What tactic does Cancellara use now?

[Froome19]

he beat both of them at the WRR.

So what? He would never have won that and winning is the main point?

Cancellara was 4th in the bunch sprints at the World Championships, and 4th on Champs Elysees...I haven't seen Nibali do that

Once again these statistics are irrelevant as the chances are that in a small group sprint which we are talking about, it will much more a battle of who has the greatest accelaration than what FC does which is just prologue his way to the line. (though in terms of who is better at sprinting obviously Cancellara is, why in the world would Nibali be better??)

Could not disagree more.

World class sprinters like Sagan, Goss, Cav and those guys have snap that Canc does not have. Canc can hold a ridiculous speed for a looong time but it takes him a little more to get there than Boonen. Or Goss. Or Sagan Or a handful of guys that finished at 2 seconds.
.

Not really Canc can ride at ridiculuosly fast speeds for short times as well as long times and I think the jump here can be linked to his 4th at worlds + Champs d'elysees

I'm saying he needs to stop the hero attack.

....and correct yes he needs to wait for a selection and attack from that group. He needs others to show their hand first before playing his.

What would you do?

At MSR what should he have done then, waited until after the Poggio
That was as much a selection as he could have gotten and the furthest gap he could have gotten, I think its pretty clear he shouldnt have attacked from 1.5km. (if you're referring to Flanders 2011 which was the only one which flopped then yeh ok.)

All jousting aside...

I'll tell my team that if one or two of them don't make the early move I will kick their azz.

Ultimately, If I am FC I want to solo in FTW. I don't think he can risk a late attack on a flat run-in where there may be significant wind involved.

He has to go 25 or 30k out on probably the 2nd trip up the Paterberg. He could wait for the last hill combo too. Somewhere in there is what I'd expect.

But, much depends on who's up the road, conditions and so on.

Exactly, Cancellara doesnt need to decimate the opposition just to beat them.
Roubaix last year was a perfect example of this, as he wasnt able to drop Hushovd and co. up to right near the end where it was too late. He didnt properly commit to an attack until then because he saw he couldnt properly shake off hushovd. If he had a better team then they could have reeled back in Van summeren and he would have won.
The key defining factor from Roubaix is that His rivals still have lots left in the tank from further out so it is stupid to attack then when they have more team mates to help catch him and when they are fresher so they can hold on, if Canc is the strongest he can wait and bide his time.
The only flaw with this is the problem that he may not have the strong enough team to control the race while this is going on and this is a problem and very possibly the reason why he attacked earlyish at Flanders last year.

 

[Anonymous]

You just proved my point. By NOT following Pellizotti, Rebillian and other but waited to the opportune time to attack the others had spent their biscuits. Great move. He attacked once and attacked strong and alone. Perfect.

Again he should have let Nibs and Gerrans go. He knows he could have chased them down if need by after the decent. In fact he would have made time up on Gerrans on the decent. He could have timed it to catch them with 1km to go breaking for the pack. Simple really.

Great move. He attacked once and attacked strong and alone. Perfect.

Why was Canc not followed with 2k to go?

How many more times in the future will you expect the group to allow Canc a 10 meter gap in the last 2k of a finale?

Again he should have let Nibs and Gerrans go.

Maybe, but if it had finished in a bunch sprint what chance would he have had and how would you have criticized?

He knows he could have chased them down if need by after the decent.

Not if he's in traffic.

Simple really

Canc must be a real idiot then.

 

[Anonymous]

So what? He would never have won that and winning is the main point?


Once again these statistics are irrelevant as the chances are that in a small group sprint which we are talking about, it will much more a battle of who has the greatest accelaration than what FC does which is just prologue his way to the line. (though in terms of who is better at sprinting obviously Cancellara is, why in the world would Nibali be better??)

Not really Canc can ride at ridiculuosly fast speeds for short times as well as long times and I think the jump here can be linked to his 4th at worlds + Champs d'elysees

At MSR what should he have done then, waited until after the Poggio
That was as much a selection as he could have gotten and the furthest gap he could have gotten, I think its pretty clear he shouldnt have attacked from 1.5km. (if you're referring to Flanders 2011 which was the only one which flopped then yeh ok.)

Exactly, Cancellara doesnt need to decimate the opposition just to beat them.
Roubaix last year was a perfect example of this, as he wasnt able to drop Hushovd and co. up to right near the end where it was too late. He didnt properly commit to an attack until then because he saw he couldnt properly shake off hushovd. If he had a better team then they could have reeled back in Van summeren and he would have won.
The key defining factor from Roubaix is that His rivals still have lots left in the tank from further out so it is stupid to attack then when they have more team mates to help catch him and when they are fresher so they can hold on, if Canc is the strongest he can wait and bide his time.
The only flaw with this is the problem that he may not have the strong enough team to control the race while this is going on and this is a problem and very possibly the reason why he attacked earlyish at Flanders last year.

Not really Canc can ride at ridiculuosly fast speeds for short times as well as long times and I think the jump here can be linked to his 4th at worlds + Champs d'elysees

If FC had snap like Goss he'd win bunch sprints right, left and center. His turn of speed might even be above average but I would not expect much better results from him when it comes to a sprint. It's not his strength and not a good tactic for him.

 

[Froome19]

If FC had snap like Goss he'd win bunch sprints right, left and center. His turn of speed might even be above average but I would not expect much better results from him when it comes to a sprint. It's not his strength and not a good tactic for him.

I quoted you from not referring to sprints but from accelarations in the last 2km, slightly different and undoubtebly Cancellara is the best at making those accelarations work as he just goes into prologueist mode.
Indeed its not his best option as even the best riders cant escape a fully aware bunch (most times see his TDF win) but it is one of his strengths and it is something he can fall back on but if he has the ability to be the strongest in the race and TT from 15km out then there that is a much more assured method.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Needs to ditch the Trek and get back on the Cervelo as well.

Trek? serious?
ummm I like my antique 1995 polished aluminum Cannondale with it’s inadequate “175mm cranks”… oh no not that debate….. Sorry for the off topic.


Scott is banging on me to see this from his POV. I can but I do not see it from his POV. I will watch his video when I get home. Hope he does not "break me down something proper like" until I have a chance to properly defend this debate.

 

[airstream]

In no ways. He did everything he could. It's a sport and not everything always depends on the only man even if he is by far the strongest.

 

[pedaling squares]

Hilarious that thehog is handing out warnings without having anything to back them up, while at the same time critiquing Cancellara for choosing poor tactics. At least Fabian had an arrow or two in his quiver. I did like the Gerrans/Granny line though, credit to our porcine brother for that one.

 

[Anonymous]

Trek? serious?
ummm I like my antique 1995 polished aluminum Cannondale with it’s inadequate “175mm cranks”… oh no not that debate….. Sorry for the off topic.


Scott is banging on me to see this from his POV. I can but I do not see it from his POV. I will watch his video when I get home. Hope he does not "break me down something proper like" until I have a chance to properly defend this debate.

Nah. No worries.

I just don't get the criticism. And I don't get the idea that FC can't win from 40k out, but he can pull off a surprise attack in the last 2 kilometers.

Got my head scratcher out for that one.

 

[thehog]

Canc must be a real idiot then.

Thats whats becoming apparent. So much talent and strength but used in the wrong ways. He might end up the next Ullrich!

 

[thehog]

Hilarious that thehog is handing out warnings without having anything to back them up, while at the same time critiquing Cancellara for choosing poor tactics. At least Fabian had an arrow or two in his quiver. I did like the Gerrans/Granny line though, credit to our porcine brother for that one.

I agree and I've said it before: Canc must be hurting bad by getting beat by a girl like Gerrans. Thats the ultimate insult.

 

[Nick C.]

In 2008 weren't Hushovd and Freire in the group? My take was that there was dickering about in the group b/c no one was towing them to the line.

edit: the video doesn't quite show what is going on when Canc is with Landaluze. Be that as it may he's done that already and at that time some prologues and PR (with the train track issue) under his belt, he was not yet "Spartacus."

 

[BillytheKid]

Everyone has woken up when he attacks. They will just sit & wait. He's become a one trick pony with no other options. He really needs to find another way to win that doesn't involve trying to ride off the front and soloing to a win.

He's beginning to look stupid.

You just wish you could ride like that. Flanders can suit him very well and the ITT win at TA plus the solo win at Strande Bianche have given him two wins on the season already. Second at Milan San Remo "stupid?"

Classic are not just given out.

Who elected you head of this outfit?

Sorry. Very grumpy today.

 

[BillytheKid]

A warrior poet:

“I would have preferred to crash elsewhere, but crashes happen. I expect crashes, I expect the bike to break, or not work correctly, or the mechanic may miss something and the handlebar comes loose. When it happens, I just deal with it and move on.” Horner.

You can also expect ingratitudes.

 

[thehog]

You just wish you could ride like that. Flanders can suit him very well and the ITT win at TA plus the solo win at Strande Bianche have given him two wins on the season already. Second at Milan San Remo "stupid?"

Classic are not just given out.

Who elected you head of this outfit?

Sorry. Very grumpy today.

I think you miss my point of starting the thread. Fabs is by far the best one day rider in the peloton. Better than Gilbert, better than Boonen. He’s probably on talent alone the best there ever was. That’s why it’s so frustrating to see him lose the races in the way he does especially when he’s on form. Getting beat by Gerrans it’s a slap in the face. Gerrans is not a MSR winner – but latched on the back of Cancellara he had a chance.

I’d love to see Fabian walk away and end his career with 4 Flanders titles and 3 PR’s. Sadly I’m worried he won’t win another one again. That’s unless he finds a little bit of nous to go with his talent.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I think you miss my point of starting the thread. Fabs is by far the best one day rider in the peloton. Better than Gilbert, better than Boonen. He’s probably on talent alone the best there ever was. That’s why it’s so frustrating to see him lose the races in the way he does especially when he’s on form. Getting beat by Gerrans it’s a slap in the face. Gerrans is not a MSR winner – but latched on the back of Cancellara he had a chance.

I’d love to see Fabian walk away and end his career with 4 Flanders titles and 3 PR’s. Sadly I’m worried he won’t win another one again. That’s unless he finds a little bit of nous to go with his talent.

He seems to lack imagination with regards to his attack in location and situations. He would benefit from a good classics DS in my opinion.

 

[function]

He seems to lack imagination with regards to his attack in location and situations. He would benefit from a good classics DS in my opinion.

Come on, FC has attacked from literally every single scenario it's almost hard to tell; 50km flat, 10km uphill, 5km flat, 1km flat, really is it fair to say he has no imagination? It's also really difficult to slip off the front when absolutely everyone knows your attacks most likely will be the decisive split.

 

[thehog]

He seems to lack imagination with regards to his attack in location and situations. He would benefit from a good classics DS in my opinion.

Agree with everything you state.

He misses Riis terribly. If he loses Flanders and Roubiax this year then mark my words he's going home to Saxo. You build teams guys like Fabian. You don't leave them on there own to fight it out. If he wins nothing and goes to the Tour having to tow th Shlecks around I'll scream.

In addition these days he’s not guaranteed his TT win either with Tony Martin the new kid on the block. His prospects are bleak.

He probably should have jump ship when he had the chance but h stuck with the Hog. Didn't Hog promise him Classics team?

 

[function]

In addition these days his not gurennteed his TT win either with Tony Martin the new kid on the block. His prospects are bleak.

The hog in fine form, unlike FC you certainly are peaking for the spring series!

 

[Anonymous]

Agree with everything you state.

He misses Riis terribly. If he loses Flanders and Roubiax this year then mark my words he's going home to Saxo. You build teams guys like Fabian. You don't leave them on there own to fight it out. If he wins nothing and goes to the Tour having to tow th Shlecks around I'll scream.

In addition these days he’s not guaranteed his TT win either with Tony Martin the new kid on the block. His prospects are bleak.

He probably should have jump ship when he had the chance but h stuck with the Hog. Didn't Hog promise him Classics team?

No he doesn't. Riis did not design a tactic that launched FC 50k from the line to win the 2010 PR by 3 minutes. No more than he designed the tactic to drop Boonen on the Muur at that year's RVV.

Riis did not design a tactic at the 2008 MSR either. FC look to see who was on his wheel... stupidly, no one was and he pounced. Riis didn't have anything to do with that decision.

His prospects are bleak.

He's already had a successful season.

He's got a better team this year than last. Perhaps we ought to let the important races play out before making this declaration.

 

[Anonymous]

The hog in fine form, unlike FC you certainly are peaking for the spring series!

Is something to behold, isn't it?

 

[danjo007]

hog, you are wrong. i say so, because you always base your arguments from fantasy. i dont know whats going on in your head, but it must be special.

 

[mr. tibbs]

No he doesn't. Riis did not design a tactic that launched FC 50k from the line to win the 2010 PR by 3 minutes. No more than he designed the tactic to drop Boonen on the Muur at that year's RVV.

snip

As I recall, Riis did make that call. After the race, Cancellara said that Riis came over the radio, said Boonen was at the back of the group lording it over everyone, and that he should go now. And he went. And--just like we can assume Riis suspected--no one would help Boonen bring him back. 50km solo, ftw.

(Disclaimer: I don't have a source to produce for the assertion that Riis made the call, I just remember reading it in a CN story [not forum chatter] and chortling about how Spartacus has this huge engine but no steering wheel upstairs to guide it.)

Cancellara is the strongest of the hard men, but he hasn't been able to translate that strength to a monument since leaving Saxo. That does seem to lend some credence to hog's comment.

I would personally love to see him back under Riis's guidance, b/c right now he's just being held back. And I have no idea why he's sticking it out with LEOPARDshack. Do you think Riis would have let him sit up and play "I don't want to pull" at Paris-Roubaix last year? I don't. I think Riis would have told him to ride Hushovd off his wheel and win the damn race.

 

[FabulousCandelabra]

New tactic, get the organizers to change their race routes!

 

[Anonymous]

As I recall, Riis did make that call. After the race, Cancellara said that Riis came over the radio, said Boonen was at the back of the group lording it over everyone, and that he should go now. And he went. And--just like we can assume Riis suspected--no one would help Boonen bring him back. 50km solo, ftw.

(Disclaimer: I don't have a source to produce for the assertion that Riis made the call, I just remember reading it in a CN story [not forum chatter] and chortling about how Spartacus has this huge engine but no steering wheel upstairs to guide it.)

Cancellara is the strongest of the hard men, but he hasn't been able to translate that strength to a monument since leaving Saxo. That does seem to lend some credence to hog's comment.

I would personally love to see him back under Riis's guidance, b/c right now he's just being held back. And I have no idea why he's sticking it out with LEOPARDshack. Do you think Riis would have let him sit up and play "I don't want to pull" at Paris-Roubaix last year? I don't. I think Riis would have told him to ride Hushovd off his wheel and win the damn race.

As I recall, Riis did make that call. After the race, Cancellara said that Riis came over the radio, said Boonen was at the back of the group lording it over everyone, and that he should go now. And he went. And--just like we can assume Riis suspected--no one would help Boonen bring him back. 50km solo, ftw

Okay....

I follow this stuff pretty close. I don't remember seeing it but that certainly does not mean Riis did not orchestrate this move.

If he did, and I am saying "if", then FC needs to get back in the Riis fold ASAP. And I owe Hog an apology. And I probably should STFU and enjoy the bike race.

FWIW, I don't think he ordered that attack but, like normal, I reserve the right to be wrong.

 

[hmronnow]

Okay....

I follow this stuff pretty close. I don't remember seeing it but that certainly does not mean Riis did not orchestrate this move.

If he did, and I am saying "if", then FC needs to get back in the Riis fold ASAP. And I owe Hog an apology. And I probably should STFU and enjoy the bike race.

FWIW, I don't think he ordered that attack but, like normal, I reserve the right to be wrong.

I also read that Riis made the call.