When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

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Jun 19, 2009
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Poursuivant said:
His reaction to Armstrong being burned by USADA spoke volumes. Wasn't there a lot of quotes from him years ago giving US Postal stick? I wonder what changed? Who got in his ear? What got in his veins?
Money and support from the same machine that fueled Armstrong. You know they have volumes of evidence.
 
Poursuivant said:
His reaction to Armstrong being burned by USADA spoke volumes. Wasn't there a lot of quotes from him years ago giving US Postal stick? I wonder what changed? Who got in his ear? What got in his veins?
Never tested positive.

“I read the news like everyone else but you look at it with Lance and it’s the same stories that have been going around for years, forever, and it’s been relived and recycled many times. Lance has always come out clean from it.”

He continued to say, “I don’t believe Armstrong has cheated in any way to win those victories and he’s gone through an insane amount of testing. Do we have pictures of it? Video or testing? Because without that you really don’t have anything.”
"Did he test positive?" he replies when asked about Armstrong's case with USADA.

Nowadays such a response leaves most people cringing. Armstrong did test positive for a steroid in 1999 and was given a post-dated exemption form from the UCI. But Horner continues.

"Look, I'm certainly old enough and wise enough to understand the magnitude of the situation, but in the end he's still getting prosecuted with no positive test. A lot of guys say they saw him and a lot say he did this and he did that, but I look at it and say: 'USADA, WADA, UCI, they're saying that the tests are worthless.' So do you take all the tests, 500, 1000, I don't know the number I've done in my own career and you basically say, that you took them for no reason?"
"And again I understand and I'm clear on how much information is out there on what Lance is said to have done but I'm also clear on the fact that he's passed all of his tests. Are you supposed to go back and erase those memories? I remember the 2005 Tour de France and Lance was the best guy there and he past all the tests and won the Tour. I'm not going to debate if he won, he was there, he won and passed the tests."

So if a cheat passes all tests, that's good enough? What about retrospective testing, testimony and accountability?

"It's the UCI's job, it's WADA's job, it's USADA's job to come up with a test so riders can't cheat. If they find the guys who cheated then those guys have to go, it's that simple," Horner said.

"Maybe USADA have found the guys who have cheated but.... for me, you won the race (if) you passed the test. Lance won seven Tours de France and that's what I saw and the moments I enjoyed and that the way it's going to stay."
 
Oldman said:
That's why his domestic results are more representative of his potential, both early and later. Almost every Euro team that hired him intended that he shepherd the Team Stud in the mountains. Hard to get a stage or GC finish with that job description. Contador was given pretty free reign early on and "responded" with results. Armstrong was one of the few career obstacles he faced within a team.
Doesn't mean Chris is clean or dirty now.
The other side of that is the question of why he was never given free reign. Contador was given free reign because his numbers and performance in races in training showed very clearly what he was. While Horner is a very good rider and I agree could have done more given more chances, he was never a guy so good he made it an easy or obvious choice for a DS to protect him in a GT.

His TT has been a big part of that evaluation.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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red_flanders said:
The other side of that is the question of why he was never given free reign. Contador was given free reign because his numbers and performance in races in training showed very clearly what he was. While Horner is a very good rider and I agree could have done more given more chances, he was never a guy so good he made it an easy or obvious choice for a DS to protect him in a GT.

His TT has been a big part of that evaluation.
Absolutely. He also has been a somewhat late arrival at many teams and gravitated to the support role instead of staking a claim. Of course there was never any room for a premier rider in Armstrong's camp. Floyd and others learned that; sometimes the hard way. Chris went for the obvious bigger pay days which happens to the older mercenary rider.
 
That quote was made after Sierra Road and Baldy, certainly seemed legit at the time, just took another two years to be seen on a GT.

red_flanders said:
The other side of that is the question of why he was never given free reign. Contador was given free reign because his numbers and performance in races in training showed very clearly what he was. While Horner is a very good rider and I agree could have done more given more chances, he was never a guy so good he made it an easy or obvious choice for a DS to protect him in a GT.

His TT has been a big part of that evaluation.
This...which is too bad because he can put put some good ITTs when it matters, probably comes down to motivation, like the differences at the very top level. Same goes for the hard climbs of course.
 
webvan said:
That quote was made after Sierra Road and Baldy, certainly seemed legit at the time, just took another two years to be seen on a GT.



This...which is too bad because he can put put some good ITTs when it matters, probably comes down to motivation, like the differences at the very top level. Same goes for the hard climbs of course.
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It will be interesting to see if he blows away all the other GC-guys in the ITT today. I see him finishing 3rd or 4th today, and extending his lead, but lets see.

If one wants to see the positive side of this, it gives hope that the riders fighting it out behind Horner are actually riding clean or cleanish as in no bloodbag/epo. If they were all on the same stuff Horner shouldn't come Close at his age.
 
GazelleFormula said:
Thanks. The performance in itself to me doesn't seem earth shattering for a top GT rider. I just didn't know Horner was one.

In my mind it could be he decided to go out with a bang. But I'm going to wait and see, though for those competing against him it' might be a good idea to remember that 2nd might be first in a few weeks time.
 
Imagery

JimmyFingers said:
So they are ugly right? Is that your point?
an old cyclist and an anorexic image is my point...neither a good image for Cycling. Horner looks way older than his years.

I don't think Froome is ugly, he isn't a good body image for a sportsman...Horner is an old man in the sportworld - in any sport. And to be competing in this way casts even more shadow on cycling and its drug detection.

Ugly is a horrid word and I,d never use it to describe anyone...not everyone is fortunate enough to have good looks.
 
Jul 17, 2012
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Cycle Chic said:
an old cyclist and an anorexic image is my point...neither a good image for Cycling. Horner looks way older than his years.

I don't think Froome is ugly, he isn't a good body image for a sportsman...Horner is an old man in the sportworld - in any sport. And to be competing in this way casts even more shadow on cycling and its drug detection.

Ugly is a horrid word and I,d never use it to describe anyone...not everyone is fortunate enough to have good looks.
Ok, thank you for clearing that up, and kudos for the empathy displayed at the end. Nice to see a different side of you.

And I'll give you Horner's age. I'm not one to throw accusations about, prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt, but a 41 year old outclimbing a clutch of Europe's top climbers and GT racers in their prime is barely credible. I do expect him to fade though.
 
May 16, 2012
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Cycle Chic said:
an old cyclist and an anorexic image is my point...neither a good image for Cycling. Horner looks way older than his years.

I don't think Froome is ugly, he isn't a good body image for a sportsman...Horner is an old man in the sportworld - in any sport. And to be competing in this way casts even more shadow on cycling and its drug detection.

Ugly is a horrid word and I,d never use it to describe anyone...not everyone is fortunate enough to have good looks.
You know that baldies have a tendency to look older than guys with hair? Its not really THAT abnormal for a 42 year old to be great in an endurance sport. I think that is something we have to get used to in the years to come.

I share your worries with Froome in the other hand, we need a debate on weight in cycling so we dont starve young hopefuls to death. Its a weird message to send. We have plenty of other sports that take this very serious, i dont know why cycling seem to ignore it completely.
 
Moose McKnuckles said:
That image of Horner looks a lot like Riis back in the day.

What is it with all these pro cyclists prematurely balding?
Today he will have the time trial of his life.

Nice big refill yesterday. He will ride out of his skin.

I remember when Horner rode on saunier duval. They paid him 50k per year.

Hasn't he come a long way. No wonder Ricco is laughing.
 
Feb 23, 2011
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melkemugg said:
You know that baldies have a tendency to look older than guys with hair? Its not really THAT abnormal for a 42 year old to be great in an endurance sport. I think that is something we have to get used to in the years to come
I think it is pretty abnormal for somebody who has never been an established stage race rider to ride way from a group containing some of the best climbers in the world, effortlessly. Moreover the names that were dropped from the front group are guys he would never even be close to.

That's before you even mention that he is 42.

Unbelievable in every sense of the word.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Moose McKnuckles said:
That image of Horner looks a lot like Riis back in the day.

What is it with all these pro cyclists prematurely balding?
Genetics. Some dudes suffer male pattern baldness. Horner was going bald in the mid 1990's riding for Colorado Cyclist/Nuta-Fig. He also had a ridiculous pony-tail back in those days. Horrific "sort-of" mullett.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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thehog said:
Today he will have the time trial of his life.

Nice big refill yesterday. He will ride out of his skin.

I remember when Horner rode on saunier duval. They paid him 50k per year.

Hasn't he come a long way. No wonder Ricco is laughing.
Horner has always been good, your speculation of his doping notwithstanding.

You'll also remember he begged anybody to give him another shot in Europe. And 50k a year was probably a raise from what he was making dominating the American scene at super powerhouse Prime Alliance. And if I'm not mistaken, the great reformed former druggie David Millar was also on Saunier Duval.

Call your bookie. I'm sure you can still get odds on Horner FTW.
 
Scott SoCal said:
Horner has always been good, your speculation of his doping notwithstanding.

You'll also remember he begged anybody to give him another shot in Europe. And 50k a year was probably a raise from what he was making dominating the American scene at super powerhouse Prime Alliance. And if I'm not mistaken, the great reformed former druggie David Millar was also on Saunier Duval.

Call your bookie. I'm sure you can still get odds on Horner FTW.
Correct.
He is pretty scathing about the attitude on the team to doping in his biography.
 
It seems most people here missed the 2011 TOC and particularly the Sierra Road climb, that was very, very impressive. In essence, this is Horner's first GT as a leader, we should be lamenting that he wasn't given that chance before instead of posting outlandish unsubstantiated doping related drivel.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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webvan said:
It seems most people here missed the 2011 TOC and particularly the Sierra Road climb, that was very, very impressive. In essence, this is Horner's first GT as a leader, we should be lamenting that he wasn't given that chance before instead of posting outlandish unsubstantiated doping related drivel.

So what? In the ToC 2011 he was already 39! (BTW, that´s when the clinic first took notice of him in a very bad way, inclding me)
This Horner performance is as absurd as yellow eyed Ben Johnson. It´s totally abnormal that a grandpa is dominating young riders in a GT. Unseen before. And cycling had it´s share of ugly stories. But this one is beyond everything...

I still feel vomiting. I guess i wil, after he extends his lead today.
 
Apr 14, 2010
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B_Ugli said:
I think it is pretty abnormal for somebody who has never been an established stage race rider to ride way from a group containing some of the best climbers in the world, effortlessly. .
The guy has ridden very well in shorter stage races and better than average in other GT's. Dirty or not its not like its completely out of the realm of reality that he's riding well in a somewhat weak/tired peloton only 11 days into a GT.
 

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