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What will Lemond say?

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editedbymod

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S2Sturges said:
Phil was saying he crashed in the neutral zone too, yesterday... there's a couple of pics on the CN website from yesterday that say it all about LA, he looks positively out of it,not even the same looking guy... he just might get off the bike, his team is doing nothing, obviously they are demoralised and the final procession of the King has turned in to noting more than train wreck after train wreck.. he should just step off the bike into a airplane and get ready for his date with the Feds

What killed Tyler was he never really knew what he was capable of a rider. You take so much and prepare for your races you forget what you were as a natural rider. The masterstroke of Operation Landis is that Armstrong is stuck in France whilst everyone he's ever dealt with are speaking with the Feds. Best part no one is talking to Armstrong. No one. He hates it. He knows if he drops out it looks like he's guilty but day after day he's being mentality destroyed. Now he knows how Floyd felt. He's also now feeling like Tyler. You have no idea who you are anymore.
 
editedbymod said:
What killed Tyler was he never really knew what he was capable of a rider. You take so much and prepare for your races you forget what you were as a natural rider. The masterstroke of Operation Landis is that Armstrong is stuck in France whilst everyone he's ever dealt with are speaking with the Feds. Best part no one is talking to Armstrong. No one. He hates it. He knows if he drops out it looks like he's guilty but day after day he's being mentality destroyed. Now he knows how Floyd felt. He's also now feeling like Tyler. You have no idea who you are anymore.

Very interesting viewpoint, thanks for that.
 

Polish

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Before Greg settled with Trek out-of-court, Trek was threatening to release details regarding two things:

1) Greg's supposed "extortion plot" to get monies from Trek. Taped phone call.
2) Trek claiming that Greg sold a "Bro-Deal" stash of "LeMond" branded bikes for personal gain.

Greg never denied point #2, but the judge said it would not be part of the Greg vs Trek court case. Point #1 would have been part of the case - but the settling out of court kept it from seeing the light of day.

I would think the G-Men would be interested in the details of selling/accounting bikes non-retail and supposed extortion plots.
 
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editedbymod said:
What killed Tyler was he never really knew what he was capable of a rider. You take so much and prepare for your races you forget what you were as a natural rider. The masterstroke of Operation Landis is that Armstrong is stuck in France whilst everyone he's ever dealt with are speaking with the Feds. Best part no one is talking to Armstrong. No one. He hates it. He knows if he drops out it looks like he's guilty but day after day he's being mentality destroyed. Now he knows how Floyd felt. He's also now feeling like Tyler. You have no idea who you are anymore.

BS. Simply incorrect Landis is acting like he had a masterstroke. The feds and by feds I guess you mean all the countries and agencies looking into Floyd's claims are going steady as she goes. Lance,Levi,George and Dave are all still at the TDF..in the country were Floyd is wanted by the cops. US tax law is also some of the easiest ever when you earn money overseas. The Landis math that involves sold bikes and then a guess of what was done with the proceeds is going to make him further foolish. Lance can claim that lots of bike were sold and the cash was used for pizza parties for whoever. Tyler and Floyd have bike racing in common with Lance..the difference in legal team will again separate them even further. If you look at the US Cycling fed and you look close loads of teams are nonprofits and when the IRS or anybody else starts looking up their butz with a microscope the fallout will be some scorched earth looking thing.Club in my area sold helmets and kits that were donated and raised money for a Jrs program..all unreported..I hope those kids don't have to cut their Belgium trip shot because of an income reporting error.. they won't the feds/IRS have bigger fish to fry
 

editedbymod

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Thanks for the update.

fatandfast said:
BS. Simply incorrect Landis is acting like he had a masterstroke. The feds and by feds I guess you mean all the countries and agencies looking into Floyd's claims are going steady as she goes. Lance,Levi,George and Dave are all still at the TDF..in the country were Floyd is wanted by the cops. US tax law is also some of the easiest ever when you earn money overseas. The Landis math that involves sold bikes and then a guess of what was done with the proceeds is going to make him further foolish. Lance can claim that lots of bike were sold and the cash was used for pizza parties for whoever. Tyler and Floyd have bike racing in common with Lance..the difference in legal team will again separate them even further. If you look at the US Cycling fed and you look close loads of teams are nonprofits and when the IRS or anybody else starts looking up their butz with a microscope the fallout will be some scorched earth looking thing.Club in my area sold helmets and kits that were donated and raised money for a Jrs program..all unreported..I hope those kids don't have to cut their Belgium trip shot because of an income reporting error.. they won't the feds/IRS have bigger fish to fry
 
Darryl Webster said:
Why we trust some and not others is somtimes hard to define but somat about Lemond rings true and always has...Genuine is the best way I can descibe it and it left a lasting impresssion cus prior to that I had doupts.
A hunch doesnt solve a riddle but it`s a part of our guidence system.;)

thanks for that. and i agree.
 

JimmyHoffa

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Polish said:
Before Greg settled with Trek out-of-court, Trek was threatening to release details regarding two things:

1) Greg's supposed "extortion plot" to get monies from Trek. Taped phone call.
2) Trek claiming that Greg sold a "Bro-Deal" stash of "LeMond" branded bikes for personal gain.

Greg never denied point #2, but the judge said it would not be part of the Greg vs Trek court case. Point #1 would have been part of the case - but the settling out of court kept it from seeing the light of day.

I would think the G-Men would be interested in the details of selling/accounting bikes non-retail and supposed extortion plots.

Dam that's a reach.

1. He did get monies from Trek.
Don't think their taped phone call did them much good.

2. Greg not facing conspiracy charge. Worst case tax penalty and fine. Most likely past limit.
 
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Originally Posted by TexPat
Wonder if said mechanic might be Julien Activegin Devriese.


In my expiriance of the pro world no one dopes without the director sportife in on the know of it.
The sougniors/ doctors are also in the know but not all sougniors.
The mechanics are near the bottom of the team structure hirarchy ( no disrespect intended) but have ears to many conversations and often work the longest hours of any crew. It`s an unwritten rule that they repeet. nothing they see or hear and while they like a chat they give nothing away.
They can become confidants of riders as do souignours who are not all in the implicit know.
They tend be late up and work with a fervour that sugests they`d do it for love if they could.
 
Watch the PED Talk

It's been stated in a couple of articles that the *actual* PED use is of no interest to the Investigation(s?) I don't think the public record will have a question like "Did you ever take PED's?" Because it is very well outside the scope of law enforcement's work.

In theory, the PED question would be important to the UCI. I think the record is pretty clear that they won't do anything to tarnish the "Never tested positive" meme because it tarnishes the UCI too much. Look at how USA Track and Field kept Marion Jones at arm's length after an entire career of drug use. It didn't seem to harm the federation at all despite the fact a career's worth of PED use mysteriously was never detected. The UCI will probably follow a similar game plan.

I want to see the LA machine prosecuted as much as the next guy. But I hold that the actual PED use by individuals will not enter the record or be prosecuted. The contract/money issues will be central to the case. But not individual PED use.
 
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DirtyWorks said:
It's been stated in a couple of articles that the *actual* PED use is of no interest to the Investigation(s?) I don't think the public record will have a question like "Did you ever take PED's?" Because it is very well outside the scope of law enforcement's work.

In theory, the PED question would be important to the UCI. I think the record is pretty clear that they won't do anything to tarnish the "Never tested positive" meme because it tarnishes the UCI too much. Look at how USA Track and Field kept Marion Jones at arm's length after an entire career of drug use. It didn't seem to harm the federation at all despite the fact a career's worth of PED use mysteriously was never detected. The UCI will probably follow a similar game plan.

I want to see the LA machine prosecuted as much as the next guy. But I hold that the actual PED use by individuals will not enter the record or be prosecuted. The contract/money issues will be central to the case. But not individual PED use.

For it to be about money, it likely has to be about fraudulently getting money. For it to be about fraud, there has to have been money taken on the basis that they were riding clean, when they weren't. Proving people weren't riding clean would be a first step in showing that they fraudulently took money. They will need to ask the question directly and it will be a matter of record, assuming anything goes to trial. Why do you think the FDA is investigating?
 
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Süddeutsche Zeitung: LeMon why are you playing golf in Ireland instead of going to the Tour de France?

LeMond: I was about to go on the first resting day, to team Garmin for a training program I developed. But had I gone, everyone would have hounded me with questions me about Armstrong and doping. And I didn't need to be the center of attention there.

Süddeutsche: Would you have been welcomed at the Tour?

LeMond: Probably not now. So many things have changed in the management of the Tour In the past couple of years. They really are looking to distance themselves from the past with the Puerto Affair in 2006. I went to the Tour in 2007 with my son and saw how much they tried distancing themselves from that scandal. In the meantime however, the reality is something totally different to the tme as Patrice Clerc was still there

SÜddetusche: the former president of the Tour host ASO, someone who is critical of Lance Armstrong.

LeMond: at that time I was working with the Tour. When Armstrong announced his return to the sport in the fall of 2008, Patrice had to leave his job at the exact same time. Clerc was fired and Armstrong in a way, rehired. And he wasn't really gone. He came under so much pressure in 2005 because of his samples from 1999 testing positive for Epo. So he took a break. All part of the show.

Süddeutsche: Your probably also not welcome because you have positioned yourself as one of the few opponents of Armstrong along with Clerc.

LeMond: Yes, but I still continue to speak about those things about which they don't want to speak. The consequence is that my head has been aching for the past 9 years.

Süddeutsche: Because of Armstrong?

LeMond: Yes, it all begain in 2001, as I commented on my collaboration with Michele Ferrari (convicted Italian doping doctor, with whom Armstrong only worked with during training. At that moment, he rushed into my life.

Süddeutsche: He called you, you said back then.

LeMond: Yes and he said, he would dig up ten people to prive that I had also taken Epo - this episode like all the others, has since become well known. But since then he (Armstrong) suddenly was influencing my life, influencing my fitness company in Montana, my bike company Trek, who he advertises for, broke of all ties to me. He just tries to dominate others. Just like he used to due in the races.

Süddeutsche: He's finally quitting for good now.

LeMond: Although he said two months ago, he would love to ride a few more years. The investigation in the USA after Floyd Landis's statements must be putting him under pressure. It's time he went. He and his people were in my opinion the worst thing that could ever happen to cycling. But it's strange how strong the efforts are to keep his story alive.

Süddeutsche: You mean the A.S.O., which is celebrating him again and the world organization UCI?

LeMond: Yes against so few other riders has there been so much proof and evidence as against Armstrong. Jan Ullrich for example or others had to leave the sport because of the Operation Puerto Affair. But at the end of the day, the evidence and proof against these riders was a lot less than that against Armstring. If he had been a normal rider, and not a cancer survivor surrounded by a PR machine, he would have long been forced out.

Süddeutsche: What do you mean "machine"?

LeMond: His people. I still recall going to the Tour presentation in 2003. I really was ready to bury the hatchet with him since the Tour was celebrating its 100th anniversary. I went and Armstrong was supposed to go on stage with me. Then he came - 30 minutes late of course. he spoke to his manager who spoke to Jean-Marie Leblanc, the Tour head at that time, they turned to me and at one point, someon asked me if I didn't mind going on stage alone. and not with Armstrong.

Süddeutsche: Armonstrong dictated how the sport of cycling had to do things all the years-

LeMond: yes he had them all in the palm of his hand, the organizers/supervisors, the entire orgnaziation behin them. And he still does. It's not just his character that is so controversial, he submitted positive samples, like in 1999...

Süddeutsche: ...which the UCI die not pursue after his comeback ...

LeMond: Yes or the fact that strange things were found in the trash of his teams like last year after the Tour or as in 2000. Now Landis is coming forward about his time with the US POstal team. But: cycling is keeping silent. That is the reality which is why I no longer believe things will change in our sport.

Süddeutsche: YOu have absolutely no hope?

LeMond: Not without completely cleaning house, starting with UCI. They have to go, its management has to go. I don't know if should use the comparison, but it reminds me of the Catholic Church and the victims of abuse. They ahd to replace the heads there since they all had knowledge of the goings-on and did nothing to prevent the abuse. The same with cycling: Everyone was a part of the dirty game and no one said. "Let's clean house" Of course cycling will survive this latest scandal, but seriously, with pride? No the only thing that matters is the business (of making money).

Süddeutsche: There's a saying in German, The fish stinks from the head.

Le Mond: Very good expression. Just like the financial crisis scandal, where there was no transparency through the boards. In cycling it is the umbrella organization, it doesn't want to change anything. The UCI talks and talks. For all I care, the UCI can continue to exist as it is, as long as they would be willing to hand over responsibility for doping tests to someone else. Why do they conduct them themselves?
Süddeutsche: Because they want to keep the control over their sport.

LeMond: Exactly, control. There is no other reason. Everywhere in sports the fight continues to be waged to retain control. The UCI should just promot the sport and leave the rest to independent organizations. And they should finally start supporting investigations. Landis accuses Armstrong and what does the UCI do? They call Landis crazy and recommend he see a psychiatrist. That is ridiculous.

Süddeutsche: The might just feel obligated to Armstrong, the UCI admitted to accepting donations from him of $125,000-

LeMond: He himself spoke a few years ago about $20,000 the man who remembers every dollar? It's not just $125,000 - apparently it's more around $500,000 as I've heard going back to as early as 2000.
 
DirtyWorks said:
It's been stated in a couple of articles that the *actual* PED use is of no interest to the Investigation(s?) I don't think the public record will have a question like "Did you ever take PED's?" Because it is very well outside the scope of law enforcement's work.

In theory, the PED question would be important to the UCI. I think the record is pretty clear that they won't do anything to tarnish the "Never tested positive" meme because it tarnishes the UCI too much.
Look at how USA Track and Field kept Marion Jones at arm's length after an entire career of drug use. It didn't seem to harm the federation at all despite the fact a career's worth of PED use mysteriously was never detected. The UCI will probably follow a similar game plan.

I want to see the LA machine prosecuted as much as the next guy. But I hold that the actual PED use by individuals will not enter the record or be prosecuted. The contract/money issues will be central to the case. But not individual PED use.

If the Investigation concludes with the proof of PED's being purchased within the USPostal for a systematic doping use-and having in account that LA paid the UCI money.. wouldn't you think is quite enough trash on him to deduce he used PED's-regardless his long track of non-positive ala Marion Jones?
 

buckwheat

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fatandfast said:
BS. Simply incorrect Landis is acting like he had a masterstroke. The feds and by feds I guess you mean all the countries and agencies looking into Floyd's claims are going steady as she goes. Lance,Levi,George and Dave are all still at the TDF..in the country were Floyd is wanted by the cops. US tax law is also some of the easiest ever when you earn money overseas. The Landis math that involves sold bikes and then a guess of what was done with the proceeds is going to make him further foolish. Lance can claim that lots of bike were sold and the cash was used for pizza parties for whoever. Tyler and Floyd have bike racing in common with Lance..the difference in legal team will again separate them even further. If you look at the US Cycling fed and you look close loads of teams are nonprofits and when the IRS or anybody else starts looking up their butz with a microscope the fallout will be some scorched earth looking thing.Club in my area sold helmets and kits that were donated and raised money for a Jrs program..all unreported..I hope those kids don't have to cut their Belgium trip shot because of an income reporting error.. they won't the feds/IRS have bigger fish to fry

Dude, relax, you're spraying me with spit.
 
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DirtyWorks said:
It's been stated in a couple of articles that the *actual* PED use is of no interest to the Investigation(s?) I don't think the public record will have a question like "Did you ever take PED's?" Because it is very well outside the scope of law enforcement's work.

In theory, the PED question would be important to the UCI. I think the record is pretty clear that they won't do anything to tarnish the "Never tested positive" meme because it tarnishes the UCI too much. Look at how USA Track and Field kept Marion Jones at arm's length after an entire career of drug use. It didn't seem to harm the federation at all despite the fact a career's worth of PED use mysteriously was never detected. The UCI will probably follow a similar game plan.

I want to see the LA machine prosecuted as much as the next guy. But I hold that the actual PED use by individuals will not enter the record or be prosecuted. The contract/money issues will be central to the case. But not individual PED use.

Can WADA use the evidence after the trial to do their thing? I think current riders may have some concerns after their testimony is a matter of public record. But, they made their choices...
 
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Back up a minute. I thought the only subpoena relating to Lemond was for documents. If so, we're seriously jumping the gun with the question "What will Lemond say?" He's not being asked anything except "please provide documents x, y, and z."
 
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sportzchick said:
What I want to know is where he got the money from?

Where Lance got money from? Uh, his checking account? It could be in Switzerland, but it's not like he would have struggled to come up with that kind of cash.
 
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stephens said:
Back up a minute. I thought the only subpoena relating to Lemond was for documents. If so, we're seriously jumping the gun with the question "What will Lemond say?" He's not being asked anything except "please provide documents x, y, and z."

That not what the reported story says. It says he has been requested to appear July 30 in L.A. to respond to questions.
 
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Ah, I see. Thanks. I wonder if this grand jury proceedings will have as many leaks as they usually do or if we'll never know what was asked/answered?
 
hfer07 said:
If the Investigation concludes with the proof of PED's being purchased within the USPostal for a systematic doping use-and having in account that LA paid the UCI money.. wouldn't you think is quite enough trash on him to deduce he used PED's-regardless his long track of non-positive ala Marion Jones?

Deduce, yes. No doubts. But Public Strategies trolls will still broadcast the 'never been tested positive' message. The UCI will be sure to help keep the myth inflated any way they can. WADA has no authority to compel the UCI. No one left to fix that wrong...
 
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stephens said:
Back up a minute. I thought the only subpoena relating to Lemond was for documents. If so, we're seriously jumping the gun with the question "What will Lemond say?" He's not being asked anything except "please provide documents x, y, and z."

I believe the LeMond subpoena is the first one for a person. So yes, you were right, up until 2 days ago.