Wheel suckers and Cyclingnews

[Anonymous]

well i think the evans article is a great example.

interesting that when stuff is original the writers name gets put on it, when its not, its invariably put as "cycling news staff"

 

[pedaling squares]

I don't see a problem with that article. The first quote by Cadel is attributed to his website, so it's instantly clear that he is not communicating directly with CN. As Terry has pointed out, CN like other cycling sites collects cycling news from many places and it frequently is rehashed material. If they hadn't cited the website I would see the OP's point, but in this case I don't.

 

[180mmCrank]

well i think the evans article is a great example.

interesting that when stuff is original the writers name gets put on it, when its not, its invariably put as "cycling news staff"

I am not sure I am understanding this. In the Evans article a few lines in it says...

... "An incredible knowledge of nutrition, physiology and cycling in general," the Australian former World champion said about Sassi on his personal homepage...

...and it goes on to quote more as the article unfolds. There is acknowledgment that it's from his home page. But are you saying there should be an actual link or something more explicit than this?

Genuinely curious - again because I guess I 've always understood this is what CN do - they trawl around and grab stuff that's interesting for me to read about pro-cycling so I don't have to.

 

[the big ring]

@180mm - basically yes. A link, so we can go and check the facts ourselves. I had already read both diary entries, and recognised the content for what it was. I kept scanning for something "new" then had to go back to carefully read CN's article to see just where they had attributed the source.

I checked the other articles on Evans related to this and one is ripped off from er attributed to The Australian newspaper. The Sassi "just men" one is ripped off from er attributed to Gazzetta dello Sport. etc. etc.

I think the thing that really did my head in was the word-for-word copy of the content, embellished to sound like CN had actually done an interview. Clever, but deceptive, and in the end, just ick.

Maybe it annoys me because they are ripping off the individual, rather than an organisation? Maybe because I am a Cadel fanboi in particular. Dunno.

I look forward to 100s more "news" articles by cyclingnews - about Cadel and his life from the time when he was a young child all the way through to 2009 - now that his biography has been published.

 

[180mmCrank]

@180mm - basically yes. A link, so we can go and check the facts ourselves. I had already read both diary entries, and recognised the content for what it was. I kept scanning for something "new" then had to go back to carefully read CN's article to see just where they had attributed the source.

I checked the other articles on Evans related to this and one is ripped off from er attributed to The Australian newspaper. The Sassi "just men" one is ripped off from er attributed to Gazzetta dello Sport. etc. etc.

I think the thing that really did my head in was the word-for-word copy of the content, embellished to sound like CN had actually done an interview. Clever, but deceptive, and in the end, just ick.

Maybe it annoys me because they are ripping off the individual, rather than an organisation? Maybe because I am a Cadel fanboi in particular. Dunno.

I look forward to 100s more "news" articles by cyclingnews - about Cadel and his life from the time when he was a young child all the way through to 2009 - now that his biography has been published.

When you say 'ripping off' do you mean the quote or the surrounding text. Because obviously a quote is a quote - so it's going to be the same words. But that might not be what you mean.

So if there was an actual link that would be ok but not just the attribution in the article itself? Because I have had a scan through similar articles and now I am noticing there does sem to be some kind of attribution when it's taken from a nother source.

To be honest I am ok with the fact that CN aggregates in this way and it's reassuring to know that they do attribute sources. And I do get that might not do it for you - that you want to se a link.

 

[the big ring]

I also want to see original content :-D Perhaps my expectations are too high.

The Australian and The Age are the 2 most recent news sources that have actually asked Cadel a question and published the response. They are general newspapers, who honestly could not care less about cycling, as far as I am aware.

For cyclingnews - a cycling-specific "news" source - to reprint literally everything from Cadel's most recent diary entries as "news" seems weak by comparison.

 

[180mmCrank]

Thanks for clarifying

 

[Martin318is]

...but when something negativelly affects the bottom line as is the case in journalistic wheel-sucking you immediately go dumpster diving...and drag out this miserable bit of cowardice about how everybody else does it...

you do realise that I am a volunteer moderator and have no emotional or monetary link to CN policy or public opinion?

I have to say - once again that I have yet to see an article that contravenes issues of jounalistic intergrity and certainly not seen one that fails to reference a source. You are complaining about something that is utterly commonplace in modern web publishing.

 

[Martin318is]

I also want to see original content :-D Perhaps my expectations are too high.

The Australian and The Age are the 2 most recent news sources that have actually asked Cadel a question and published the response. They are general newspapers, who honestly could not care less about cycling, as far as I am aware.

For cyclingnews - a cycling-specific "news" source - to reprint literally everything from Cadel's most recent diary entries as "news" seems weak by comparison.

CN is an aggregator. It originally existed to collate stories that were out there so that everyone could go to one place to find them. It still does this but it also provides its own content (which is generally very good).

If you are going to focus on recent articles about evans in the off season the way you have, of course you are going to come to the conclusion you did. I suggest that if you want to make a proper assessment of the way that CN does things you should do a research back through the 2010 archive and read the articles that have been written by journalists on the ground at major races and events such as the doping conference at the 2010 worlds in Geelong (for an example).

 

[this_is_edie]

I must say that I agree somewhat with the OP - not on the wheelsucking though - but on the regurgitated articles. The percentage of these types of articles vs original content is growing and because of it, I have been reading less and less of the content in general. It is impossible to figure out what is original and what is not, so at this point my take when looking at the front page is that nothing is original.

My beef with these regurgitated articles is not that the original source is not mentioned (somewhat lost in the text very often) but that a new twist on the original content is provided. CN chooses not to use all the quotes from the original or switches the flow around and very often that change the tone of the piece. Velonation is another one that does exactly the same, their ratio of regurgitated to original is even worse.

I can't believe I'm about to write this, but I like what velonews is doing with their Must read which actually links back to the original article with just a short summary.

 

[blutto]

you do realise that I am a volunteer moderator and have no emotional or monetary link to CN policy or public opinion?

I have to say - once again that I have yet to see an article that contravenes issues of journalistic integrate and certainly not seen one that fails to reference a source. You are complaining about something that is utterly commonplace in modern web publishing.

...a couple of things...the general tone of my screed was admittedly overblown ( nothing like a sanctimonious wind to fill the sails on the way to a crusade, eh ) and a bit of cheap theatre...and comments were aimed directly at the corporate monolith that is CN...

...seriously though...it was not meant to be anything personal...you are doing what is at best a thankless job...so let me take this opportunity to thank you for your efforts to keep us blowhards in line when we are blowing gaskets...

...but as you admit, journalistic wheel sucking is currently ubiquitous,and yes it has probably always been a problem...and the defense offered, as in everyone does it, really needed a response, because saying something is commonplace simply does not make it even remotely acceptable...

...and lastly, my comments about the place of the forum in inter-net journalism does I believe play into the journalistic wheel-sucking meme and is a very interesting development in journalism ( the draw being its instant inter-activity???)...would be interesting if anyone else has ideas about this...

...sorry, long night, blutto becoming blotto...which at best has always been a thin line...metaphorically speaking of course...

Cheers

blutto

 

[Anonymous]

I am not sure I am understanding this. In the Evans article a few lines in it says...

... "An incredible knowledge of nutrition, physiology and cycling in general," the Australian former World champion said about Sassi on his personal homepage...

...and it goes on to quote more as the article unfolds. There is acknowledgment that it's from his home page. But are you saying there should be an actual link or something more explicit than this?

Genuinely curious - again because I guess I 've always understood this is what CN do - they trawl around and grab stuff that's interesting for me to read about pro-cycling so I don't have to.

i think there should be a link, yes.

but im also damn sure that article didnt say "on his homepage originally". Otherwise this thread woulndt have been started. I scoured that article for a link to where they were getting the information from.

 

[Francois the Postman]

but im also damn sure that article didnt say "on his homepage originally".

Possibly. You'd have to ask the OP if it was indeed absent. But if it was missing from the original post, judging by the time stamp, it was corrected before the OP got his forum post together, and it would have been missing for all of 6 minutes.

 

[Martin318is]

...but as you admit, journalistic wheel sucking is currently ubiquitous,and yes it has probably always been a problem...and the defense offered, as in everyone does it, really needed a response, because saying something is commonplace simply does not make it even remotely acceptable...

fair enough about everything else you said in that post but I wanted to quickly address this part because I think I worded earlier comments poorly. The stated goal of CyclingNews when it started up was to provide a central location for English speaking cycling fans to stay up to date on cycling worldwide. Most articles at the time were written in foreign languages such as French, Italian, etc and CN brought all these articles together and translated where they could so that we could all enjoy them. It is only more recently that English language sources have come up to speed.

The site is still predominantly an aggregator (that takes care to make careful attribution of sources) but has evolved to have some very good writers on staff to provide original stories too. If you evaluate the site by comparing it to BBC online then certainly there will seem to be less % of original content. But my earlier comments were that it was better to compare it to other sites and "news" pages that blindly copy and publish pages from other sites. I personally think that CN provides an excellent service and appropriately adopts the ground between original news generator and blind copier.

 

[blutto]

fair enough about everything else you said in that post but I wanted to quickly address this part because I think I worded earlier comments poorly. The stated goal of CyclingNews when it started up was to provide a central location for English speaking cycling fans to stay up to date on cycling worldwide. Most articles at the time were written in foreign languages such as French, Italian, etc and CN brought all these articles together and translated where they could so that we could all enjoy them. It is only more recently that English language sources have come up to speed.

The site is still predominantly an aggregator (that takes care to make careful attribution of sources) but has evolved to have some very good writers on staff to provide original stories too. If you evaluate the site by comparing it to BBC online then certainly there will seem to be less % of original content. But my earlier comments were that it was better to compare it to other sites and "news" pages that blindly copy and publish pages from other sites. I personally think that CN provides an excellent service and appropriately adopts the ground between original news generator and blind copier.

...thanks for the response which helped clarify some of the issues I had...the idea of a news source as an aggregator is an interesting concept which seems a fair way to do things when a site is something of a communal effort...however I'm still struggling with applying that idea unto a for-profit organization ( not that I am looking for a definitive answer here and now )...food for later thought perhaps?...

Cheers

blutto

 

[blutto]

Why do you use so many periods? It's crazy man. 3x periods after a question mark?

...I suffer from a rare condition called periodosis...but fear not I am on a course that is leading to a recovery...it involves taking massive amounts of every drug you can imagine ( or is that dream of )...the doctors tell me that only will I be cured but I'll be really fast as well....oh...and smart too...I can hardly wait....

...truth be known...its a conversational style of writing that I think nicely fits into the blog/forum format...allows for a nice flow that is not too encumbered by the artificial rules of composition that usually define written communication...for me its either that or write in what we call a proper white paper style and I've done enough of that to last a lifetime...

Cheers

blutto