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When is the smackdown on Chris Horner?

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BroDeal

BroDeal

Mar 18, 2009
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Overend is like fifteen years older than Horner. How did his performance at forty compare to at thirty? What is is training like now compared to forty compared to thirty?

Tinker Juarez is another rider who raced for a very long time. As he got older he switched to endurance events. When he was forty-two and forty-four he crushed the 12 and 24 hour MTB calendar.
 
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webbie146

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BroDeal said:
Overend is like fifteen years older than Horner. How did his performance at forty compare to at thirty? What is is training like now compared to forty compared to thirty?

Tinker Juarez is another rider who raced for a very long time. As he got older he switched to endurance events. When he was forty-two and forty-four he crushed the 12 and 24 hour MTB calendar.
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Yea that's possible. As u get older u can handle a large amount of km's better then younger guys. He probably rode 1 steady pace for much of the race. You're absolute power output, explosiveness, v02max, and short efforts suffer though as u get older.

That's why it's so weird for me that Horner ownd everyone on that 17min climb :eek:
 
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webvan

Mar 11, 2009
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And they would have redacted the name of a confessed doper without even questioning him? Sounds pretty "negligent"and irresponsible to me...next thing you know the clinic will be using this as an argument that Horner is benefiting from a big coverup courtesy of Tygart!
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

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zigmeister said:
What Is Tygart and USADA waiting for if they don't have some agenda, to bring the smack down on Horner....or anybody for that matter?

If the evidence exists, now is the perfect time to set an example.
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Tygart is just riling the Lance fanboys, that is all. ;)
 
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Ferminal

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webvan said:
Exactly, that's the point I made yesterday, at the very least, if Horner had been rider #15 he would have been interviewed by USADA and likely been offered a deal he couldn't refuse, like the other guys.
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He could have been interviewed, but he was under no obligation to say anything. Aside from Lance etc who orchestrated things, there were no sanctions for those who didn't admit to USADA. One of the compelling reasons for the others to admit was the number of people aware of their activities, making a non-analytical sanction a real possibility. In Horner's case he is mentioned only once and it's simply someone communicating a discussion they had. If they couldn't say much about Horner then there was little risk to him of not talking. A six month sanction as small as it is would have been the end of his career so unless he was overwhelmed by feelings of guilt it probably wasn't a tough choice and it was not possible for a "deal he couldn't refuse" unless it involved money... Also, everyone else pretending they stopped doping in 2006 helped him as he had no association with those teams until 2008.

I thought that names were redacted in order not to "compromise" any ongoing investigations.
 
ElChingon

ElChingon

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Ferminal said:
He could have been interviewed, but he was under no obligation to say anything. Aside from Lance etc who orchestrated things, there were no sanctions for those who didn't admit to USADA. One of the compelling reasons for the others to admit was the number of people aware of their activities, making a non-analytical sanction a real possibility. In Horner's case he is mentioned only once and it's simply someone communicating a discussion they had. If they couldn't say much about Horner then there was little risk to him of not talking. A six month sanction as small as it is would have been the end of his career so unless he was overwhelmed by feelings of guilt it probably wasn't a tough choice and it was not possible for a "deal he couldn't refuse" unless it involved money... Also, everyone else pretending they stopped doping in 2006 helped him as he had no association with those teams until 2008.

I thought that names were redacted in order not to "compromise" any ongoing investigations.
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Or he was questioned on the R.D. issues and he has no honest connection to the specific questions asked at that time. Then, after further investigation the investigators were able to connect the dots that were previously not connected and can now go further into it with him.
 
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therhodeo

Apr 14, 2010
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hrotha said:
Whooooooosh.
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You think I don't understand what you're saying? I'm not Horner supporter and I very very much not a Lance apologist but your reasoning doesn't hold up. There was evidence with Lance despite most people saying there wasn't. That fact doesn't mean that the apparent lack of evidence in Horners case means that its just like Lance and there must be evidence.
 
hrotha

hrotha

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therhodeo said:
You think I don't understand what you're saying? I'm not Horner supporter and I very very much not a Lance apologist but your reasoning doesn't hold up. There was evidence with Lance despite most people saying there wasn't. That fact doesn't mean that the apparent lack of evidence in Horners case means that its just like Lance and there must be evidence.
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The key difference is we're not talking about evidence in the public domain, but about evidence USADA has access to. Even when USADA had access to a lot of that evidence, it's not as simple as having it and then acting on it right away.
 
spalco

spalco

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Merckx index said:
I saw a study, which I can't find right now, that reported a 5% decrease in V02 max per decade after the peak years, which would be late 20s. That was for endurance athletes. For non-athletes it was more like 10%.

Of course that is an average, there will be outliers, but I think it highly unlikely that anyone is excused completely from the laws of aging. And at the highest levels, even a very small decline in performance is pretty critical.
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What about other parameters - testosterone, hgh, etc?
 
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zigmeister

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therhodeo said:
You think I don't understand what you're saying? I'm not Horner supporter and I very very much not a Lance apologist but your reasoning doesn't hold up. There was evidence with Lance despite most people saying there wasn't. That fact doesn't mean that the apparent lack of evidence in Horners case means that its just like Lance and there must be evidence.
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Yes, that is my point. Tygart and USADA based the entire reasoned decision on other riders and people's testimony.

Whether he was the focus or not, or some other hidden agenda of another secret ongoing investigation (B.S.), there is no reason not to drop the hammer on Horner if the evidence is there. Just a few guys saying he doped is all they need, done. That is plenty for USADA.

So do it already.
 
Catwhoorg

Catwhoorg

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In the 'public' area there is a single rider saying he heard Rider-15 saying he used a banned substance, three years after the use.

Even for the most Kangaroo of courts that simply is not evidence.

If USADA have enough, then something will happen.

If they just have hearsay and speculation, the best they can do is increase monitoring and testing on Rider-15/Horner. Which it appears they have done.
 
131313

131313

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webvan said:
Exactly, that's the point I made yesterday, at the very least, if Horner had been rider #15 he would have been interviewed by USADA and likely been offered a deal he couldn't refuse, like the other guys.
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If you actually believe that the information on rider #15 was enough to constitute "evidence", you simply do not understand the meaning of the word. Sure, they could depose him, but he's under no obligation to admit any wrong-doing, he can simply say nothing. Given the fact that there was no leverage on him that's exactly what he'd do.
 
131313

131313

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zigmeister said:
Whether he was the focus or not, or some other hidden agenda of another secret ongoing investigation (B.S.), there is no reason not to drop the hammer on Horner if the evidence is there. Just a few guys saying he doped is all they need, done. That is plenty for USADA.

So do it already.
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Do you even believe the nonsense you wrote above? That's really all they had on Lance? really???

It's time to get over it. The whole "witch hunt" thing has grown really tired...
 
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biokemguy

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The part that I find almost more farcical than Horner's age, is his short training stint for the Vuelta. Has any rider, regardless of age (other than Contador) won a GT on such minimal training?

In Contador's case, I don't believe he was as undertrained as we are led to believe before the Giro and he's a known doper.
 
131313

131313

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biokemguy said:
The part that I find almost more farcical than Horner's age, is his short training stint for the Vuelta. Has any rider, regardless of age (other than Contador) won a GT on such minimal training?

In Contador's case, I don't believe he was as undertrained as we are led to believe before the Giro and he's a known doper.
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Compare his form in Utah vs. Nibali in Poland. There's zero comparison--he was way more fit. You should be asking that question about Nibali. Regardless of what Horner said, he was training for quite a while prior to Utah. He began training for the Vuelta at the end of June:

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...-France-chasing-form-for-Vuelta-a-Espana.aspx

He was seen in Bend training pretty regularly all summer.
 
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