bio-pass as a paper tiger.

 

[Sophistic]

The whole "its just june" talk is nonsense, Contadors LT seems to be >10% lower than at last years TDF. You can only make such a big jump with 3-4 weeks of training when you come back from several weeks of illness/injuries/no training.
No Pro who has been consistently training can add 40-50 Watts like that, we all know that there is only one way to make such an improvement.
We are talking about a guy who looked relaxed pushing 480 Watts up an 8km climb and beating Fabian Cancellara in a long ITT.
Yeah other TDF champions have had similar form curves in the past...and we all know why.

 

[Big Doopie]

The whole "its just june" talk is nonsense, Yeah other TDF champions have had similar form curves in the past...and we all know why.

+1.

also of note -- contador's two "bad" days were while riding in france (crit international and crit dauphine). i would not be surprised if blood extraction took place then. this way blood bags can remain in france and don't need to be transported over borders/customs.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

I really have tohand it to BPC for not giving up. If at first you don't succeed...

Imagine if your God was continually mocked derided and insulted by a seemingly large group. This is beyond personal.

 

[Escarabajo]

+1.

also of note -- contador's two "bad" days were while riding in france (crit international and crit dauphine). i would not be surprised if blood extraction took place then. this way blood bags can remain in france and don't need to be transported over borders/customs.

At the beginning I thought that it could not be because of blood extraction, because the results in the TT were not that bad anyway. But what you are saying makes a lot of sense. That means that Bertie even with blood extraction is still strong. Then we should expect a very strong Contador in July.

Menchov probably did the same operation. His results were not that good, so the blood extraction theory fits him better.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Menchov probably did the same operation. His results were not that good, so the blood extraction theory fits him better.

So you think he can overcome his 51.38 Alpe-Time and shine at the TdF? I mean his time was so "bad" it wouldn´t even win in the 50´s.

 

[Parrot23]

At the beginning I thought that it could not be because of blood extraction, because the results in the TT were not that bad anyway. But what you are saying makes a lot of sense. That means that Bertie even with blood extraction is still strong. Then we should expect a very strong Contador in July.

Menchov probably did the same operation. His results were not that good, so the blood extraction theory fits him better.

Agree, plus the training effect/supercompensation from RACING with low blood vols. Bertie was REALLY, REALLY working hard--wasn't backing off in the slightest--YET didn't seem the least upset afterward to have been repeatedly chased down by Brak. These guys know what's what.

Even with the wind, the diff. in Brak and Bertie's effort on Alpe d'Huez was laughable. Don't tell me, anyone, that Brak's baseline fitness/FTP far exceeds Bertie's, LOL.

So much of these results make sense when one thinks of blood additions/withdrawals timing.

Dauphine period is notorious for this. Bet Landis was withdrawing or post-withdrawal when he was half hour off the back on Dauphine climbs, then promptly wins the Tour that year. Same dynamics with Tyler H. at Dauphine, if I remember. And Lance just about killed himself at Dauphine one year against Mayo, when he was prob. low on blood.

Keeping blood in France, not crossing borders, makes a lot of sense. Shrewd. Doesn't Lance always tailor his final training in Nice? Late to be withdrawing blood? Or maybe just the small final amounts, with supercompensation in the final training blocks from slightly low blood volume?

UCI has just got to track total blood vol. regularly, esp. in Dauphine window every year.