::::~ Wheelbuilders thread ~::::

[Mike T.]

Exactly! Weight savings between aluminum and brass nips isn't even worth mentioning. The best way to cut the lifespan of a wheel set by 1/3rd or more is to use aluminum nipples. Even adding all kinds of lubes and such to keep it from oxidizing or chemically welding itself to the rim doesn't matter, one will eventually fail then the rest soon to follow. SAY NO TO ALUMINUM NIPPLES!!!

17 year aluminum nipple user here on various sets of wheels (about 6), road track and mountain bike, with zeeeero failures.

 

[Ruby60]

Just wondering what the experts think about using "off center right" rims for rear wheels?
I'm a Campy user and build my own wheels. Years ago, when using normally drilled rims, I had a hard time getting the non-drive side spokes tensioned up properly, whereas the drive side spokes were taut.
Since switching to the OCR rims, my wheels are much better... IMO.
I have used Velocity and Ritchey OCR rims with equal success.
So, what are the experts opinions?

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

17 year aluminum nipple user here on various sets of wheels (about 6), road track and mountain bike, with zeeeero failures.

Ok, I can drop some credentialism too. Next month I will have been building wheels for 26 years, worked for 5 shops, two distributors, and have had my own wheel building studio for the last 3 in this time, suffice it to say, I've seen a lot of wheels. My friend, I can tell you from experience that a wheel set built with brass nipples will outlast one built with aluminum 10 times out of 10, everything else being equal of course. Have you ever done breaking point tests of wheel parts? I have, aluminum nipples don't hold up, and I stand by what I said earlier, especially for most people who don't have "6" sets to choose from, most rely on 1 or 2 at best. From where I'm sitting I'm glad builders are still using aluminum nipples, gives me lots of repair work, but I will not build with them, no way.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Just wondering what the experts think about using "off center right" rims for rear wheels?
I'm a Campy user and build my own wheels. Years ago, when using normally drilled rims, I had a hard time getting the non-drive side spokes tensioned up properly, whereas the drive side spokes were taut.
Since switching to the OCR rims, my wheels are much better... IMO.
I have used Velocity and Ritchey OCR rims with equal success.
So, what are the experts opinions?

O/C rims are kind of dated, with modern componentry there's should be no reason you can't achieve a properly tensioned, dished, and trued rear wheel unless it's builder error. With normal rims, the difference in tension from left to right in a rear wheel is about 40-45% depending on the parts. I think Ritchey discontinued the OCR more than 5 years ago, Velocity discontinued the Arrowhead O/C in this time frame as well, come to think of it I believe Velocity made the OCR rims for Ritchey, the only O/C rim that's left is the Synergy, which I'm sure will be discontinued sooner rather than later.

 

[Ruby60]

Thanks for the info. I'm surprised... guess that dates me as well!
My Campy hubs are rather old ... 2004 and 2006, but they still roll very well. The wheels have been used for daily training and racing and have held up very well. They are probably over built... 3X 32 hole and 14G straight... but I am a 110kg bike plus rider package.
Has Campy changed their rear hub flange dimensions?

 

[richwagmn]

I think this belongs here...

Is there any advantage to bladed spokes? I get that there might be some aero advantage (however small) but is there any strength advantage?

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I think this belongs here...

Is there any advantage to bladed spokes? I get that there might be some aero advantage (however small) but is there any strength advantage?

Sure, there are a couple advantages to bladed spokes. Aero, yes, of course it's slight, but it does make a difference. In terms of the Sapim CX-Ray, it's lighter and holds a much higher fatigue rating than the standard 14/15g round double butted spoke like the Race, it's the aero spoke of choice at the highest levels of racing. From a builders perspective they're nice because the blade eliminates the need to constantly check for torsion or twist that happens when building with round spokes, just hold on tight with an aero spoke key and make sure all are pointing in the same direction. One caveat about bladed spokes, they are very tax, expect to pay mega bucks for something that most people do not need to empty their wallets for. A regular round double butted spoke is $1, an aero spoke like a CX-Ray is $3.15 per spoke, adds up quickly.

 

[TexPat]

Exactly! Weight savings between aluminum and brass nips isn't even worth mentioning. The best way to cut the lifespan of a wheel set by 1/3rd or more is to use aluminum nipples. Even adding all kinds of lubes and such to keep it from oxidizing or chemically welding itself to the rim doesn't matter, one will eventually fail then the rest soon to follow. SAY NO TO ALUMINUM NIPPLES!!!

Revolutions only if you're light enough, front, non drive side, but no Revs on the drive side, use Comps. 12mm nipples brass, not aluminum.

I've seen a few wheels over the years as well, and only see issues with alu nips with overweight riders or those who don't look after their kit.
I also have an ss rear wheel with a disc and Revolutions on both sides-- six years old with alloy nips. No issues.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I've seen a few wheels over the years as well, and only see issues with alu nips with overweight riders or those who don't look after their kit.
I also have an ss rear wheel with a disc and Revolutions on both sides-- six years old with alloy nips. No issues.

Yep, options are plentiful when dealing with SS, non-dished rear wheels, much stronger and stable than dished. I think I still have a SS wheel set laying around with aluminum nipples too, before I stopped building with them. And you're right about weight and maintenance, most people out there rocking it are heavier, don't take care of their gear, or both.

 

[TexPat]

Yep, options are plentiful when dealing with SS, non-dished rear wheels, much stronger and stable than dished. I think I still have a SS wheel set laying around with aluminum nipples too, before I stopped building with them. And you're right about weight and maintenance, most people out there rocking it are heavier, don't take care of their gear, or both.

Vintage pave pounders:
Mavic Mach 2 CD 32 h 3x
DT Comps Alu nips
DA 7900 Hubs
Beaten and left for dead countless times. Raced CX, road, winter training.
8 years old. Countless miles.
Nary a problem.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Vintage pave pounders:
Mavic Mach 2 CD 32 h 3x
DT Comps Alu nips
DA 7900 Hubs
Beaten and left for dead countless times. Raced CX, road, winter training.
8 years old. Countless miles.
Nary a problem.

Excellent! I will not build with aluminum nipples because all my customers aren't TexPat. If only I even use brass in carbon rims!!! I'm sure that will raise the ire of someone too. Oh well, what can I do. Everybody has their own way, I take nothing to chance, especially a nipple.

 

[TexPat]

Excellent! I will not build with aluminum nipples because all my customers aren't TexPat. If only I even use brass in carbon rims!!! I'm sure that will raise the ire of someone too. Oh well, what can I do. Everybody has their own way, I take nothing to chance, especially a nipple.

And that, sir, is an admirable and commendable approach at customer service.
Let's face it, the few dozen grams that the average punter saves with alu nips won't make a bit of difference at the club races.
Nothing slower than a broken nipple.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

And that, sir, is an admirable and commendable approach at customer service.
Let's face it, the few dozen grams that the average punter saves with alu nips won't make a bit of difference at the club races.
Nothing slower than a broken nipple.

Yessir, weight wise we're only talking about 20 total grams difference per wheel between alu and brass. I realized this when I emptied my pocket change on the gram scale out of curiosity, 3 qarters, 2 dimes and a nickle, one dollar exact. 20g, that's it?!?!?!!?! I said. Never used an aluminum nipple since, been about 3 years.

 

[42x16ss]

Yessir, weight wise we're only talking about 20 total grams difference per wheel between alu and brass. I realized this when I emptied my pocket change on the gram scale out of curiosity, 3 qarters, 2 dimes and a nickle, one dollar exact. 20g, that's it?!?!?!!?! I said. Never used an aluminum nipple since, been about 3 years.

I remember my Grandfather (who learned to build wheels in the 50's) reacting to the wheels that came with a new racing bike I got for Xmas one year. He refused to let me race it until he went over the entire bike with a fine tooth comb.

One of the first things he did was rebuild the standard Mavic wheels - with new spokes and brass nipples instead of the alloy ones it came with. When he taught me how to build wheels he said to always use brass, it's less brittle and much more forgiving.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Yessir, weight wise we're only talking about 20 total grams difference per wheel between alu and brass. I realized this when I emptied my pocket change on the gram scale out of curiosity, 3 qarters, 2 dimes and a nickle, one dollar exact. 20g, that's it?!?!?!!?! I said. Never used an aluminum nipple since, been about 3 years.

I agree. I never use aluminum nipps because they are more prone to damage, deformation, failure and do nothing in terms of any wheel reliability or performance.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

I remember my Grandfather (who learned to build wheels in the 50's) reacting to the wheels that came with a new racing bike I got for Xmas one year. He refused to let me race it until he went over the entire bike with a fine tooth comb.

Makes me laugh.... I have exactly the same thing with Antonio Mondonico (old frame builder from near Monza, now retired) - he built both my steel road frames that are in use to this day & whenever I visit with my bike, he will NOT let me put it together - he insists on doing it, cleans & lubs everything.....

He puts my wheels in the jig and checks them - the biggest honour he can bestow on me is to not adjust them - means I have built them properly

 

[ethnik]

Need advice on wheels for the lady

Well, the lady has taken the plunge of her own volition! She has picked up a BMC Streetracer at an insanely good price. Now, on to the matter of some new wheels to replace the Alex boat anchors on that bike...

I am looking for advice for a reasonable, durable yet lightweight handbuilt wheelset.

Rider weight - 105 lbs
Average ride length - 60-90 minutes
Road conditions - 60% relatively good blacktop with some chip and seal, 40% rough roads with lots of chip and seal and some frost heave.

Rim - tubular
Tire choice -planning on running 25`s for some extra comfort to offset the harshness of her frame at her weight.

So, something that will smooth out the road and has a reasonable weight. She is so tiny that something in the 1300-1400 gram neighbourhood would be fine. Below $1K for the set if at all possible, though à little bit over is ok.

Have been looking at some stock wheelsets, but frankly am underwhelmed other than by a set of HED Ardennes SL tubs on sale at Competitive Cyclist.

I am totally new to the custom wheel world and have loads of learning to do on rim brands, I therefore defer to your collective experience and expertise.

Many thanks,

michael

 

[42x16ss]

Well, the lady has taken the plunge of her own volition! She has picked up a BMC Streetracer at an insanely good price. Now, on to the matter of some new wheels to replace the Alex boat anchors on that bike...

I am looking for advice for a reasonable, durable yet lightweight handbuilt wheelset.

Rider weight - 105 lbs
Average ride length - 60-90 minutes
Road conditions - 60% relatively good blacktop with some chip and seal, 40% rough roads with lots of chip and seal and some frost heave.

Rim - tubular
Tire choice -planning on running 25`s for some extra comfort to offset the harshness of her frame at her weight.

So, something that will smooth out the road and has a reasonable weight. She is so tiny that something in the 1300-1400 gram neighbourhood would be fine. Below $1K for the set if at all possible, though à little bit over is ok.

Have been looking at some stock wheelsets, but frankly am underwhelmed other than by a set of HED Ardennes SL tubs on sale at Competitive Cyclist.

I am totally new to the custom wheel world and have loads of learning to do on rim brands, I therefore defer to your collective experience and expertise.

Many thanks,

michael

I'd look at Ambrosio rims - your wife is probably light enought to get away with F20's daily but if you are unsure try Montreals. Get them laced to Ultegra or Chorus hubs with Sapim CX Rays and you will have a fast, long lasting wheelset.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Well, the lady has taken the plunge of her own volition! She has picked up a BMC Streetracer at an insanely good price. Now, on to the matter of some new wheels to replace the Alex boat anchors on that bike...

I am looking for advice for a reasonable, durable yet lightweight handbuilt wheelset.

Rider weight - 105 lbs
Average ride length - 60-90 minutes
Road conditions - 60% relatively good blacktop with some chip and seal, 40% rough roads with lots of chip and seal and some frost heave.

Rim - tubular
Tire choice -planning on running 25`s for some extra comfort to offset the harshness of her frame at her weight.

So, something that will smooth out the road and has a reasonable weight. She is so tiny that something in the 1300-1400 gram neighbourhood would be fine. Below $1K for the set if at all possible, though à little bit over is ok.

Have been looking at some stock wheelsets, but frankly am underwhelmed other than by a set of HED Ardennes SL tubs on sale at Competitive Cyclist.

I am totally new to the custom wheel world and have loads of learning to do on rim brands, I therefore defer to your collective experience and expertise.

Many thanks,

michael

DT hubs, velocity Escape rims, thin spokes front and LH rear, 24F, 28R, 2 cross. brass nipps

 

[vorsprung]

blog post on rim swap

I've never seen a step-by-step guide on how to switch to a new rim. Probably as it is blindingly obvious ;D But I did this at the weekend and I've done a blog post on it

Rim Swaps made easy

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I've never seen a step-by-step guide on how to switch to a new rim. Probably as it is blindingly obvious ;D But I did this at the weekend and I've done a blog post on it

Rim Swaps made easy

One of the cardinal sins of wheel building, the famous rim swap. Maybe coincidentally you picked this up from the recent issue of Urban Velo who also has a feature on this. Thought about writing them about how wrong this practice is. Don't use used spokes!!! In the time it took you to learn how to do it wrong, you could have just done it right in the first place.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

One of the cardinal sins of wheel building, the famous rim swap. Maybe coincidentally you picked this up from the recent issue of Urban Velo who also has a feature on this. Thought about writing them about how wrong this practice is. Don't use used spokes!!! In the time it took you to learn how to do it wrong, you could have just done it right in the first place.

Sorta. Have a customer who put a dent in a fairly new rear wheel, Velocity Fusion rim. Spokes are not tweaked or damaged, rim is still true, just dented and he wants a new one. Gonna reuse the spokes, not the nipps(brass) but there is nothing wrong with the spokes. If the wheel is old or potatoe chipped, stress on the spokes means new ones but for a fairly recent wheel...I don't change 'em.

 

[JayKosta]

If the rim was hit hard enough to cause a dent, that means that a spoke (or several) also had a large shock which could have weakened the connection point with the hub.
Those spokes are more likely to break if they get more hard shocks.

If the customer is expecting 'new wheel' performance from just a rim swap, then there might be complaints if spokes break earlier than expected.
If the customer knows & understands the possible problem of using old spokes, then fine.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

 

[Black wallnut]

I'm a Clyde. I keep having problems with the oem rear wheel on my new road bike. I have CXP22 now. MY LBS will be talking to the manufacturer for a warranty upgrade. 95% + of my riding is on chipseal roads. As of last weekend I've ridden 3K miles in the last year and project my total for this year to be a bit over 4K. I am mostly concerned about durability and secondly price, I can not afford light weight. I'm hoping to spend not more than $300. In this price range what would be the best wheel/hub/ spoke combination for a handbuilt. TIA.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I'm a Clyde. I keep having problems with the oem rear wheel on my new road bike. I have CXP22 now. MY LBS will be talking to the manufacturer for a warranty upgrade. 95% + of my riding is on chipseal roads. As of last weekend I've ridden 3K miles in the last year and project my total for this year to be a bit over 4K. I am mostly concerned about durability and secondly price, I can not afford light weight. I'm hoping to spend not more than $300. In this price range what would be the best wheel/hub/ spoke combination for a handbuilt. TIA.

Clyde can mean a pretty big range, what are you weighing in at right now?