When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

[richwagmn]

I was curious about the procedure myself. Not sure how the paperwork is executed, but sounds like another way to get some extra minutes warning to deal with that glow.

Or it sounds like the spanish authorities ****ed up now doesn't it?

 

[Fatclimber]

Or it sounds like the spanish authorities ****ed up now doesn't it?

Possibly, it sounds like speculation at this point. Like I said, I'm not in tune with how the procedure works but sounds like the OOC testing is still archaic. On the graphs shown previously regarding Horner's USADA OOC testing, for years he could have missed every single one and still not received a suspension (miss 3 in 1 year).

 

[red_flanders]

Agreed, but can you point out who falls into the category of those who believe Horner is dirty and Nibali is clean?

I think the point is that there is a lot of venom about Horner on the interwebs right now and no one is saying jack about Nibali. Comes with the territory of course, but while I doubt many think Nibali is clean, no one's going on the warpath about it.

Not a big deal I think.

Basically just a bunch of Sky fans who have been hearing their boy is a doper for the last couple of years looking for a performance nearly as outrageous to get incensed about.

Fan is short for fanatic and all that. It's all good fun.

 

[131313]

I was curious about the procedure myself. Not sure how the paperwork is executed, but sounds like another way to get some extra minutes warning to deal with that glow.

There is no "extra time" gained from changing your information on the whereabouts form. It's done online, and form will not actually allow you to change your whereabouts if it's not within a certain time window. It comes up with a "not acceptable" message or something like that. So, there's no way to actually delay a tester from showing up as long as the form is filled out correctly. Supposedly it was, but I have no idea. It's up to the tester to actually put in the rider's name they're testing to determine where the rider actually is--then go there.

To get all riled up about this is to suggest that the tests actually work. They only seem to work when they really want to catch a rider. Who knows though, maybe Horner will be McQuaid's Hail Mary pass to show he's "tough on doping". At this point nothing would surprise me, so maybe the smackdown on Chris Horner will be coming faster than people think...

 

[red_flanders]

Agreed, but can you point out who falls into the category of those who believe Horner is dirty and Nibali is clean?

I think the point is that there is a lot of venom about Horner on the interwebs right now and no one is saying jack about Nibali. Comes with the territory of course, but while I doubt many think Nibali is clean, no one's going on the warpath about it.

Not a big deal I think.

Basically just a bunch of Sky fans who have been hearing their boy is a doper for the last couple of years desperately looking for a performance to get incensed about. That Horner is an old man and an American fits the bill. Most of the Badzilla detractors are from the US, though of course anyone with 2 eyes is laughing. There just happen to be a lot of Americans on this site.

Fan is short for fanatic and all that. It's all good fun.

 

[the sceptic]

Does anyone actually think Nibali is clean? Im sure if he had rabid fanboys defending him there would be a heated thread about him here too.

 

[red_flanders]

Does anyone actually think Nibali is clean? Im sure if he had rabid fanboys defending him there would be a heated thread about him here too.

I thinks you're spot on, sir.

 

[silverrocket]

They were never going to get to the 2nd hotel in time. As another poster pointed out in the comments section, the 2nd hotel is 35km outside of the city in the opposite direction to the airport.

He might have played by the rules in notification but the odds were stacked against those testers getting to the 2nd hotel before 7 am. In fact I am amazed that they did.

They didn't get there before 7am, which is why Horner just left for the airport.

My question is that since someone at Radioshack, at the team hotel, told the testers where Horner was actually staying, why didn't they call up Horner and tell him the testers had screwed up but were on their way? Wouldn't it have been a good idea for Horner to stick around for another 15-20 minutes just to avoid the present media storm?

 

[red_flanders]

They didn't get there before 7am, which is why Horner just left for the airport.

My question is that since someone at Radioshack, at the team hotel, told the testers where Horner was actually staying, why didn't they call up Horner and tell him the testers had screwed up but were on their way? Wouldn't it have been a good idea for Horner to stick around for another 15-20 minutes just to avoid the present media storm?

I'd guess they did call him.

 

[Rollthedice]

Question is why is UDADA after Horner? They know something? Somebody told them aomething?

 

[hrotha]

There is no "extra time" gained from changing your information on the whereabouts form. It's done online, and form will not actually allow you to change your whereabouts if it's not within a certain time window. It comes up with a "not acceptable" message or something like that. So, there's no way to actually delay a tester from showing up as long as the form is filled out correctly. Supposedly it was, but I have no idea. It's up to the tester to actually put in the rider's name they're testing to determine where the rider actually is--then go there.

But Horner didn't use the ADAMS software in the website, he just sent an email. Or at least we've only seen the email as far as I know.

 

[zlev11]

Question is why is UDADA after Horner? They know something? Somebody told them aomething?

maybe they watched the Vuelta?

 

[Rollthedice]

maybe they watched the Vuelta?

Well I'm sure but there has to be more than that.

 

[silverrocket]

[...

At least cycling fans aren't killing each other in riots like in soccer stadiums. ...]

We can't, our arms are too weak and spindly.

 

[gooner]

Question is why is UDADA after Horner? They know something? Somebody told them aomething?

Somewhere the other day, I think it was a graph posted on twitter which showed a big increase in USADA testing on Horner in the last couple of years. If this is true, it would surely mean for certain that it is indeed him as rider 15 or whatever it was in the USADA report and they are acting from this.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I have no more illusions in the ability of a middle aged man to win a GT clean than anyone else, but this particular story strikes me as being pretty unreasonable.

Missing one OOC test is not an infringement, even if it's entirely the rider's fault. This is for the very good reason that athletes are not robots and even the cleanest, most conscientious and best organised rider will miss one eventually for some reason. A similar story appeared about Cavendish a while back and it was no fairer then.

As an aside, does anyone know what the purpose of an OOC test of the winner immediately after the finish of a stage race is supposed to be? I assume that he'd get an IC test at the end (and ones on the day before, etc)? Is the OOC test for different stuff? Why would he have taken anything new since the end of the race? What's the idea?

 

[smajo.fb]

maybe they watched the Vuelta?

(The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.)

 

[131313]

But Horner didn't use the ADAMS software in the website, he just sent an email. Or at least we've only seen the email as far as I know.

Yeah, that's the part where I said I don't know. That said, even an e-mail or text is sufficient according to the rules, as long as it's done in a "timely manner". It's not any more specific than that. Using ADAMS is good, because it documents everything for everyone and removes any questions. I honestly don't know what happens to the e-mails when they're sent, but if the governing body feels it was a deliberate attempt to avoid a test they can issue a 'missed test' or 'inaccurate filing' (they're both 1 strike). And then the rider can appeal if he disagrees with the finding. Again, I'm not really offering an opinion, just clarifying how the protocol works.

 

[TheGame]

Somewhere the other day, I think it was a graph posted on twitter which showed a big increase in USADA testing on Horner in the last couple of years. If this is true, it would surely mean for certain that it is indeed him as rider 15 or whatever it was in the USADA report and they are acting from this.

This graph?

That only shows up to June this year (So you can assume the 2013 total will be high again). USADA have been targetting Horner since early 2012.

 

[Beech Mtn]

I have no more illusions in the ability of a middle aged man to win a GT clean than anyone else, but this particular story strikes me as being pretty unreasonable.

Missing one OOC test is not an infringement, even if it's entirely the rider's fault. This is for the very good reason that athletes are not robots and even the cleanest, most conscientious and best organised rider will miss one eventually for some reason. A similar story appeared about Cavendish a while back and it was no fairer then.

As an aside, does anyone know what the purpose of an OOC test of the winner immediately after the finish of a stage race is supposed to be? I assume that he'd get an IC test at the end (and ones on the day before, etc)? Is the OOC test for different stuff? Why would he have taken anything new since the end of the race? What's the idea?

The in-competition tests were done by the UCI. The OOC test was to be done by AEA on behalf of USADA. Presumably USADA might be doing a more thorough testing panel, looking for more likely substances than UCI's tests may have done. UCI does not have the best reputation for always carrying out the most penetrating of tests, especially on high profile or "protected" riders.

 

[Catwhoorg]

I have no more illusions in the ability of a middle aged man to win a GT clean than anyone else, but this particular story strikes me as being pretty unreasonable.

Missing one OOC test is not an infringement, even if it's entirely the rider's fault. This is for the very good reason that athletes are not robots and even the cleanest, most conscientious and best organised rider will miss one eventually for some reason. A similar story appeared about Cavendish a while back and it was no fairer then.

As an aside, does anyone know what the purpose of an OOC test of the winner immediately after the finish of a stage race is supposed to be? I assume that he'd get an IC test at the end (and ones on the day before, etc)? Is the OOC test for different stuff? Why would he have taken anything new since the end of the race? What's the idea?

I would suspect they wanted a blood measurement for the biopassport.
He probably only had urine tests since the 2nd rest day.

 

[northstar]

Somewhere the other day, I think it was a graph posted on twitter which showed a big increase in USADA testing on Horner in the last couple of years. If this is true, it would surely mean for certain that it is indeed him as rider 15 or whatever it was in the USADA report and they are acting from this.

Horner’s USADA testing stats do not seem that out of the ordinary when you compare to other rider’s.

years - 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 (up to June 30)
T. Duggan - 9, 7, 13, 6
Bookwalter - 9, 5, 13, 8
L. Euser - 2, 5, 14, 9
Horner - 7, 6, 16, 8

There is a spike in the number of tests between 2011 and 2012 and it could mean USADA is target testing certain riders including Horner. It could also mean that USADA stepped up their testing program for cycling in general and some riders have a few more tests than others.

USADA asking the Spanish anti-doping authorities to test him looks suspicious though.

 

[The Hitch]

maybe they watched the Vuelta?

lol good one

 

[Cyivel]

Vayer is currently trying to put the smackdown on Horner on twitter.

Could be BS

 

[131313]

USADA asking the Spanish anti-doping authorities to test him looks suspicious though.

That's the only way it works when you go to test a rider who's currently out of your jurisdiction. For riders who are US-based but racing in Europe, it's actually pretty common.