When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

[Oldman]

Altitude training, dude. It's new. It's modern. It's something that people from small islands that are little more than speed bumps sticking out of the ocean are unaware of. Look into it.

Horner spent a week racing in the mountains of Utah. It is almost the perfect place for such training, which can be done there without the distractions of alcohol and good times that plague other regions. The only thing one has to worry about is being sucked into a multi-level marketing scheme.

I hope you're being facetious, Bro. Bend isn't exactly sea level and his preparation there was fairly serious as others have noted. Zweistein wants to think there is no science to how Horner would train but he's wrong. He was very ready to go before Utah.
He's also wrong about the influence of Eddie B and Bruyneel; Eddie B used old school Eastern block 'roids to get guys through workouts. He was long gone before Lance showed serious promise. Carmichael's assistance was probably of some value but the real program started at Motorola with Lance seeking help beyond the team, pre-Ferrari/Bruyneel. Lance was tapping into the Euro regime at the time and having some success but not serious GT contender success.
During this entire period Horner was frozen out of any shot at a US based ProTour level team because he was a threat to Armstrong.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

without the distractions of alcohol and good times that plague other regions. The only thing one has to worry about is being sucked into a multi-level marketing scheme.

LMAO. Ain't that the truth.
I have to make trips to Cali to sneak in decent wine behind the Zion Curtain.

 

[PosterBill]

6 seconds faster then Contador on the Angliru... yea

Also beats a young guy like Nibali in a 17 minute effort which he should clearly struggle in since his V02 max should have gone down.

Google is your friend.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alto_de_L'Angliru

1999, 2000, 2002, 2008, 2011, 2013

So six times in 15 years, approximately every other year.

6 times in 15 years is not exactly a great sample size. Heck I don't see how anyone could use comparative times unless it was a time trial and even then I wouldn't feel comfortable with it because of weather. And how do you factor in racing strategy, attacking on different parts of the climb or having a comfortable enough lead that one wouldn't need to go all out.

 

[Fatclimber]

Can't light a candle that has no wick, buddy.

Thanks buddy. Especially when you don't have a flame. Buddy.

 

[nepetalactone]

Why does someone have to state the mechanism? People just get old.

...

I don't know why this even needs to be contested.

It needs to be contested because assuming that which needs to be proven is what propagates misunderstanding, misinformation, and an overall reliance on 'common sense' which, in many cases is absolutely wrong.

You don't seem to be taking into account that every pro cyclist is a genetic anomaly to begin with. Everyone ages differently, so what is it that makes 35, 40 whatever, the cut off age for cleanly winning a grand tour? It's bad arguing to state, "You can't win a GT at 41 clean because no one has ever done it before."

I'm not a biologist/physiologist/whatever. I'm not qualified to argue dirty/clean (and I never have) as I don't understand the problem adequately. That said, I am a scientist and understand very well that the quality of evidence/argument I see here is far, far below what is passable in my field. The burden of proof is on a good scientific explanation of why it's not possible, not the other way around. This anecdotal spew isn't sufficient.

Making 'scientific' claims without any real science behind them does the world far more harm then good. ...Man, I let the internet 'experts' get to me again....

 

[Scott SoCal]

Altitude training, dude. It's new. It's modern. It's something that people from small islands that are little more than speed bumps sticking out of the ocean are unaware of. Look into it.

Horner spent a week racing in the mountains of Utah. It is almost the perfect place for such training, which can be done there without the distractions of alcohol and good times that plague other regions. The only thing one has to worry about is being sucked into a multi-level marketing scheme.

That is by far and away your best post ever. Comedy on an epic, errrr legendary scale.

I think they call it 'Network Marketing' now. Blow through your friends and family then crash.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

It needs to be contested because assuming that which needs to be proven is what propagates misunderstanding, misinformation, and an overall reliance on 'common sense' which, in many cases is absolutely wrong.

You don't seem to be taking into account that every pro cyclist is a genetic anomaly to begin with. Everyone ages differently, so what is it that makes 35, 40 whatever, the cut off age for cleanly winning a grand tour? It's bad arguing to state, "You can't win a GT at 41 clean because no one has ever done it before."

I'm not a biologist/physiologist/whatever. I'm not qualified to argue dirty/clean (and I never have) as I don't understand the problem adequately. That said, I am a scientist and understand very well that the quality of evidence/argument I see here is far, far below what is passable in my field. The burden of proof is on a good scientific explanation of why it's not possible, not the other way around. This anecdotal spew isn't sufficient.

Making 'scientific' claims without any real science behind them does the world far more harm then good. ...Man, I let the internet 'experts' get to me again....

You don't understand the problem but you're evaluating the quality of the evidence? Evidence against what? You said you don't understand the problem.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

read the posts defending Horner with a bit of an open mind and definitely with a sense of humor. Nobody here believes he's clean.

 

[Merckx index]

I am a scientist and understand very well that the quality of evidence/argument I see here is far, far below what is passable in my field. The burden of proof is on a good scientific explanation of why it's not possible, not the other way around. This anecdotal spew isn't sufficient.

You seem to have the Clinic confused with a panel that has the power to suspend riders. The burden of proof is not on why it's not possible. Few here are saying that what Horner did is flat out impossible to do clean. The argument here is what is MOST LIKELY. Given Horner's age, his own published power data on some climbs, and what he was capable of at a younger age, together with the fact that he competes in a sport rife with doping, so much so that one can seriously question whether anyone has ever won a major race clean during the entire period of Horner's pro career, the most likely explanation is that he is doping. Or in the vernacular, if it walks like a duck...

All this twisting-into-a pretzel-logic designed to show that Horner could in fact have accomplished what he did clean is not necessarily wrong. It just reveals a desperate unwillingness to confront the most obvious explanation.

 

[Ferminal]

BTW, how screwed is Horner going to be now that he is released his power files? I don't think he will ever top10 another climb. Other teams will have the blueprint to beating him now!!!

 

[Scott SoCal]

BTW, how screwed is Horner going to be now that he is released his power files? I don't think he will ever top10 another climb. Other teams will have the blueprint to beating him now!!!

Gonna have to disagree. He's beating them at the game in a classically American, "in your face" style.

Yeah, whatever is going on, he's a step ahead.

 

[Ferminal]

Yes and I love that style! But the main argument against more riders publishing SRMs is that they will reveal tactical weaknesses. I mean his Pena Cabarga file shows his power dropped and speed increased when the road flattened out, what a revelation.

 

[Scott SoCal]

Yes and I love that style! But the main argument against more riders publishing SRMs is that they will reveal tactical weaknesses. I mean his Pena Cabarga file shows his power dropped and speed increased when the road flattened out, what a revelation.

What Papi needs is a TdF with 11 MTF finishes and two ITT's totaling 3.6kms.

 

[sittingbison]

Understandedly there is a bit of frothing at the mouth given Horners win, however that doesn't give anyone the right to attack or resort to personal insult other posters.

Have a bex and a good lie down when you get the inclination to do so, or it night be an even longer lie down

Capiche?

Cheers
Bison

 

[Dear Wiggo]

BTW, how screwed is Horner going to be now that he is released his power files? I don't think he will ever top10 another climb. Other teams will have the blueprint to beating him now!!!

It's probably why he doesn't have a team for 2014. Giving away trade secrets.

 

[Ripper]

So Chris Horner just laid the smackdown on the Vuelta.

Well, that was entertaining.

 

[Galic Ho]

IF Horner, Contador, Valverde, Purito, Porte, Roche, Froome all don't have a chance at winning a GT without doping. Can someone please tell me who can?
I'd really like to know.
Is there anyone, a single cyclist who you would think is capable of winning a GT in an Utopian clean peloton?

Nibali. Kreuziger. The Chicken. Ricco. Basso. You missed a few. I will thus run with one of them. We all know the Pope would make the list to if he hadn't vanished from the pro scene. Has his bank account been unfrozen by any chance by the Italian feds?

 

[EnacheV]

Nibali. Kreuziger. The Chicken. Ricco. Basso. You missed a few. I will thus run with one of them. We all know the Pope would make the list to if he hadn't vanished from the pro scene. Has his bank account been unfrozen by any chance by the Italian feds?

hahahaha

and again

hahahaha

all the guys you mentioned are heavy dopers

 

[Bala Verde]

Nice step up for Horner, from tour of Cali to tour of espana! Must be the new spanish Tarmac, very beautiful and smooth in espana tambien!

42 years old. A bit like Wiggins. One final solid season to cement your legacy. And a great way to make some cash on the side too; a riders retirement and income security investment.

I call it cyclings "big bang" theory; saying goodbye, ciao, adios, au revoir with a Big Bang. ("Bang" could incidentally be replaced with "bird" as in saying goodbye by flipping the biggest bird.)

So I say: au revoir Horner! You funny funny bald man! Enjoy the fruits of your beet root juice!

 

[RichWalk]

I really thought I'd seen 'everything' in pro cycling but Horner on the Angliru, well if thats clean cycling he's either related to Jesus or I'm Britney Spears ;-)

 

[Wergeland]

Spanish anti-doping was sent out by USADA to test Horner this morning. Horner was nowhere to be seen. They've apparently checked two hotels.

 

[Samson777]

Spanish anti-doping was sent out by USADA to test Horner this morning. Horner was nowhere to be seen. They've apparently checked two hotels.

Link...?

 

[bianchigirl]

Another story has horner disappearing down a fire escape...

 

[Cycle Chic]

http://vozpopuli.com/deportes/31680...lta-para-no-someterse-a-un-control-antidopaje

Has fled the winner of the Vuelta for not submitting to a drug test?

tweeted by Daniel Friebe

 

[manafana]

a missed test that would be pretty huge if true and certainly a nail for the doubters to hammer into him. But was he not tested last night as part of being overall winner?