Where is Alberto Contador going?

[ThisFrenchGuy]

Why does everyone keep focusing on whether a team is English/American? His problems didn't stem from language, they stemmed from the relationship between Armstrong and JB. He communicated just fine and I've heard that he speaks much better English than folks realize--he just didn't do English media this year for obvious reasons.

I may give too much importance to that, but in short my impression is that nationality still means quite a bit in cycling team. But maybe I am dead wrong, and I do not claim to be an expert in cycling.

There are other elements, as how Contador cooperated with Caisse at the Dauphine, and how Valverde said he would help Contador on TdF if he could. Favours are common in cycling, but such public display looks kinda like an hint.

I do not rule out that he could join Garmin or other teams, but the most probable guess to me is Caisse.

 

[ixcucbalam]

The F1 racer has the money and the Spanish name associated with the leadership for AC.

Caisse D'epargne's sponsorship is running out next year and from velo news and other reputable sources, AC is looking for a two year deal. No way he'd race for that short of time and switch teams. He wants a team built around him and his staff.

In the most recent visit to Spain's PM, he even voiced his thoughts on the f1 racer's team as a favourable decision. No doubt as the fact that he can take all the spanish riders he wants with him (cherry picking probably).

Katousha would be an excellent choice as there are several great domestiques on the team and assistance with TTT from Ignatiev (as well as a low-end GC contendour) would be ideal. however...he would be the only one with an Iberian Passport....and there's possibly and issue with the fact that he would once again be isolated at the dinner table discussion.

we shall see wont we?

 

[jaylew]

At this point Caisse doesn't appear to be a real possibility unless they extend their sponsorship as AC won't sign for a team unless he can get at least a two year contract. People seem to be stuck on the idea that he needs to go to a Spanish team but I don't think that's going to happen.

#1 priority for him definitely appears to be a team that can help him win the Tour. Past issues or no, it had to be hard to turn down a 4-year, 4m Euro offer. After all, we're talking cycling, not the NBA.

 

[Chomsky]

You probably should read the front page.

Maybe you should as well. Contador saying he does not want to ride for Astana or not accepting ab extension does not mean Astana will release him from his contract for 2010. Astana backers seem to be quite stubborn and if they have the money to offer him an extension they may have the money to fund some sort of team next year. Leaving "The Brat" at the mercy of Vino and his Astana backers.

Contador spent 6 months questioning the integrity of his teammates and JB before this tour. It will be quite ironic and interesting to see how he behaves next year if he is left to the mercy of Vino and friends. If "the Brat" attack his team in the press like he did this year he might find himself riding the Giro and the Vuelta next year. Even if Vino lets Contador ride will the ASO let Astana ride the TDF with Contador if they plan on bringing Vino.? While Contador being on a weak team could make the 2010 a lot more competitive it could also lead to an injustice like 2008.

 

[dolophonic]

I think The Hog and Lance were the one's doing the Questioning... no?

I also think Katusha might be a dark horse... they have $ and a pretty strong team.

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe you should as well. Contador saying he does not want to ride for Astana or not accepting ab extension does not mean Astana will release him from his contract for 2010. Astana backers seem to be quite stubborn and if they have the money to offer him an extension they may have the money to fund some sort of team next year. Leaving "The Brat" at the mercy of Vino and his Astana backers.

Contador spent 6 months questioning the integrity of his teammates and JB before this tour. It will be quite ironic and interesting to see how he behaves next year if he is left to the mercy of Vino and friends. If "the Brat" attack his team in the press like he did this year he might find himself riding the Giro and the Vuelta next year. Even if Vino lets Contador ride will the ASO let Astana ride the TDF with Contador if they plan on bringing Vino.? While Contador being on a weak team could make the 2010 a lot more competitive it could also lead to an injustice like 2008.

My goodness, you really took a great big 'old hit of the bong huh?

 

[dolophonic]

What press did Contador use to "attack " Astana before the tour?
He did not make a big deal when they sent a "C" squad for Paris Nice... ( and an"A" squad to tour of Cal)
If you dont like him thats fine.
Please .... we know who are the masters of P.R. that is evident.

 

[Anonymous]

What press did Contador use to "attack " Astana before the tour?
He did not make a big deal when they sent a "C" squad for Paris Nice... ( and an"A" squad to tour of Cal)
If you dont like him thats fine.
Please .... we know who are the masters of P.R. that is evident.

Don't bother with him, he knows he's full of it.

 

[ThisFrenchGuy]

At this point Caisse doesn't appear to be a real possibility unless they extend their sponsorship as AC won't sign for a team unless he can get at least a two year contract. People seem to be stuck on the idea that he needs to go to a Spanish team but I don't think that's going to happen.

#1 priority for him definitely appears to be a team that can help him win the Tour. Past issues or no, it had to be hard to turn down a 4-year, 4m Euro offer. After all, we're talking cycling, not the NBA.

I would be pretty surprised if the former Banesto was to sunk with its sponsor without finding another if need be?
Wouldn't it just be easier for the supposed Alonso-Sponsor to become partners or take over the sponsorship instead of creating their own team for scratch?

 

[Chomsky]

What press did Contador use to "attack " Astana before the tour?
He did not make a big deal when they sent a "C" squad for Paris Nice... ( and an"A" squad to tour of Cal)
If you dont like him thats fine.
Please .... we know who are the masters of P.R. that is evident.

He spent 6 months prior to the tour questioning the integrity of JB and the riders. Questioning who they will ride for and stating he did not trust them. He then went on a please release me form the team crusade. Not a very smart way of making friends and earning the trust of your teammates. Even dumber when one of them is vindictive and holds a grudge like LA. I will not defend LA as he has said some unprofessional immature things recently on Twitter but I doubt there would have ever been a problem between AC and his teammates at least publicly if AC had not attacked JB and the team for 6 months in the press. What the obsessive nutballs in both the LA hate and Love Clubs will never admit is that its possible to believe that both LA and AC are bad guys. It does not have to be a competition or an either/or. It is possible to look at both of their actions objectively without having to join either of the fan clubs. That is the problem that gets lost here on these forums. There is so much venom and hate on these forums that these fan club members end up religiously supporting one of the two while vehemently hating the other. Which generally ends up chilling any possible discussion as it becomes all about these posters ego. But back to AC. One can only imagine how much worse he will react to perceiving himself as 2nd on the team to Vino.

Back on topic, despite what the Contador fan club (otherwise known as the obsessed with LA hate club) will tell you it's not up to Contador whether or not he rides for Astana next year. It's up to Vino and the Astana backers. AC can tell the press over and over that he will not ride for Astana next year but its simply not his choice. They have to release him or fold as a team. If they have $16 million to offer AC in an extension they may have enough money to fund some sort of team and afford AC's salary. If that is the case why would they release the best rider in the world?

 

[Bagster]

Caisse D Epargne. I just see him working better in a Spanish team, Especially after his experience in an American/Kazak team. The one year remaining on the sponsorship may be a problem though.

Would be interesting to see if Garmin would take him.

Garmin wouldn't take him. Too much risk to their ride clean image. He will go to Spain, most likely Caisse.

 

[Publicus]

He spent 6 months prior to the tour questioning the integrity of JB and the riders. Questioning who they will ride for and stating he did not trust them. He then went on a please release me form the team crusade. Not a very smart way of making friends and earning the trust of your teammates. Even dumber when one of them is vindictive and holds a grudge like LA. I will not defend LA as he has said some unprofessional immature things recently on Twitter but I doubt there would have ever been a problem between AC and his teammates at least publicly if AC had not attacked JB and the team for 6 months in the press. One can only imagine how much worse he will react to perceiving himself as 2nd on the team to Vino.

But back on topic despite what the Contador fan club (otherwise known as the obsessed with LA hate club) will tell you it's not up to Contador whether or not he rides for Astana next year. It's up to Vino and the Astana backers. AC can tell the press over and over that he will not ride for Astana next year but its simply not his choice. They have to release him or fold as a team. If they have $16 million to offer AC in an extension they may have enough money to fund some sort of team and afford AC's salary. If that is the case why would they release the best rider in the world?

Who knew you had a copy of Contador's contract! What kind of perks was he able to negotiate? Is his salary paid monthly, bi-monthly? 15th and 30th? Can he earn bonuses? How much extra did he get paid for winning the TdF? Who signed on behalf of Astana? Vino? Also, are you saying there is a no buyout clause? That Astana will physically drag him from Pinto to ride in races next year?

Maybe you could just post a pdf link or something so we can all be as informed as you as to what is actually going to happen with AC's contract? Thanks in advance.

 

[Bagster]

He spent 6 months prior to the tour questioning the integrity of JB and the riders. Questioning who they will ride for and stating he did not trust them. He then went on a please release me form the team crusade. Not a very smart way of making friends and earning the trust of your teammates. Even dumber when one of them is vindictive and holds a grudge like LA. I will not defend LA as he has said some unprofessional immature things recently on Twitter but I doubt there would have ever been a problem between AC and his teammates at least publicly if AC had not attacked JB and the team for 6 months in the press. One can only imagine how much worse he will react to perceiving himself as 2nd on the team to Vino.

But back on topic despite what the Contador fan club (otherwise known as the obsessed with LA hate club) will tell you it's not up to Contador whether or not he rides for Astana next year. It's up to Vino and the Astana backers. AC can tell the press over and over that he will not ride for Astana next year but its simply not his choice. They have to release him or fold as a team. If they have $16 million to offer AC in an extension they may have enough money to fund some sort of team and afford AC's salary. If that is the case why would they release the best rider in the world?

You a making the unwarranted assumption that AC does not have an 'out' clause in his contract. Given that he was signed on by JB I would be very surprised if his contract did not have an ability for him to leave if the circumstances or makeup of the team changed significantly. The reason that they are offering him 16 Mill is an indication that he does have such an out clause.

He will not be riding for Astana next year.

 

[Chomsky]

You a making the unwarranted assumption that AC does not have an 'out' clause in his contract. Given that he was signed on by JB I would be very surprised if his contract did not have an ability for him to leave if the circumstances or makeup of the team changed significantly. The reason that they are offering him 16 Mill is an indication that he does have such an out clause.

He will not be riding for Astana next year.

Valid point if there is an out clause. But we have not heard about any such out clause and if Contador had one why would he not have activated it or said he is going to activate it. We have heard from him how he plans to not to ride for Astana next year but no mention of any such clause. As much as Contador likes to talk I am sure he would be talking about this out clause non stop if he had one. Without any such clause why would Astana want to release him. Astana seems like the most logical destination for him until they either fold or decide they do not want him. Absent any such out clause the cards are in Vino and Astana's hands. But if he did move on Garmin seems like by far the best team for him especially considering the rumors of his agreement with them if Astana folded back in June. Give him close to equal footing in the TTT and he would seem unbeatable.

Edit: AC's brothers statement today might end your theory of any out clause. At the least it makes it seem very unlikely as he admit's there is year left on the contract and he is seeking for a solution to get out of it. If there was an out available to AC it stands to reason he would not need to have to find a solution. Again the cards here seem to be in Vino and Astana's hands.

"We have nothing against the Kazakhs, on the contrary, but now we need to think seriously about Alberto. Things are too complicated at the moment for us to continue in such conditions. We just need to find a solution for the year left in Alberto's contract."

 

[Publicus]

You a making the unwarranted assumption that AC does not have an 'out' clause in his contract. Given that he was signed on by JB I would be very surprised if his contract did not have an ability for him to leave if the circumstances or makeup of the team changed significantly. The reason that they are offering him 16 Mill is an indication that he does have such an out clause.

He will not be riding for Astana next year.

Exactly! If he was locked into the contract there would be no need to offer him such a rich extension. No one is going to be able to offer him that kind of money, so either they were dumb enough to actually negotiate against themself or AC can walk. I'm betting on the latter.

 

[Winterfold]

Caisse

I am amazed Garmin are even entertaining the thought, while he is clearly the best GC rider in the peloton there are just too many doubts even to no nothings like me. Unless Vaughters talks the talk but dont walk etc

I would have thought Caisse was a great choice - Valverde can concentrate on classics and shorter stage races and AB can go for Tour/Giro/Vuelta as it suits him, Spanish team, more relaxed attitude

Given the way he rode with Valverde in the Dauphin the only thing I am surprised about is that he did not change sooner.

 

[ThisFrenchGuy]

As much as Contador likes to talk I am sure he would be talking about this out clause non stop if he had one.

Smoking gun!
We all know how much riders likes to speak of their contracts.

An out clause could be subjected to many conditions: dates, money issues, confidentiality.

 

[Publicus]

I am amazed Garmin are even entertaining the thought, while he is clearly the best GC rider in the peloton there are just too many doubts even to no nothings like me. Unless Vaughters talks the talk but dont walk etc

I would have thought Caisse was a great choice - Valverde can concentrate on classics and shorter stage races and AB can go for Tour/Giro/Vuelta as it suits him, Spanish team, more relaxed attitude

Given the way he rode with Valverde in the Dauphin the only thing I am surprised about is that he did not change sooner.

If Contador is as radioactive as you imply, why would ANY team sign him? He's going to get caught, so why risk/jeopardize your program being excluded from the TdF or other major events?

 

[Chomsky]

Smoking gun!
We all know how much riders likes to speak of their contracts.

An out clause could be subjected to many conditions: dates, money issues, confidentiality.

AC's brothers statement (quoted below) today might end any theory of an out clause. At the least it makes it seem very unlikely as he admits there is a year left on the contract and he is seeking for a solution to get out of it. If there was an out available to AC it stands to reason he would not need to have to find a solution. Again the cards here seem to be in Vino and Astana's hands. If he wants to join a team Astana needs to fold or release him first. But if it happens Garmin seems like the most logical destination. Garmin wants him and joining them would greatly increase his chances next year.

"We have nothing against the Kazakhs, on the contrary, but now we need to think seriously about Alberto. Things are too complicated at the moment for us to continue in such conditions. We just need to find a solution for the year left in Alberto's contract."

 

[Hugh Januss]

Valid point if there is an out clause. But we have not heard about any such out clause and if Contador had one why would he not have activated it or said he is going to activate it. We have heard from him how he plans to not to ride for Astana next year but no mention of any such clause. As much as Contador likes to talk I am sure he would be talking about this out clause non stop if he had one. Without any such clause why would Astana want to release him. Astana seems like the most logical destination for him until they either fold or decide they do not want him. Absent any such out clause the cards are in Vino and Astana's hands. But if he did move on Garmin seems like by far the best team for him especially considering the rumors of his agreement with them if Astana folded back in June. Give him close to equal footing in the TTT and he would seem unbeatable.

"The riders contracts are with Bruyneel's management company" I think I have read that at least 20 times on this forum and from enough different sources that my inner sceptic is inclined to believe it is true. If Astana does't intend to deal with Bruyneel next year then Astana doesn't have a contract with Contador, Bruyneel does.
I have a feeling Cotador won't have any trouble getting out of his current contract, so he is esentially a free agent at this point. No way he would sign with Astana, they have already showed their true colors by shutting off the money when the didn't like the way things were going. Still to turn down 4 mil per shows he has some good options in the works.
Of course all of this contract talk is just conjecture on any of our parts, because none of us has seen a copy of any contract.

 

[ThisFrenchGuy]

AC's brothers statement (quoted below) today might end any theory of an out clause. At the least it makes it seem very unlikely as he admits there is a year left on the contract and he is seeking for a solution to get out of it. If there was an out available to AC it stands to reason he would not need to have to find a solution. Again the cards here seem to be in Vino and Astana's hands. If he wants to join a team Astana needs to fold or release him first.

I don't think I said an "out clause" was "I walk out whenever I want". I mentioned conditions. Contracts can quickly become very complicated. Especially contracts for riders that were brought from Discovery Channel where Bruyneel was in charge of the riders's gigs via his management company but merged into another existing team with a shady background of being the poster boys of an authoritarian regime. I have honestly no idea of the legal nightmare it was for the lawyers to come up with a working structure.

You're the one that came into the thread with definitive assertions, though (and that charming statement that discussing his possible whereabouts was being part of his fan club).

 

[usedtobefast]

i would guess no garmin and more to caisse. it just looks like a better fit. they are both good squads, but spanish speakers versus non spanish speakers. he has been to that rodeo before.

 

[Anonymous]

What if AC can't get out of his Astana contract. A good portion of the horsepower has left the barn leaving AC with.... Vino.

THAT might be interesting.

 

[Winterfold]

Publicus - I guess the corollary is that maybe Vaughters thinks he is clean or can win clean with Garmin and will take a chance on that.

He is clearly the most gifted and talented bike rider around, so maybe I should silence my inner cynic.

Garmin + Contador (with or without Brad) is a pretty scary team if they decide to go all out for GC.

 

[Chomsky]

You're the one that came into the thread with definitive assertions,

Not exactly sure what you are saying here? Are you saying I have no right to post in this thread or are you saying that when I say Astana is a possibility I am somehow declaring that that is the only way it is?

If its the latter of course not. Rather I was trying to bring a logical structure, offer a different point of view and point out that before AC can join another team he has to get out of his contract with Astana. Absent an out clause that would mean Astana would have to release him. Hence, why I asked, why would Astana want to release the best cyclist in the world? They have shown the desire to keep and extend him. They appear to have the money and they have shown themselves to be quite stubborn and set in their ways. AC's brother acknowledges the contract and seems to imply that it is a contract that will be difficult to get out of. I am not sure why that would be considered anymore assertive than any other post predicting where he might end up? Like one other poster stated this is all conjecture. We use available information and attempt to build an argument to support our conclusion. Nothing less, nothing more, simply opinions. It does not mean any of us are right. Nor am I saying other predictions are any less right than mine. I am not sure what the disagreement is.

Now many people just state an opinion with no supporting argument. I try not to do that. Maybe that is where you have a problem with my opinions. While I understand its nice to just post an opinion but for the most part I disagree with making a conclusion without any supporting argument. If you look at most news and opinions in the US they often lack reasoning and thought. Opinions based on emotion with no logic or supporting arguments. Just shiny sound bytes designed to appeal to emotions. Most message boards are like this and CN is no different. Lots of opinions, little thought, little logic, no supporting arguments, but lots of emotion. Sadly these types of arguments chills actual discussion. Its been particularly bad on this forum where a handful of Lance haters/AC lovers post frequently and loudly on these forums. I have seen these very loud people tell other people who disagree with them to leave, tell other posters they have no right to post here if they are not a senior member, call them names and all kinds of juvenile conduct. The end result is a degradation of the forums. People that want a more balanced forum simply leave the forums which ends up in a vicious cycle making the forums more dominated by the loud few while weeding out anyone with different thoughts or opinions. I have read lots of complaints from people the last few weeks saying they have no desire to read or post here all because of a few loud mouthed few.

Again I am not sure your point other than that you do not like me trying to support any a conclusion with an actual argument. Or it could simply be you do not like my conclusion and this is your way of showing dissatisfaction with that conclusion.