When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

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Mar 10, 2009
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IzzyStradlin said:
Were there any "standers" pre-EPO/blood doping? Even just going back to Lemond days, big climbs looked a lot different.

Pantani, Ricco, Horner - What could they have in common?
Well only one comes to mind and that is Hererra. He rode in the time of Lemond and was a columbian climber. He was feared enough that in big tours the racers went harder on the flat stages to kill his legs.
Gert Jan Thunnise or how ever you spell it was a stander. He got popped for testosterone if I remember correctly.

Dw You say that power is power. well it is delivered differently. for example Cipollini was reported to generate 1200 watts in a sprint. Maybe 30 to 40 seconds max ATP storage. He delivers huge power for a very short time. He was a bigger rider so say 70 to 75 kilos or 16 to 17 watts a KG. more than double the sustained climbing estimates given to GC riders. What is the magic number 6.7 w/kg?

Anecdotally it looks that many good climbers only stand to separate from the group they are riding with ostensibly because they can generate more power for the time they stand.
Now if a rider already has adapted to the stresses of standing such that it is not a penalty, he can stand longer and generate higher power numbers during this period such that average watts/KG are higher over say 15 to 20 minutes rather than the 3 to 5 most sitters can generate.
Add steepness and this can be the weapon Ch has for the steep climbs.
Again a feature of last years Vuelta?
I know of no such research that would support or disprove this idea.
It is one of the obviously different things about his particular abilities and frankly in the face of this conundrum I just wonder how much this rather significant difference in his racing approach than almost all the peloton.
 
May 13, 2009
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Armstong was probably one that "danced on his pedals" more than most up those inclines. In fact friends and I timed the amount of time he spent out of his saddle at a time and we tried to replicate it on much lesser inclines and there was no chance to even come close.
 
robow7 said:
Armstong was probably one that "danced on his pedals" more than most up those inclines. In fact friends and I timed the amount of time he spent out of his saddle at a time and we tried to replicate it on much lesser inclines and there was no chance to even come close.
Virenque in the 90s could do consecutive 1st cat and HC-climbs almost without sitting down (except on the descents of course).
 
Mar 10, 2009
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What about other current riders? I Can't think of any Italians? Contador stands a lot but not most of the time. Spaniards, Columbians?
I can't see Armstrong standing for long periods? He certainly stood to attack or counter but I see him sitting and pulling at his shorts. I think the dancing was a description of Phil Liggett to illustrate the ease with which he pedals.
 
Master50 said:
Well only one comes to mind and that is Hererra.
I was thinking Hinault:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJs37kTAawo
Both out of the saddle a fair amount, but neither is close to a Pantani or Horner.

Physiologically, out of the saddle is less efficient on long climbs. You hold your body up with your arms, those muscles need blood, less blood goes to legs. There's really no way around it. Riding tempo standing is a waste, unless you have......I don't know.....O2 to spare???

Horner's standing the whole time is just as odd as Froome wacky super-RPM attacks.
 
Master50 said:
I can't see Armstrong standing for long periods? He certainly stood to attack or counter but I see him sitting and pulling at his shorts.
He could just attack so many times. The replays of last few k's of a lot of those climbs gave the impression he was out of the saddle more than he was.
 
kingjr said:
Virenque in the 90s could do consecutive 1st cat and HC-climbs almost without sitting down (except on the descents of course).
virenque on croix de chabouret 1997 is the most epic i've seen. basically sprinting out of the saddle for 30 minutes. papy doesn't come close but he's awesome nonetheless
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Cool tactic by ol Chris. Dropping out to save race days. As we all know since Spt. 2014; the less racing, the better the GT gets... I see magical things coming for the Giro. Anything less than 6 stage wins and overall win would be an underachievment.
 
So..... Pappy Horner appears injured-at least tendinitis for now- I bet by a month he'll be forced to stop racing all together to get surgery, so he'll be on "recovery" for two months & be ready to "smash" the Vuelta once more.....

is "injury" the new code word for dope?
 
hfer07 said:
So..... Pappy Horner appears injured-at least tendinitis for now- I bet by a month he'll be forced to stop racing all together to get surgery, so he'll be on "recovery" for two months & be ready to "smash" the Vuelta once more.....

is "injury" the new code word for dope?
"Winning" is the codeword for dope.:rolleyes:
 
Nov 8, 2012
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hfer07 said:
So..... Pappy Horner appears injured-at least tendinitis for now- I bet by a month he'll be forced to stop racing all together to get surgery, so he'll be on "recovery" for two months & be ready to "smash" the Vuelta once more.....

is "injury" the new code word for dope?
Maybe "tendinitis" is the new code word for tendinitis.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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hfer07 said:
So..... Pappy Horner appears injured-at least tendinitis for now- I bet by a month he'll be forced to stop racing all together to get surgery, so he'll be on "recovery" for two months & be ready to "smash" the Vuelta once more.....

is "injury" the new code word for dope?
Why wait for Vuelta? The normal formula is to stop racing completely (as you said) now, and then only needing 2 race days to be in perfect storm form.
Remember: He has already 13 race days. Two more and he is at his max for a GT-winning preparation. So I guess 2 stages in Trenntino, and then 6 stage wins at the Giro.
 
FoxxyBrown1111 said:
Why wait for Vuelta? The normal formula is to stop racing completely (as you said) now, and then only needing 2 race days to be in perfect storm form.
Remember: He has already 13 race days. Two more and he is at his max for a GT-winning preparation. So I guess 2 stages in Trenntino, and then 6 stage wins at the Giro.
I hope this is tongue-in-cheek and you don't really think there's a "formula"?
 
Jul 21, 2012
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FoxxyBrown1111 said:
Cool tactic by ol Chris. Dropping out to save race days. As we all know since Spt. 2014; the less racing, the better the GT gets... I see magical things coming for the Giro. Anything less than 6 stage wins and overall win would be an underachievment.
racing the two hardest stages and then skipping a flat stage and a 9 km ITT.. A tactical masterstroke.

He couldnt even beat the clean Porte, so how do you know he is doping?
 
the sceptic said:
racing the two hardest stages and then skipping a flat stage and a 9 km ITT.. A tactical masterstroke.

He couldnt even beat the clean Porte, so how do you know he is doping?
To the bolded, there's an assumption that a recent grand tour winner who experienced a miraculous transformation consistent with so many dopers before him is clean.

On probability alone, that doesn't work. Of course, I could be missing the satire.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Oha, Mr "I-beat-old-doper-records-on-one-leg" Horner is a no show at Cataluna (losing 47 secs in 3 km), even though minimal race days so far (which, as some posters argued, should be his magic formula for success).

Just another one-and-done ex-Saunier-Duval Vuelta-villain who got scared...
 
Aug 13, 2009
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FoxxyBrown1111 said:
Oha, Mr "I-beat-old-doper-records-on-one-leg" Horner is a no show at Cataluna (losing 47 secs in 3 km), even though minimal race days so far (which, as some posters argued, should be his magic formula for success).

Just another one-and-done ex-Saunier-Duval Vuelta-villain who got scared...
I would not be so quick to jump on his grave. Tendinitis, illness, and antibiotics in the last 10 days......Still gotta wonder if we will ever see the same form he had at ToC in 2011 or the Vuelta.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Race Radio said:
I would not be so quick to jump on his grave. Tendinitis, illness, and antibiotics in the last 10 days......Still gotta wonder if we will ever see the same form he had at ToC in 2011 or the Vuelta.
Same as in the Vuelta. We shall not forget that he rode on one leg, the other heavily taped, forcing him to ride out of the saddle for felt 2 hours per day...
 
Aug 13, 2009
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FoxxyBrown1111 said:
Same as in the Vuelta. We shall not forget that he rode on one leg, the other heavily taped, forcing him to ride out of the saddle for felt 2 hours per day...
True.....plus tendonitis is a great excuse for a Cortisone TUE. Just ask Vokler and the Eurocar boys
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Race Radio said:
True.....plus tendonitis is a great excuse for a Cortisone TUE. Just ask Vokler and the Eurocar boys
Question about cortisone. I recently had a little scare with my achilles. I had been doing calf raises with too much weight and injured my tendon. one treatment was a cortisone shot but the doctor said endure the pain for a couple of days as cortisone shots can eventually have the opposite effect and the next problem is a rupture? IE cortisone has a short term benefit but long term use can weaken certain connective tissues?
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Master50 said:
Question about cortisone. I recently had a little scare with my achilles. I had been doing calf raises with too much weight and injured my tendon. one treatment was a cortisone shot but the doctor said endure the pain for a couple of days as cortisone shots can eventually have the opposite effect and the next problem is a rupture? IE cortisone has a short term benefit but long term use can weaken certain connective tissues?
I recently learnt a similar thing, which seemed incredible given its prevalence for saddle sore usage: prolonged cortisone usage leads to thinner skin.
 

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