Master50 said:
I suppose these are fair comments but do you think I should just ignore things that I find offensive and against all I have worked for for the last 28 years because it is a "FORUM"?
Allow me. May I have this dance?
To your question, I would offer a resounding, YES! I do think you should ignore some of these things precisely because it
is a forum. Especially if you can't see the perspective offered by
red_flander's incredibly sane response. If you can't, then perhaps forums that address these issues are not for you. I'm not being condescending—I'm totally serious. It's an internet forum. That's all it is.
Are the people who are in a position to make career and/or life-altering decisions about these things seeking advice and information from The Clinic? Or is what goes on here nothing but background noise from a dozen lunatics that are, apparently, looked down upon by other, greater social media outlets and people out there, somewhere, in the real world? Because it can't be both. (The correct answer may even be "other.")
Master50 said:
How you do anything is how you do everything. I do not believe people are morally separated from what they say here in the forum and how they treat people in life.
OK, again, it is not my intention to be condescending, but if you have spent more than the sum total of five minutes on the internet, then it is beyond my imagination as to how you could possibly adopt such a black-and-white stance.
Master50 said:
The other more complicated part is the fact that I know a lot of these riders personally.
As red_flanders pointed out, this should not be viewed as some sort of strengthening of your position. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Master50 said:
Saying things are true when you can't provide evidence can ruin a life
Since you seem to be committed to the letter of the law, and demand links for other people's claims, is there something you could provide us with that might substantiate your claim above,
as it applies to this forum?
Master50 said:
Last point is why can a person make slanderous posts about a person and get a pass just because it is a forum? The clinic has a lot of threads that might violate libel and slander laws but if it is in a cycling forum mostly restricted to hardcore cycling fans that it is some kind of protected speech? A person can make a public statement that a person is a cheater or worse without proof and it is OK. Try writing to the editor of your local paper and say the mayor in your town is a pedophile, Maybe that is not a good example but how about a liar?
You're right. It's not a good example. In fact, it's a horrible example and not at all attached to reality. You're behaving as someone who has only just discovered the internet. Social norms have changed greatly in the past ten to fifteen years due to digital technology. It used to be illegal (or at least considered to be) to do many, many things involving public exposure of others. Making audio or video recordings of many different types of live events was strictly forbidden in many circumstance. Now it's simply a given that it will occur, and most people don't even bat an eye.
How would anyone have responded twenty years ago if someone had gone to your home, taken a picture of your house, attached an overhead satellite view, provided an address, phone numbers and other personal info, and then made that same information available, around the world, to millions of people, without your permission?
Law suits, scandal, outrage...these would've been the norm. But now?
My point is, the world has changed. I can call Chris Horner a doper. See? I did it just there. Thousands of people could easily read my remark.
Will Chris Horner even repsond?
Hi, Chris! You're a doper, aren't you?
But forget about me for a minute, and forget about you (if I may), and answer me this:
If Chris Horner, at the age of nearly 102<humor> , wins a GT, and he does so while riding clean, wouldn't you then (being intimately involved with pro cycling, and all) expect to see an outpouring of support and encouragement from, oh, let's say...
Jonathan Vaughters
Christian Vande Velde
David Zabriskie
Levi Leipheimer
George Hincapie
Tyler Hamilton
Floyd Landis (sorry, I couldn't resist)
To name just a few?
I mean, for the most part, aren't those the very guys who found Jesus and stopped doping all around the same time? Tried to do their best to influence the next generation of riders to ride clear? Tried to show the world that you can ride clean and still be competitive,
and sometimes even win, in this new and glorious age of cleaner cycling?
Wouldn't Chris Horner's magnificent performance at the Vuelta have been proof-positive (no pun intended, but I'm willing to roll with it) of just what a clean rider can accomplish on bread and water, on blood, sweat and tears, now that the playing field is finally level?
He's one them! American, old, "experienced." Hip Hip Hooray! Hip Hip...
Wait a second. What was their response?
As much as you may feel informed about pro cycling based on your own personal experience, I'd be willing to bet large sums of money that you know very little about doping and pro cycling, and pro cycling and doping,
when compared to the names above.
But let's forget about all that for the moment, if you prefer.
Maybe there are other reasons for them not joining hands and trumpeting Horner's success, even though, it if were legitimate, it would prove all their supposed hard years of work for redemption of the sport they love so much had finally paid off. Forget about that.
Why, with everyone under the sun casting suspicion towards Chris Horner, are the above named gentlemen not jumping up and down with indignation and defending him?
Unless they know something we don't. Or at least some of us don't.