When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

[Oldman]

A lot of clean riders in the 90s and 2000s were considered subpar but they didn't dope and in current conditions are finally showing how good they were in a clean peloton. In that context Chris just hung in long enough to show how good he is when the race is tailor made for a rider like him. Great climber not so good at the TT. Vuelta had climbs tailored for his particular talent and the field was within his grip. Will he ever repeat? I would not bet on it but I would not bet against it either. We recognize it is possible that CH is cheating but even more amazing is what super dope that can turn a donkey into a 43 year old race horse is revealed. You know a guy who has to race into his 40s so he can afford to retire. How can anyone love bike racing enough to be a pro into your 40s? I am sorry that you might be angry at your own issues because I can't see how he is cheating and so far I have not seen a single post that identifies it. You say he cannot possibly win at 42 and from the talent you give him credit for he would have to dope in such an obvious way that even you could figure it out. If he is micro managing his blood profile it still means he is a great rider because the donkeys are getting caught now. CH has no superstar profile and no one is protecting him insomuch as you might like to believe the UCI protects riders they are not protecting CH. If anything it would play very well if they can prove a 42 year old that wins a grand tour must be cheating. I am sure we all appreciate your reluctance but you need a step back because you are getting over the top. You might remember that when LA was running his game CH was in the USA because he was not having any success in Euro land. He was winning US races of course I am sure all this has been said several times.

You've missed several of mine. I like the guy but he just hasn't been caught. UCI isn't protecting him; he's that good at being inaccessible when they're looking for him. Is he talented? Yes. That talented. Yes. So are most of the other guys going over the line...did you watch the last Tour stage?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Isn't he going to come out later and say, "nah nah I was just kidding. I really love Horner, got his poster on my wall. Just wanted to play with you all."?

You know what? A big big phuk you! I have witnesses with the Froome/Sky issues. It´s not my fault that some of you are hypocrites, that´s why I was here for balance.
It´s ok if smart people try to insult me. But I don´t accept it from simpletons like you. Basically incapable of thinking your own, but to blabber what others said. That´s why your posts lack consistency.
You are one of the worst hypocrites: Always hating in the Sky threads, but insulting me here when I do the same with an even worse doper.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

A lot of clean riders in the 90s and 2000s were considered subpar but they didn't dope and in current conditions are finally showing how good they were in a clean peloton. In that context Chris just hung in long enough to show how good he is when the race is tailor made for a rider like him. Great climber not so good at the TT. Vuelta had climbs tailored for his particular talent and the field was within his grip. Will he ever repeat? I would not bet on it but I would not bet against it either. We recognize it is possible that CH is cheating but even more amazing is what super dope that can turn a donkey into a 43 year old race horse is revealed. You know a guy who has to race into his 40s so he can afford to retire. How can anyone love bike racing enough to be a pro into your 40s? I am sorry that you might be angry at your own issues because I can't see how he is cheating and so far I have not seen a single post that identifies it. You say he cannot possibly win at 42 and from the talent you give him credit for he would have to dope in such an obvious way that even you could figure it out. If he is micro managing his blood profile it still means he is a great rider because the donkeys are getting caught now. CH has no superstar profile and no one is protecting him insomuch as you might like to believe the UCI protects riders they are not protecting CH. If anything it would play very well if they can prove a 42 year old that wins a grand tour must be cheating. I am sure we all appreciate your reluctance but you need a step back because you are getting over the top. You might remember that when LA was running his game CH was in the USA because he was not having any success in Euro land. He was winning US races of course I am sure all this has been said several times.

6-

I think your posts itself are a lot of wasted hard disk space. All your "arguments" were debunked as myth at least a hundred times here... and still you havn´t answered my simple question: How can a clean rider post his highest W/kg at age 42 at the Vuelta 2013, and get close to the "donkey" (as you described some of his opponents) times of the dark era (late 90s/early 00s) when he lost his job in europe on a 2nd tier team?
Instead of repeating your same nonsense from time to time, answer my simple question in a reasoned way, and I´ll get convinced that now 43 year old Horner is a clean rider.

Your posts are lacking logic in its simplest ways.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Isn't he going to come out later and say, "nah nah I was just kidding. I really love Horner, got his poster on my wall. Just wanted to play with you all."?

You know what? A big big **** you! I have witnesses with the Froome/Sky issues. It´s not my fault that some of you are hypocrites, that´s why I was here for balance.
It´s ok if smart people try to insult me. But I don´t accept it from simpletons like you. Basically incapable of thinking your own, but to blabber what others said. That´s why your posts lack consistency.
You are one of the worst hypocrites: Always hating in the Sky threads, but insulting me here when I do the same with an even worse doper.

 

[Master50]

6-

I think your posts itself are a lot of wasted hard disk space. All your "arguments" were debunked as myth at least a hundred times here... and still you havn´t answered my simple question: How can a clean rider post his highest W/kg at age 42 at the Vuelta 2013, and get close to the "donkey" (as you described some of his opponents) times of the dark era (late 90s/early 00s) when he lost his job in europe on a 2nd tier team?
Instead of repeating your same nonsense from time to time, answer my simple question in a reasoned way, and I´ll get convinced that now 43 year old Horner is a clean rider.

Your posts are lacking logic in its simplest ways.

It seems you and I are asking the same question. you say it is doping and I am asking how so? I don't know that he posted his highest W/KG at 42? Where did that get established? in this thread? Sorry that has not been proven here since at best it is a guesstimate. You have his numbers up Brasstown bald in the first Tour of Georgia? I am trying to understand how if he is doped that he is getting away with it? You say it is so obvious and he has to be so boosted it cannot be hidden yet nothing? Of course you have all your conspiracy theories to cover that up. Another point is I have never said he is clean only that no one has offered the mechanism of his cheating. In the context of his entire racing career I just don't arrive at the same conclusion and I have been following his career since the late 90s. Until he is caught I am not jumping in the tub. As for Logic? 2 points. My Boolean algebra scores were in the high %90 and I get paid very well for my reasoning skills. My skills are measured and well established. 2 CH waited 20+ years to cross the line? At a time when anti doping has turned down the heat if not turned the tide. Reveal the methods he is using to cheat and you will be an anti doping hero. Of course I realize your default is that doping has not decreased. Hey Frenchmen are doing well again so doping must be decreasing:roll eyes:.
If there is some super doping stuff going on here that turns a 42 year old into a gt winner I want to know what it is too. That he is still so eager and enthusiastic to race at 43 is what really scares me.

 

[Afrank]

Stop posting that Foxxy, insults are against the rules.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Stop posting that Foxxy, insults are against the rules.

But the rules are only counting against me? And I am open to get insulted? You don´t realize I just defend myself, don´t you? Amazing...

 

[Afrank]

Dear Wiggo didn't insult you in that post (or at least not as blatantly as you did). Just to be safe I deleted both posts anyway to avoid the conflict.

 

[IzzyStradlin]

Horner is a nice guy. He is a fun bike racer. He is smart, but not quite as smart as he thinks he is.

Horner is doping. He has always doped.

He released the evidence himself:
http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/post/63542182838/analysis-horners-biopassport-data

He is one of the most popular riders in the US but could not find a team last year. Not because of his price. Because everybody knows that Horner is doping.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Dear Wiggo didn't insult you in that post (or at least not as blatantly as you did). Just to be safe I deleted both posts anyway to avoid the conflict.

That´s your opinion. I may used harder words, but the result is the same. His only intention was to ridicule me in front of others. Now I can take some flak, but not baseless ones. Those I hit back. So next time please see the context. Thx upfront.
BTW, as you may I realize I never insult one upfront. Never happened. Take that into account too...

 

[Oldman]

It seems you and I are asking the same question. you say it is doping and I am asking how so? I don't know that he posted his highest W/KG at 42? Where did that get established? in this thread? Sorry that has not been proven here since at best it is a guesstimate. You have his numbers up Brasstown bald in the first Tour of Georgia? I am trying to understand how if he is doped that he is getting away with it? You say it is so obvious and he has to be so boosted it cannot be hidden yet nothing? Of course you have all your conspiracy theories to cover that up. Another point is I have never said he is clean only that no one has offered the mechanism of his cheating. In the context of his entire racing career I just don't arrive at the same conclusion and I have been following his career since the late 90s. Until he is caught I am not jumping in the tub. As for Logic? 2 points. My Boolean algebra scores were in the high %90 and I get paid very well for my reasoning skills. My skills are measured and well established. 2 CH waited 20+ years to cross the line? At a time when anti doping has turned down the heat if not turned the tide. Reveal the methods he is using to cheat and you will be an anti doping hero. Of course I realize your default is that doping has not decreased. Hey Frenchmen are doing well again so doping must be decreasing:roll eyes:.
If there is some super doping stuff going on here that turns a 42 year old into a gt winner I want to know what it is too. That he is still so eager and enthusiastic to race at 43 is what really scares me.

So you may just be a captive of your own logic.
I can tell you again; folks in Bend know some of his medical help. He avoids testing when riding in Bend. You're choosing to ignore facts.
I've raced in events with him and can attest to his skills. They took a large jump in the 90's domestically when he could ride up the back of Howell Mtn. in the big ring dropping everyone by a minute in 2km. It started a long time ago.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Horner is a nice guy. He is a fun bike racer. He is smart, but not quite as smart as he thinks he is.

Horner is doping. He has always doped.

He released the evidence himself:
http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/post/63542182838/analysis-horners-biopassport-data

He is one of the most popular riders in the US but could not find a team last year. Not because of his price. Because everybody knows that Horner is doping.

Amen...

 

[red_flanders]

It seems you and I are asking the same question. you say it is doping and I am asking how so? I don't know that he posted his highest W/KG at 42? Where did that get established? in this thread? Sorry that has not been proven here since at best it is a guesstimate. You have his numbers up Brasstown bald in the first Tour of Georgia? I am trying to understand how if he is doped that he is getting away with it? You say it is so obvious and he has to be so boosted it cannot be hidden yet nothing?

No, it's not been proven. However it's clear to anyone that his performance in the Vuelta last year was his best performance ever, and done in a GT with recovery being a major factor. He was great in Georgia, but that's a minor (relatively) 1 week stage race. So at age 42(?) he had his best performance ever. Is there any argument that this is very suspicious?

Of course you have all your conspiracy theories to cover that up. Another point is I have never said he is clean only that no one has offered the mechanism of his cheating.

How would anyone know "how" he's cheating if he is? Are you asking people to speculate on the exact methods? To what end? We can see from performance that his Vuelta was deep into the suspicious zone, and we really don't see where Horner is the genetic freak to change what's humanly possible, do we?

Where was this prodigious talent in his earlier years?

I would say that he rode extremely well in the US, dominating the scene for several years. His first stint in Europe wasn't good, but I can overlook that in terms of whether he was a good rider, but if he were a truly great, dominant talent that would eventually push what's possible clean, he'd have been a different rider as a younger guy.

...

2 CH waited 20+ years to cross the line? At a time when anti doping has turned down the heat if not turned the tide. Reveal the methods he is using to cheat and you will be an anti doping hero. Of course I realize your default is that doping has not decreased. Hey Frenchmen are doing well again so doping must be decreasing:roll eyes:.

You've established that he waited 20+ years? I don't see that. Nor do I see where anyone suggested this.

If there is some super doping stuff going on here that turns a 42 year old into a gt winner I want to know what it is too. That he is still so eager and enthusiastic to race at 43 is what really scares me.

All fitness isn't about dope. You can be doping for years, get on a better program, have a successful early training season, just do everything right and have wildly different results, can't you? Clean or dirty?

Blood doping would easily explain his Vuelta performance. Is that what he's doing? No one here knows, and no one needs to in order to form the opinion that he's doping.

 

[IzzyStradlin]

If there is some super doping stuff going on here that turns a 42 year old into a gt winner I want to know what it is too.

He is microdosing EPO and dropping a blood bag every once in awhile. Same as everybody else. As he himself has revealed, he is willing to push the his passport right up to the limit.

Yes, he is super-motivated. Dude likes to ride bikes.

I bet he had the form to podium in the 2010 Tour, but he stayed loyal to Lance instead.

 

[GuyIncognito]

'Not been proven'. That's funny.

If beating Contador's climbing time up Anglirú wasn't his best performance, I really want to know what that was.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

That´s your opinion. I may used harder words, but the result is the same. His only intention was to ridicule me in front of others. Now I can take some flak, but not baseless ones. Those I hit back. So next time please see the context. Thx upfront.
BTW, as you may I realize I never insult one upfront. Never happened. Take that into account too...

Huh? You spent the whole time defending Wiggo / SKy then came out and said - I was only joking, I think they are doping. You wrote that. I read the post. Are you now denying that's what you wrote?

You basically admitted to trolling the whole time.

And yet you feel insulted because I point this out by suggesting you will repeat the pattern?

You ridiculed yourself when you outed yourself as a troll.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Love you all. I thought I was alone vs the master. Great that Horner cracked. I was about to vomit and throw my TV. I guess more bags needed for him in Spain...

 

[Oldman]

Love you all. I thought I was alone vs the master. Great that Horner cracked. I was about to vomit and throw my TV. I guess more bags needed for him in Spain...

He's not unaware of the power of the press. NBC Sports virtually didn't speak of him until half the peloton had crashed out and he was the second American. He's going to be ready for the Vuelta.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

He's not unaware of the power of the press. NBC Sports virtually didn't speak of him until half the peloton had crashed out and he was the second American. He's going to be ready for the Vuelta.

The last chance to catch him. If he doesn´t hide in different hotels again, and blames the authorities for his silly LA tactics. What a ba$terd.
He´s clever, no doubt. But I am still optimistic, his embarassing positive day will come...

 

[9000ft]

Love you all. I thought I was alone vs the master. Great that Horner cracked. I was about to vomit and throw my TV. I guess more bags needed for him in Spain...

Vomit and throw your TV? Boy, some of you guys take your bike racing very serious, don't you? LOL

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Vomit and throw your TV? Boy, some of you guys take your bike racing very serious, don't you? LOL

Only him. Otherwise I am pretty relaxed...
This clown is insulting my brain. That hurts...

 

[Benotti69]

Vomit and throw your TV? Boy, some of you guys take your bike racing very serious, don't you? LOL

Not as serious as the dopers

 

[red_flanders]

Love you all. I thought I was alone vs the master. Great that Horner cracked. I was about to vomit and throw my TV. I guess more bags needed for him in Spain...

Let's not get carried away. It is a fact that the guy is coming back from major injury. That would seem a more tangible reason for lack of performance that the "Vuelta is dirtier" Walsh-esque cloak and dagger theories. Haven't seen much real evidence of that, though happy to be convinced otherwise.

 

[Energy Starr]

A funny thing has happened during this tour. I'm not a Horner fan and I do believe he is(was) doped to the gills. I couldn't stand the ridiculous speech after the Vuelta last year. However, during this tour, from the interviews that I saw, he was by far the best interview of any of the riders. He seems interested, candid, insightful, and MAYBE even honest. I started to look forward to his interviews. He actually seemed to provide some insight and maybe said what others wouldn't. Strange how I feel about him now as opposed to before.

 

[red_flanders]

A funny thing has happened during this tour. I'm not a Horner fan and I do believe he is(was) doped to the gills. I couldn't stand the ridiculous speech after the Vuelta last year. However, during this tour, from the interviews that I saw, he was by far the best interview of any of the riders. He seems interested, candid, insightful, and MAYBE even honest. I started to look forward to his interviews. He actually seemed to provide some insight and maybe said what others wouldn't. Strange how I feel about him now as opposed to before.

Yep, he's always been amongst the most straightforward and insightful about tactics and what's happening in the race, and he is infectiously enthusiastic. He's going to be a great commentator going forward.